Power Weapon or Power Fist?

[bmcsw007]

Currently my Assault Marines Sergeant has a power fist. I am thinking of changing it to an ax (Power Weapon). I've read up on both the Power Fist and a normal Power Weapon, but I am wondering what everyone elses thoughts and view are. Which is better?

[Bewlay]

I have two assault squads, one with a power axe (coincidence?) and a power fist and TBH the power fist is more useful.

 

Although the PW is cheaper, the PF allows your squad to get rid of a character in combat because of ID also I feel it's more reliable then a Melta Bomb when destroying tanks, most tanks have rear armour of 11-or less so the more attacks you throw at it the more likely you'll get rid of it.

[Lestat]

Every one of my squads has a powerfist in it. My advice, never leave the Chapter Monastary without one!

[Quixus]

The drawback of the Power Fist is that it hits at I1. To put it on a sergeant instead of an Independent Character is a good Idea, because the Sergeant cannot be singled out in Close Combat to be killed before he lands his attacks.

[bmcsw007]

Ok, after reading more and staring at my Assault Squad, I gave the Sergeant an axe (Power Weapon). As long as I wound with it, an enemy can't stop it. I'm going to try it for a while.

[thade]

This should probably been in Tactica Astartes and not PCA. <3

 

Each of my squads has a Power Fist: it's very high odds of at least one kill at I1; it can't be singled out in combat but has a chance at inflicting Instant Death on T4 ICs that it gets into base-to-base with; it means the squad can take on a walker or open up a tank if it absolutely has to.

[chromedog]

The drawback of the Power Fist is that it hits at I1. To put it on a sergeant instead of an Independent Character is a good Idea, because the Sergeant cannot be singled out in Close Combat to be killed before he lands his attacks.

 

The other drawback is no +1A for two cc weapons. Means your sgt hits with the same number of attacks as the rest of his squad - who do have the +1 (1A base, +1 for 2 ccw vs 2A base).

[DarkGuard]

Keep the power fist. The loss of initiative isn't much when you have 9 other bodies, it has less attacks yes but those attacks wound better, and the fist can also deal with more units than the power weapon. The power weapon can only really do infantry, the fist can do infantry, MCs and tanks. All in all, the fist is a better investment, that or the thunder hammer.

 

If you only have 5 bodies in the squad still take the fist, but the weapon becomes a little better as you strike in initiative order and are therefore less likely to lose the Sergeant to attacks before he can swing.

[greatcrusade08]

pretty much echo darkguard, however have you considered lightening claws?

[Brother Nihm]

A power weapon is nice and all but the fist can hurt anything, therein lies its beauty.

[Vissah]

Power Fist all the way.

 

Every Sergeant in your army should have a Power Fist, I know my guys all carry one.

The Fist has saved and won battle for me so many times I never leave home without them.

[Captain Idaho]

Although I don't put them in every squad, I use a power fist on my aggressive moving Tacticals (soon to have 1 Sternguard unit).

 

A power weapon on a model with 3 attacks (4) on the charge at an average WS and strength of 4, will rarely net you many kills. A power fist on the other hand, only has to hit and it will do some damage (unless you suffer from 1-itus).

 

Personally I think power weapons on Tactical Marine Sergeants (or equivilient stats lines) should be 10 points to make up for the fact they suck so badly...

[DarkGuard]

Power Fist all the way.

 

Every Sergeant in your army should have a Power Fist, I know my guys all carry one.

The Fist has saved and won battle for me so many times I never leave home without them.

 

I disagree with it being on every Sergeant. Highly disagree with it. On Tactical squads for example you are paying for most of two Marines for a couple of S8 attacks that ignore armour. On a unit that sucks badly in close combat. Tactical squads are shooty units, flexible shooty units that can hit from range or up close, and they are especially good against enemy infantry. But in combat they only do well against the weaklings, like Guard and Tau, and I suppose the non combat Nid bugs etc. And against these things they don't need a fist to win. And against the big things, a fist won't do much good anyway as they'll still lose. In the end, a fist is not worth the 25pts for Tactical Marines, as it does little to increase their combat potential. And considering most people take two Tactical squads, that's 50pts on slightly upgrading a suboptimal unit for combat. Those points could get you a melta attack bike, or half a Typhoon, or extra armour on three Rhinos, or just a Rhino. Power fists are fine on Assault squads of all variety, Scouts and Sternguard, but I wouldn't put them on anything else.

[jeffersonian000]

I tend to put a Power Fist or Hammer in every squad that can have one, as being flexible to me means being able to handle any issue that pops up with the resources I have in play. Can't rightly assault that Dreadnought or Tank and expect to win if I don't have a can openner at hand, even if its a squad that should never in its right mind assault anything ever. Sometimes you just need to do what needs to be done in order to turn a loss into a draw, or a draw into a win. One of the beautiful things about my GK's is the ability to take 1 hammer per 5 squad members, so that if I decide combat squading is the key to a win, all of my units can handle whatever it is I need them to handle (every 5-man needs a "tank").

 

SJ

[DarkGuard]

I tend to put a Power Fist or Hammer in every squad that can have one, as being flexible to me means being able to handle any issue that pops up with the resources I have in play. Can't rightly assault that Dreadnought or Tank and expect to win if I don't have a can openner at hand, even if its a squad that should never in its right mind assault anything ever. Sometimes you just need to do what needs to be done in order to turn a loss into a draw, or a draw into a win. One of the beautiful things about my GK's is the ability to take 1 hammer per 5 squad members, so that if I decide combat squading is the key to a win, all of my units can handle whatever it is I need them to handle (every 5-man needs a "tank").

 

SJ

 

Grey Knights are a very different prospect when it comes to hammers. The unit, while not the best unit in combat, is still better than Tactical squads thanks to Hammerhand and power weapons as standard, plus more shots when charging in with their storm bolters. In the end, S10 daemonhammers for a very small points cost is a no brainer and rightly should be put in every unit, but that doesn't reflect on the other power armoured armies at all.

[Vissah]

Power Fist all the way.

 

Every Sergeant in your army should have a Power Fist, I know my guys all carry one.

The Fist has saved and won battle for me so many times I never leave home without them.

 

I disagree with it being on every Sergeant. Highly disagree with it. On Tactical squads for example you are paying for most of two Marines for a couple of S8 attacks that ignore armour. On a unit that sucks badly in close combat. Tactical squads are shooty units, flexible shooty units that can hit from range or up close, and they are especially good against enemy infantry. But in combat they only do well against the weaklings, like Guard and Tau, and I suppose the non combat Nid bugs etc. And against these things they don't need a fist to win. And against the big things, a fist won't do much good anyway as they'll still lose. In the end, a fist is not worth the 25pts for Tactical Marines, as it does little to increase their combat potential. And considering most people take two Tactical squads, that's 50pts on slightly upgrading a suboptimal unit for combat. Those points could get you a melta attack bike, or half a Typhoon, or extra armour on three Rhinos, or just a Rhino. Power fists are fine on Assault squads of all variety, Scouts and Sternguard, but I wouldn't put them on anything else.

 

Sorry I forgot to mention that I play Chaos Marines who are good troops in CC and therefor I give all my Sergeants a PF.

[DarkGuard]

Fair enough, see above then :)

 

Different armies means different things. Obviously armies with good units for close combat benefit from the power fist, while armies with units that aren't so good don't really benefit.

[Chengar Qordath]

Tossing in another vote for the Fist. A Power Fist adds flexibility to unit, and makes it much harder to tarpit. A power weapon doesn't add much beyond killing infantry a little bit better.

[spartan249]

The few times I do run a tac squad, I put a fist on them. Besides fluff reasons, they increase what little damage output the tactical squad has in melee by quite a bit in difficult situations, especially those involving armor. It's very useful, especially if that squad is going to be in harm's way often.

[Gearhead]

I put fists in my units. Loosing doesn't matter when you're stubborn. Another reason I do this is because of Initiative and wound allocation. If I'm swinging at the same time as the rest of the squad, you better believe my opponent'll start stacking power weapon wounds on the same guys to avoid casualties. With the fist, that's not an issue. Doesn't swing with the squad, three hits max, all of which cause instant death. But my area sees a lot of orks, so that's actually a useful facet of the fist. If all you see is mech, then maybe you'd be better off with a combi-melta. Since this is an assault squad arge though, I'd go fist every time.

[jeffersonian000]

I tend to put a Power Fist or Hammer in every squad that can have one, as being flexible to me means being able to handle any issue that pops up with the resources I have in play. Can't rightly assault that Dreadnought or Tank and expect to win if I don't have a can openner at hand, even if its a squad that should never in its right mind assault anything ever. Sometimes you just need to do what needs to be done in order to turn a loss into a draw, or a draw into a win. One of the beautiful things about my GK's is the ability to take 1 hammer per 5 squad members, so that if I decide combat squading is the key to a win, all of my units can handle whatever it is I need them to handle (every 5-man needs a "tank").

 

SJ

 

Grey Knights are a very different prospect when it comes to hammers. The unit, while not the best unit in combat, is still better than Tactical squads thanks to Hammerhand and power weapons as standard, plus more shots when charging in with their storm bolters. In the end, S10 daemonhammers for a very small points cost is a no brainer and rightly should be put in every unit, but that doesn't reflect on the other power armoured armies at all.

 

As GK's don't get Power Fists, the part at the beginning where I said I tend to put Power Fists in my squads was a reference to both my Marine and Sister armies (in the ladies' case its Eviscerators). Having a "pocket fist" is a must, I think, when you can afford it.

 

SJ

[DarkGuard]

As GK's don't get Power Fists, the part at the beginning where I said I tend to put Power Fists in my squads was a reference to both my Marine and Sister armies (in the ladies' case its Eviscerators). Having a "pocket fist" is a must, I think, when you can afford it.

 

SJ

 

My bad. I pretty much interpret fists and hammers (including Daemonhammers) as pretty much the same, as they have the same or a similar function in a squad.