AbusePuppy Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Only insofar as HI, which I seldom use myself. Vanguard in a transport of any variety (esp. a LR) can be very useful. I dig em. Yeah, I'm afraid I just don't see the point of VV if you're not using their ability to assault on the drop. Taking a big squad and gearing them up is expensive, and the job is usually better done by some other unit. Paying ~5pts for +1attack over a normal Tactical is... not that great a deal, in my opinion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237978-how-should-i-equip-my-vanguard/page/2/#findComment-2871530 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 I think there's some marginal uses for VV on foot, but in most instances other units will do the job better. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237978-how-should-i-equip-my-vanguard/page/2/#findComment-2871535 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volcatus Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Only insofar as HI, which I seldom use myself. Vanguard in a transport of any variety (esp. a LR) can be very useful. I dig em. While vanguard can (almost) be the veteran assault squad we no longer have, taking death company if you don't want to make use of HI makes more sense. This. 10 DC w/ 1TH, 3PW + LRC = 525 points. 10 VV w/ 1TH, 3PW + LRC = 525 points. I'm not an advocate of DC, normally. In this instance, the choice is pretty clear to me. The one and only advantage the VV has, of course, is the ability to choose their direction after the initial CC. Other than that, the DC are much more effective for the points. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237978-how-should-i-equip-my-vanguard/page/2/#findComment-2871548 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 VV can take Lit Claws; I don't believe DC can? VV can take PFs...I think DC are restricted to THs, no? Small bits on top of the whole "Can choose which direction they go when they go anywhere" thing. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237978-how-should-i-equip-my-vanguard/page/2/#findComment-2871556 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volcatus Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 DC can take fists. They can't take claws, as you point out. Small bits on the whole, to be sure. The WS5 and built in FC/FNP are the big bits. Not to mention that although both units can benefit quite a bit from a Chaplain, the DC gain even more. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237978-how-should-i-equip-my-vanguard/page/2/#findComment-2871564 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Drake Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 If you plan on dropping them in aggressively, i.e right into enemy troops using DS & HI (which is totally the best use for them!) etc then I suggest going cheap. 10 RAS - Jump Packs - Thunder Hammer - MB x 3 350 Here is why. 1) You want to try & win the combat in your enemies combat phase, tooling them up with loads of power weapons etc will just leave you wiping out said squad and unless it's super expensive your boys will likely be sitting in enemy territory on the end of lots of pissed off firepower. Stay locked in combat if possible. Combat squad if you are going against 5 man MEQs or GEQs, no point putting 10 VV into a 5 man MEQ or 10 man GEQ. Also, 5 man squads are easier to DS in with HI. 2) Storm Shields are nice but when you drop down in their lines and wipe out their unit of Long Fangs what do you expect will be shooting you? Yep, boltguns, those lovely boltguns. In fact I will bet that against most armies you will be looking at lots of rapid fire weapons pointing right at you (unless you are still locked in combat). Storm Shields are great for stopping high strength things that ignore armour but what good is a few dudes having 3++ if you face 20 saves? * If you use them to tar-pit Nids then again, why waste points on expensive upgrades? I'd rather multi assault using VV & RAS in tandem. Also, keeping them cheap means they can do their job, they are an expendable unit, don't forget it. Now & again you'll get unlucky & have to roll on the mishap chart, what's better to lose - 175/350 points or 500+ points? PS. I do say to take a single TH & a few MBs just incase you get the chance to hit a Raider or some other piece of armour (Whirlwinds are best, they hardly ever move!). Also, you never know when you'll bump into a Dread/Walker or MC. Dallas PPS. Why are people comparing VV to DC? I don't see the point in that, they're chalk & cheese & have massively different jobs/uses. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237978-how-should-i-equip-my-vanguard/page/2/#findComment-2871565 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 The WS5 and built in FC/FNP are the big bits. Not to mention that although both units can benefit quite a bit from a Chaplain, the DC gain even more. Is it still the case that the presence of a Chaplain mitigates the Rage USR? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237978-how-should-i-equip-my-vanguard/page/2/#findComment-2871569 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 The WS5 and built in FC/FNP are the big bits. Not to mention that although both units can benefit quite a bit from a Chaplain, the DC gain even more. Is it still the case that the presence of a Chaplain mitigates the Rage USR? no. Can't mitigate rage except by putting them in a transport or blocking LOS to every enemy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237978-how-should-i-equip-my-vanguard/page/2/#findComment-2871573 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volcatus Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 The DC gain rerolls to hit and to wound on the charge if a Chaplain is attached to them. That was the advantage I was referring to. The Chaplain would only confer the rerolls to hit to the VV. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237978-how-should-i-equip-my-vanguard/page/2/#findComment-2871578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Here are my two favorite builds. One is the cheap route while the other is very hard hitting and can roll through an enemy flank... (1) Sergeant - power fist & stormshield 3x power sword 1x thunderhammer (2) Sergeant - power fist & stormshield 3x lightning claw & stormshield 1x thunderhammer & stormshield 2x power sword 1x melta pistol http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_f2aZroPOOS4/TGl8vLtO4aI/AAAAAAAAAC8/qpBPgLWEFgA/s320/VV%20vets%20article%201.jpg G ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237978-how-should-i-equip-my-vanguard/page/2/#findComment-2871700 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Byhlli Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Only insofar as HI, which I seldom use myself. Vanguard in a transport of any variety (esp. a LR) can be very useful. I dig em. Yeah, I'm afraid I just don't see the point of VV if you're not using their ability to assault on the drop. Taking a big squad and gearing them up is expensive, and the job is usually better done by some other unit. Paying ~5pts for +1attack over a normal Tactical is... not that great a deal, in my opinion. You have +2 attacks over a standard Tactical Squad Space Marine, as you also have an additional close-combat weapon. +1 attack over an Assault Squad Space Marine, granted. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/237978-how-should-i-equip-my-vanguard/page/2/#findComment-2871757 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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