Brotherhood Champion

[Gentlemanloser]

/salute

[the jeske]

Also, LC terminators only have three attacks on the charge, not four (again, with the presence of the banner).

but they re-roll all to hits and to wounds thats better then +1A .

 

LC armed terminator units don't go at I10, don't have Force Weapons (that can potentially activate without a roll), and can't get to S6 without batting an eye lash

they also dont cost 900pts . I fail to see where the problem is . you would want the combination to cost 900pts+ and suck 0_o? where would be the sense in that . the unit doesnt make much sense anyway it is very random and will have problems with countering fast moving stuff [and you dont fit long range support in to the list unless you play in the US] . force weapons again dont matter unless your taking out multi wound models[good luck with catching those in hth as most are faster then paladins and those that arent are nid deathstars]. same with i10 . when is it important ? when you charge an archon and his bodyguard or a unit of harlis , all those units are faster then paladins[and any other termis too no difference here] so how did they get the charge [and if its against eldar how sure can you be that the power actualy worked].

 

 

 

He makes sense as an HQ insofar as variety, necessary limitations on list composition options, and the fact he's a melee Champion of the one army reputed to be the best in hand-to-hand combat.

but how does something , that has replacment [better ones] at no matter how many points you play , bring any variety to the codex ? its like saying that the BA cpt brings more options to the codex when there is absolutly no way he can be used.

 

also what does fluff reputation of units have anything to do with list building ?

[thade]

also what does fluff reputation of units have anything to do with list building ?

For me? Quite a bit. I don't field non-fluffy lists, even at Ard Boyz. You know, the whole "do something because it's cool, not because of a marginal estimated advantage gain"-thing that some of us ramble on about.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I think the BC is a good deal for the points. If you are playing a small game he is good to go and can ride in a rhino or razorback. The old codex was very limited in terms of actual Grey Knight choices for an HQ.

 

G :mellow:

[thade]

I think the BC is a good deal for the points. If you are playing a small game he is good to go and can ride in a rhino or razorback. The old codex was very limited in terms of actual Grey Knight choices for an HQ.

If by this you mean "limited in terms of actual PAGK choices for an HQ," you are very much on the money. What other GK heroes in the dex are in PA and have the IC rule? None that come to my mind.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

You couldnt do that before. Everyone wants him to be a monster but he fills a specific role for fluffy bunnies. :D

 

G <_<

[boreas]

Also, LC terminators only have three attacks on the charge, not four (again, with the presence of the banner).

 

Why? He has 2 base attack and a pair of similar special and is charging for a total of 4, no?

 

Phil

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

So five with the banner .

 

G :devil:

[Valerian]

Thanks for the feedback on my hypothetical. I'm actually considering the responses as I plan out an eventual revision of my old Fandex. I might even get around to finishing it before 6th Edition is released.

 

Valerian

[thade]

Also, LC terminators only have three attacks on the charge, not four (again, with the presence of the banner).

 

Why? He has 2 base attack and a pair of similar special and is charging for a total of 4, no?

 

Phil

Ah, right, of course. My mistake, thank you. <3

[boreas]

NP, I just feared I might have been cheating all this time :P

 

BTW, no matter the downsides, I just feel Crowe is better than the basic champion. +1WS, +1W, +1Ini, unlocks Purifiers as troops and Cleansing Flame are worth 50 pts, even with the loss of Force Weapon and IC. Just hide him behind a vehicle or inside a ring of GKs (so he doesn't get assaulted) and counter-charge anything. Hordes get cleased (he then turtles with blade shield and proceed to win combat and run down the unit). Big annoying things (MCs, IC,) bring him down and get dragged to the Warp 60% of the time...

 

Phil

[Inquisitor Fox]

The Brotherhood Champion has lots of uses, they just don't show up in a direct statline comparison to Crowe. Where they show up is in consideration of overall army synergy.

 

The Brotherhood Champion is power-armored and an IC. This means he has the ability to ride in any transport (including Rhinos and Razorbacks) where the other HQ choices (bar an Inquisitor) do not. If you are planning on an MSU style approach he warrents consideration as he can hitch a ride in a Razorback. He fits easier in a Storm Raven (and can be joined to a unit along with say, a Techpriest) or Land Raider, although those transports can also take a Terminator armored character.

 

He also does more to boost the power of a squad he is joined to than other IC's (similar to the evidence I presented the other day about a simple Ecclesiarchy Priest boosting the power of even a Battle Sisters squad). While a Librarian is useful, they're not necessarily a must have... there is a lot to be said for a combination of say, Inquisitor and Brotherhood Champion joining a unit of PAGK and being airdropped by Storm Raven along with a close combat Dreadnought and Purifiers, then having two squads of Terminators or something deep strike nearby for support (or a second Storm Raven). It's about more than just their statline, it's about how your army works and performs as a whole entity. Gestalt people.. :(

[Gentlemanloser]

He also does more to boost the power of a squad he is joined to than other IC's

 

I'd think an Inquisitor with a full set of 'nades is a better force multiplier. :(

[Inquisitor Fox]

Brotherhood Champion

Xenos Inquisitor w/ forceweapon&hammerhand, rad grenades, psychotroke grenades

10 purifiers w/ daemonhammer, 2 incinerators, 7 halberds, psybolt ammo

 

total: 464 points and still fits in a Storm Raven.

 

Now tell me what realistically is going to stand up to all of that charging at them? :(

 

Edit: note, I didn't use all the special weapons of the Purifiers... you could throw on 2 more incinerators on there, but after a while... what's the point? It's one heck of a power armored deathstar that most folks wouldn't be expecting. Leaves plenty of points for said Storm Raven, two or three troops choices, as well as another heavy support of some type.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Nice little unit there. :(

 

G :(

[boreas]

My feeling is that most GK squads don't benefit that much from the regular BC. A squad of purifiers already dishes out enough damage when assaulting (especially if you consider the assault weapons and cleasing flame). GKSS are better off not assaulting. Paladins benefit more from the banner.

 

Of course, you might pile up everything in a deathstar unit, but I find this pratice pretty much hit or miss. Adding a 100pts to and already expensive unit feels heavy. I just can't see not going the extra 50pts and change my army across the board.

 

Guess it just fall down to personnal playstyle ;)

 

Phil

[Gentlemanloser]

Brotherhood Champion

Xenos Inquisitor w/ forceweapon&hammerhand, rad grenades, psychotroke grenades

10 purifiers w/ daemonhammer, 2 incinerators, 7 halberds, psybolt ammo

 

total: 464 points and still fits in a Storm Raven.

 

Now tell me what realistically is going to stand up to all of that charging at them?

 

How about;

 

Libby (Quickening, MoT): 160

9 x Puri, 9 x NFF: 261

OX Inq, Rad, Psycho: 55

 

Total: 476

 

For 39, Strength 6, Initiative 10 Force Weapon attacks that ID T4! ;) (The Inq can go fish, he's only there for the 'nades!)

[Inquisitor Fox]

A very valid approach unless you want to sweeping advance :lol: Honestly, the new Grey Knight Codex has no bad builds really... it's just whichever way you want to roll.

 

I figured 2 incinerators and 18 storm bolter shots, a token pistol, then Purifying Flame, then 21 I6 (S6 with 2 instances of Hammerhand) halberds, the Brotherhood Champion and his mojo at I5 (S6), then 5 force weapon attacks at I4 (S5), and 6 "regular" attacks at S4 with rerolls on all the melee to hits would be sufficient ;) I mean with rerolls and ignoring the Brotherhood Champions own attacks, 32 attacks goes from 10.5/2.5/3 hits to 15.75/3.75/4.5 hits (a fairly significant margin) which is a total of 24 hits overall plus the Brotherhood Champion's variable number... this being post Purifying Flame too. Technically about as many hits on average as your example, not counting whatever the Brotherhood Champion rocks out, and not counting Purifying Flame (As it looks like your example used the Purifiers for Hammerhand).

 

In any event... well, the Inquisition and Grey Knights are lucky in that there are now a bazillion combinations of effectiveness, some of which definitely can include the Brotherhood Champion if you do it right ;)

[boreas]

In any event... well, the Inquisition and Grey Knights are lucky in that there are now a bazillion combinations of effectiveness, some of which definitely can include the Brotherhood Champion if you do it right :D

 

Amen to that... I'm optimizing a list for a tournament right now, and I hate how I must copy/paste units in order to be "effective" :sweat:

 

Phil

[Inquisitor lok]

I play several amries (Grey Knights being one of them). I Think that one of the best things that you can do with him is to have:

 

1 brotherhood champian

 

1 librarian with the teleport spell

 

1 10 man squad (what ever floats you boat)

 

Leave the librarian in the center of the table and jump around with the Champion and squad. Whenever they get into trouble teleport them back to the Librarian.

 

Sorry to be brief ... time to got to dinner

[Red Lost Soldier]

I ran a BC for a while. The re rolls greatly benefit any WS4 unit, which can let down a combat at a critical moment (usually the charge) with a bad roll. Also you can mitigate the common hidden fist by moving the BC closest to the PF sergeant in the movement phase before the charge. Pop the defensive stance and watch your squad roll over his squad. Enemy IC/MC's hate to see a BC on the table because he can actually make it to combat, unlike Crowe. I think he definitely needs a transport, preferrably a LR in order to get the charge and make the most of the Titan's Herald ability. As noted before he multiplies force while not restricting sweeping advances.

 

Also a neat little aside, he gives LD10 and ATSKNF to units like DCA/Crusaders as long as he stays alive, along with hammerhand and his usual rerolls.

 

One wound really lets him down though, it's the biggest issue I had with him and why I went onto other HQs. That and I went footslogging so without a transport he is not really effective. A personal teleporter option would have been full of win.

[Captain Aradiel]

I for one thing the Brotherhood champ is totally broken!

 

-in one battle he takes out Sanguinor (275pts) not by hitting him at all but by DYING and then hitting him. -removed from game! W-T-F lame with NO saves on a eternal warrior with 3 wounds..

 

- In another Apocoplypse battle the GK players sneaks him close to a Warhound titan! - and subsequently dies to the terminators at its base - BUT as the RAW goes he may select ANY one model he´s in base to base contact with and since the warhound has not moved auto-hits it! since there is a Specific Titan rule that does not allow it to be removed from the game -it suffers d3 structure points instead - he rolls 6 and the titan is destroyed!!

 

W-T-F did he throw is sword in a magical arc and kill the Moderati or some ;) like that!

 

NO 100 pts Model should EVER be able to inflect that kind of dmmage on a 750 pts model!

OR any Eternal warrior for that matter. If there was ++ saves for it NO problem- but the NO SAVE allowed, kill any model (like LR) is BROKEN!

[Gentlemanloser]

Lucas the Trickster says "Hai!".

[Morollan]

You need to be careful what you engage a BC with. If you're in an assault that can be tough due to defender reacts and pile in moves so you need to keep an eye on where BC's are and if possible avoid them with any of your big ICs.

 

With the titan I'm afraid that was just a lack of concentration on the part of the titan's player. It should be simple enough to ensure that you don't have models so close to the titan that an assaulting model can get into base contact with both the unit and the titan. Bad luck there. Saying that, can you approach within 1" of an enemy model that isn't engaged in the assault?

[Oiad]

One of the few elements not yet mentioned that I would have liked to have seen on the BC is that you can choose to trade normal attacks for his stances rather than being forced to pick one. I do find Blade Shield useful but the specificity the other two stances means they rarely see as much action, whereas two/three normal attacks would easily find their place.

 

Brotherhood Champion

Xenos Inquisitor w/ forceweapon&hammerhand, rad grenades, psychotroke grenades

10 purifiers w/ daemonhammer, 2 incinerators, 7 halberds, psybolt ammo

 

total: 464 points and still fits in a Storm Raven.

 

Now tell me what realistically is going to stand up to all of that charging at them?

 

How about;

 

Libby (Quickening, MoT): 160

9 x Puri, 9 x NFF: 261

OX Inq, Rad, Psycho: 55

 

Total: 476

 

For 39, Strength 6, Initiative 10 Force Weapon attacks that ID T4! :sweat: (The Inq can go fish, he's only there for the 'nades!)

Stop me if I'm wrong but if Inquisitor NicolePyykkonen's unit is doing the assaulting then surely that means you can't benefit from Quickening (err, Quicksilver right?) and that as her unit is equipped with Psyk-out grenades she'd be the one I10'ing your GKs instead?

 

EDIT - Corrected member's name.