Wolves Unite!

[Grimtooth]

We are pretty much the dominant forum here at the B&C and by far the most active. In most sections I have seen threads flounder for days if not weeks on the front page and here so many topics and discussions are always pushing the page counts and threads up and beyond.

 

Based on this observation and what seems to be a pretty decent sense of comradiere between us, even those of us that disagree on issues, I want to propose something that will make our gaming life as Wolves infinitely better in my opinion;

 

I would like to organize and push for an email campaign to Games Workshop that will address what we as SW are pressing gaming issues. All I would ask for is a 2 week commitment of the members here to send out a minimum of one email a day that consists of a form letter that a majority of us consider to be pressing issues that need to be addressed.

 

So what I see are my two main issues:

 

So my first issue came after a moderator funded and enforced vacation from DakkaDakka. I came back to see that once again a JAWS needing a to roll hit thread had spiraled into 6 pages or so. With the release of the new corebook FAQ, GW has said that PSA require a to hit roll. In conjunction with the rule on page 50 of the core rulebook that states that exceptions to the general rules will be in the codexes, the battle lines have been drawn as to whether or not JAWS requires a to hit roll or if it is a codex exception to the general rules.

 

1. Does Jaws of the World Wolf require a to hit roll as a PSA or is it considered a codex exception to the general rules as stated in the first paragraph of page 50 of the Warhammr 40k core rulebook?

 

The second point actually came from our own i Rules forum and is in regard to the wording regarding our Land Speeders and the option of upgrading them to Typhoons. I think this is a fairly strong issue that needs to resolved because it has the possibility of changing the gameplay and the sterotype that is held of Space Wolf builds only spamming Long Fangs. Multiple Typhoons could shift the meta game away from Long Fang builds and open up new fun and exciting army compostions.

 

2. The Land Speeder rules entry in the English version of the Space Wolves codex is very ambiguous in regarding exactly how many Land Speeders can be upgraded to Typhoons per squadron. Both the German and French codexes indicate that multiple Land Speeders can be upgraded to Typhoons, yet the English version does not. Clarification is needed on this matter as it could widely affect how Space Wolf players construct their armies and could possibly change the characterization that all Space Wolf armies must have Long Fangs to be competitive.

 

So there are my two issues. I would like this thread to serve as a brainstorming venue as to what other issues might be presented as well as constructing the actual form letter email that can be copy and pasted by anyone interested in participating.

 

Submitted concerns:

 

MH effects being boardwide.

Neal's Tempest Wrath ineffectiveness.

Thunderwolf mounts? Please expand on this.

Wolf Priest OBEY? Please expand on this.

[Forté]

Ramses, as always, your upfront and straight to the point and I fully agree that the SW forum here is by far the best and most active of all here at B&C. Not to mention the most fun and dare I say fanatical.

 

The main area I've seen on here that needs clarification is on another thread here but the main issue seems to be the following from the gw faq:

Q. How do Njal Stormcallerʼs Driving Gale and Living

Hurricane effects work if the Space Wolves player is the

player going second? (p53)

A. These two abilities have no real effect in games where

the Space Wolves player is going second – the tempest is

yet to rage

 

FAQ

SW Codex

 

Looks like Njal got nerfed by a muppet.

[Vantius]

The BEL in reference to Wolf Priests is an issue i think should be addressed. Also, I believe there are some fuzzies surrounding Thunderwolf Mounts as well.

 

Im game for making our howls heard.

[elithren]

I'm down for it so long as they are issues that we agree are needing to be corrected. I agree with the JAWS clarification and would like to add the MH issue in that you cant have a boardwide slow spell. The Wolf priest is also a question in that OBEL needs to be clarified with saga of the hunter.

[Nrthstar]

I'm wholeheartedly take for this. There was another issue I had, but it's been a month since i've played again and I can't remember what!

[dswanick]

As much as I love a good rules debate, I'm also big for a resolution - one way or the other. Count me in for the email barrage.

 

P.S.: Br.Ramses, I'd consider it a mark of honor to have gotten kicked out of DakkaDakka, those more ons really haven't a clue about either the rules or debating. :devil:

[Aeddon]

Count me in. You draft the letter and I'll send it!

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

Why not? I send them enough "What's New Today" corrections already. Might as well throw variety in.

[Grimtooth]

I added what issues have been presented so far with a question on ones that I do not know. If they are one of the things that you think, then please let me know so as I can clearly list them.

 

Also, is there an email or several emails that we could forward these to besides just the customer service line?

[Arez]

I'll do it if you tell me where to send it

 

 

 

on the note of rule clearification:How wide is the line for jaws of the world wolf?

[Silverwolf]

Yeh I'm in for this. I send them emails from time to time but they're never replied to. Perhaps if we do things this way they might actually pay attention.

 

JAWs, Njal, the Typhoons, and whether Saga of the Hunter lets an IC OBEL or whether it reduces the scouts to only being able to use the normal outflank rules, are the main ones I can think of.

 

As to a TWM IC being able to use Saga of the Hunter, I see no fuzziness. The 'dex clearly states simply that models must be in PA, and not using an SMB or Jump Pack. This, even if purely through omission, says that a TWM model can use it.

[Silverwolf]

As to where to send it, this is fairly standard of the replies I get sending to the customer email address.

 

Hi

Thanks for your email. Unfortunately, we cannot answer rules queries by email but if you would like to call your local Games Workshop, they should certainly be able to help. The store staff are the best gamers the company has at its disposal and they should certainly be able to give you all the information you need.

 

If you are looking to submit suggestions for FAQs the best thing to do would be to contact Jervis Johnson who gives the address below as part of the Standard bearer articles in white dwarf. Each issue he asks for feedback on the hobby and so he would be an excellent place to start. However they will most likely not be able to respond directly.

 

I hope that this is of help and if you have any problems please do not hesitate to get in touch.

 

 

Jervis Johnson

C/O White Dwarf

Design Studio

Games Workshop

Willow Road

Nottingham

NG7 2WS

[WG Vrox]

Sure I am in,

 

If that is the standard form reply letter I would suggest that we not call the emails "a rules clarification request" but rather a "Space Wolf Community Appeal" or something like that, it makes the guy handling the emails sit up and take notice when he/she has to think about how to categorize the request.

 

When dealing with a corporation a united front is always going to get more attention than an individual attempt. I also suggest that in the letters we all put in the reply email address that they should reply to.

Always better when there is one contact person representing the whole.

[Silverwolf]

Always better when there is one contact person representing the whole.

 

Vote 1, Brother Ramses ^_^

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

And then Ramses was buried under a sea of emails and never seen again...

[Silverwolf]

Shall we send him a few of the Karls to help him? I'm trying to decide if it's more important for them to be carrying the beer kegs... or helping with the mail...

[Valerian]

Great idea, I'll try to whip up something at work.

 

As to a TWM IC being able to use Saga of the Hunter, I see no fuzziness. The 'dex clearly states simply that models must be in PA, and not using an SMB or Jump Pack. This, even if purely through omission, says that a TWM model can use it.

 

That one's already clear, Silverwolf. The Saga is for Infantry only, whereas an IC with a Thunderwolf Mount is unit type: Cavalry. Therefore, they don't meet the requirement for the Saga.

 

Valerian

[Silverwolf]

Haha, I've challenged that multiple times, and finally I read the Saga notes and actually notice the first two words in it's description :(.

 

I bow my head to one longer in the tooth then I Val. Your the first one to not back down when I challenge it lol. I apologise to any of the whelps I've caused confusion to ;).

[Wulfebane]

As to a TWM IC being able to use Saga of the Hunter, I see no fuzziness. The 'dex clearly states simply that models must be in PA, and not using an SMB or Jump Pack. This, even if purely through omission, says that a TWM model can use it.

 

That one's already clear, Silverwolf. The Saga is for Infantry only, whereas an IC with a Thunderwolf Mount is unit type: Cavalry. Therefore, they don't meet the requirement for the Saga.

 

Valerian

 

Let's break this down. The only model able to take both a TWM and Saga of the Hunter is a Wolf Guard Battle Leader. The WGBL's Unit Type is Infantry. As a wargear option, he can take either of the previously mentioned wargear. This would convert the WGBL into a Cavalry unit type as stated under the "Upgrades and Other Equipment" section of the codex regarding Thunderwolf Mount:

"A character with a Thunderwolf Mount

has the unit type of cavalry

, adds +1 Strength, +1 Toughness, and +1 Attack to his profile, and has the Rending special rule in close combat with any attack that does not use a special close combat weapon."

I think the same is just as explanatory for Wolf Priests. The * for Saga of the Hunter under the Wolf Priest option says so long as the model isn't in a jump pack or a bike (and in PA), then they can take the Saga. They're simply not stating what happens when you do take those, thus converting your unit type from Infantry to either Bike or Jump Infantry, negating the ability to take the Saga.

 

Unless the question comes from Silverwolf's line of thinking, regarding whether a WP or WGBL with the Saga reduces a Scout pack to the normal Outflanking instead of our BEL rules, in which case I would ask (on the result of a "yes, it does") whether it could be errata'd to read as BEL instead of outflank in the Saga text for better synergy.

 

 

Back on topic; Count me in, so long as the procedure is broken down for me.

 

Is this just for rules clarifications or as WG Vrox worded it, being more of an appeal? If the latter, I'd really like to know if and when we're ever getting TWC or Fenrisian Wolf models. They've had variations of fen. wolves in our codices for decades now and still no model save for the goblin rider mount. As for the TWC model, it's one of the more tournament-breaking units in the SW codex atm and there's nothing suitable in the GW line (unless they manage to claim "...but check out the new mournfangs!") to place on a tournament table and that's simply unacceptable to me. I would also like to know why we are not allowed Camo Cloaks, Land Speeder Storm or Scout Biker units in our codex, as well as why Iron Priests do not have Bolster Defenses.

 

If it's just for rules, then I guess I'd like a solid answer on appropriate base sizes for TWC and fen. wolves. Other questions I had have already been put out there.

 

 

PS: Some typos on the OP -

It's "N

j

al's (not Neal's)

Lord of Tempests

game effect (not Tempest Wrath the

pp

)"

and "Wolf Priest OBE

L

vs Outflank"

[Marshal Wilhelm]

We are pretty much the dominant forum here at the B&C and by far the most active. In most sections I have seen threads flounder for days if not weeks on the front page and here so many topics and discussions are always pushing the page counts and threads up and beyond.

 

Based on this observation and what seems to be a pretty decent sense of comradiere between us, even those of us that disagree on issues, I want to propose something that will make our gaming life as Wolves infinitely better in my opinion;

 

I would like to organize and push for an email campaign to Games Workshop that will address what we as SW are pressing gaming issues. All I would ask for is a 2 week commitment of the members here to send out a minimum of one email a day that consists of a form letter that a majority of us consider to be pressing issues that need to be addressed.

 

Don't mistake business for achievement, brother :)

 

I think this is a terrific idea. Also, if it comes to pass and brings changes for SW, you will have pioneered an approach that can be copied by other factions. This will tighten up the game for everyone, which will only be a good thing.

 

A+

[Valerian]

As to a TWM IC being able to use Saga of the Hunter, I see no fuzziness. The 'dex clearly states simply that models must be in PA, and not using an SMB or Jump Pack. This, even if purely through omission, says that a TWM model can use it.

 

That one's already clear, Silverwolf. The Saga is for Infantry only, whereas an IC with a Thunderwolf Mount is unit type: Cavalry. Therefore, they don't meet the requirement for the Saga.

 

Valerian

 

Let's break this down. The only model able to take both a TWM and Saga of the Hunter is a Wolf Guard Battle Leader. The WGBL's Unit Type is Infantry. As a wargear option, he can take either of the previously mentioned wargear. This would convert the WGBL into a Cavalry unit type as stated under the "Upgrades and Other Equipment" section of the codex regarding Thunderwolf Mount:

"A character with a Thunderwolf Mount

has the unit type of cavalry

, adds +1 Strength, +1 Toughness, and +1 Attack to his profile, and has the Rending special rule in close combat with any attack that does not use a special close combat weapon."

I think the same is just as explanatory for Wolf Priests. The * for Saga of the Hunter under the Wolf Priest option says so long as the model isn't in a jump pack or a bike (and in PA), then they can take the Saga. They're simply not stating what happens when you do take those, thus converting your unit type from Infantry to either Bike or Jump Infantry, negating the ability to take the Saga.

 

Wulfebane,

 

I don't get what you are trying to say here. If one looks only at the army list entry, then yes, it would appear that a Wolf Guard Battle Leader would be able to take a Thunderwolf Mount as well as Saga of the Hunter. However, when you actually look at the entry for Saga of the Hunter it clearly states that it is for infantry models only, which the WGBL with TWM is not. Therefore, no unit/model may take both the TWM and SotH.

 

Unless you are trying to argue something different, and I'm not understanding what you've tried to express?

 

V

[Grimtooth]

Couldn't join Wolf Scouts anyway if that was part of the plan as well since the TWM entry says he can only join Fenrisian wolves and TWC.

[Skirax]

I'm willing to help out with this with any issues I see/remember, but this seems like a brilliant idea :)

[Wulfebane]

Wulfebane,

 

I don't get what you are trying to say here. If one looks only at the army list entry, then yes, it would appear that a Wolf Guard Battle Leader would be able to take a Thunderwolf Mount as well as Saga of the Hunter. However, when you actually look at the entry for Saga of the Hunter it clearly states that it is for infantry models only, which the WGBL with TWM is not. Therefore, no unit/model may take both the TWM and SotH.

 

Unless you are trying to argue something different, and I'm not understanding what you've tried to express?

 

V

 

Same thing you were saying.. just breaking it down into components for others. You said WGPL taking TWM are now considered cavalry, but for all the steps to determine the restrictions, one would have to stop at roughly 4+ individual pages in the codex. It doesn't have all the restrictive outlines for possible loopholes all in one place, so I felt like typing them out.

[Silverwolf]

Couldn't join Wolf Scouts anyway if that was part of the plan as well since the TWM entry says he can only join Fenrisian wolves and TWC.

 

Haha, was never part of the plan :).