Quick question

[Regem Nox]

Hi guys

This is my first post here. I've been lurking and I think the community here is excellent, if slightly insane...

Anyway onto the point, are all world eaters bezerkers? Can they pilot ships? Do they have intelligent commanders?

Basically, are some of them not insane? Or do they all run around chain-axing random people for fun?

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

The entire Legion is lost to Khorne.

 

They might conceivably have someone capable of keeping themselves in check long enough to drive a vehicle around or repair a suit of armour.

 

After all, if not they're pretty much unable to exist at all for more than a short while before logistics catch up with them and they end up dead.

[daveclark890]

They are warp entities now, they have the support of daemons to deal with things like fixing armour, they also have human slaves that they dont plant their chain axes in and they do things like driving/piloting vehicles/ships.

[Regem Nox]

Thanks for the help.

[Grimdarkness]

It's too bad a long time ago devotes of Khorne where less about killing anything that moved and more about the martial side of the bloodletting.

[Cheex]

I see Khorne Berzerkers (so by extension, World Eaters) as being roughly analogous to Norse berserkers. In non-combat situations, they seem to have at least some self-control: a number of stories mention Berzerkers building giant piles of skulls, which I can't imagine someone doing if he's in a constant state of psychosis. They'd certainly be psychopaths, completely detached from any sense of empathy or sympathy, and would be extremely quick to anger. They are also extreme religious zealots; everything they do is in the name of their lord, Khorne. A pretty dangerous and unstable combination of traits.

 

These are all generalisations, of course; the implants would affect some personalities more than others. There are obviously going to be some individuals with a stronger willpower than your average Berzerker who can lead them in a more tactical sense (though this would probably be no more advanced than simply guiding the forces to a certain part of the battlefield, rather than executing advanced tactical manoeuvres and such), and I don't doubt that some would be controllable enough to drive vehicles. Most of those roles, though, are probably filled by non-World Eaters: renegade CSM, weakling mortals, etc. I like to imagine a vehicle's crew literally being part of the vehicle, like in Forgeworld Chaos Titans.

[Eerie]

I think only Khârn is completely insane and beyond any reasoning.

If every Khorne Berserker would be like that then there would hardly be any functional Khorne warband left. That Lord Zhufor (sp?) from the Forgeworld books is a Khorne Berserker and I think he can be called "intelligent commander". The very fact that the Khorne Berserkers operate in squads and warbands and partake in wars in the real space alongside non-Khorne forces is evidence enough that they generally are capable of reason and restraint, and commiting themselves to long-term aims.

 

edit/ just noticed this thread is rather old already. Sorry for posting.

[Minsc]

they also have human slaves that they dont plant their chain axes in and they do things like driving/piloting vehicles/ships.

 

Source? Because I can't really see human slaves surviving in the EoT for long.

 

With that said, your 'average' Berzerker is not insane. World Eaters get very angry, very easily, and they don't feel fear - but they're not insane. (Khârn is insane, but he's not your average Berzerker either.)

 

The story on pg.49 in our current codex is from a World Eaters point of view, and he is clearly not insane.

[Trevak Dal]

I think that the World Eaters are in character, similar to Star Trek (TNG and beyond) depiction of Klingons. But maybe they don't see themselves as "warriors"...maybe they see themselves as Gladiators in Khorne's grand arena, where all they are doing is "playing to the crowd" (Khorne). Some have just given up to being Tzeentched into the situation (Khârn) and are happy just being meat puppets, but others have their own goals and missions. Some haven't forgotten that their Father owed the Emperor for the besmirching of his honor and Pride. Some haven't become so lost in the blood haze that they can't focus on tearing down the Imperium brick by brick.

[Thurne Shadehunter]

The legion has become a mass contradiction and a casualty of GW's lack of fore thought really. If put under a lore-microscope the World Eaters as GW describes them for the most part works only as restrained shock troops used by other Legions, let loose from their chains on the front line, hoping they inflict more casualties to the enemy force.

 

Between the psycho surgery, the khorne-inspired bloodlust and khorne's fickle nature the World Eaters should technically no longer exist - what small warbands remained would have torn themselves apart in unquenched fury between battles. Sad too, as the image of the World Eaters as prideful gladitorial types like their primarch is much

more interesting.

[Brother Ambroz]

Source? Because I can't really see human slaves surviving in the EoT for long.

 

Soul Hunter has a great many slaves surviving on their ship and it's been lost in the warp for an extended period of time. I forget if the IW series had much in the way of slaves mentioned, but the WB series does. They like their slaves to last so they can dispose of them usefully; IE exposing minefields, taking enemy lance barrages etc. :D

[Thurne Shadehunter]

Iron Warriors tend to use slaves as cannon fodder and to sniff out minefields as well. A number of chaos-centric novels and short stories not only detail the use of slaves by various Legions, but worlds in and around the Eye that sustain human life (albeit in some cases less than stable genetically). The various Legions tend to use these worlds among others to recruit on.

 

Now whether or not the World Eaters would have slaves, that is a different matter entirely.

[Warsmith Aznable]

I don't see a need to look past the codex to answer the question. There is the bit of fluff that has the squad of Berserkers sheltering from an artillery attack inside a building. They have the presence of mind to wait for a pause in the firing because they don't want to charge straight into a firing gun. A short bit later they have the presence of mind to realize that Khârn is "having an episode" when they see him and react accordingly. I assume they're part of the same force, probably came together on the same strike cruiser/battle barge and maybe even knew one another before the fight. But they know how he gets well enough to know that they're straight out of luck when they see him. The last one makes a conscious decision to accept fate rather than struggle against it, embracing Khârn taking his head and sharing in his own sacrifice to the Skull Throne.

 

"Crazy" does not mean "stupid", and "Berserker" does not mean "berserk". Charles Manson is crazy, and so is the guy who walks around downtown with socks on his hands screaming at traffic. Both crazy, but at different points on the scale. Manson is charismatic, calculating, and has no built-in empathy for other humans; the homeless guy I mentioned has a germ phobia and an incredible lack of awareness of his surroundings (I've seen him wander into traffic several times). And many people "come and go", sliding along that scale at different intervals (for a fluff example see Uzas in A D-B's Night Lords stories).

 

As for the World Eaters and Berserkers in general: at the best of times they're still disturbed sociopaths, but I reckon that the whole "mindless killing machine" is simply a state of being that can be reached in battle.

 

Other fluff instances include Khârn himself and what he thinks about while he fights. In one story he sees a fellow Berserker going down during a siege assault and notes his frustrated howl. Khârn understands his frustration: he won't get into the fortifications to see his goal fulfilled. In a moment of empathy he boots the Berserker's severed-yet-still-alive-head over the fortress walls. Khârn understands Astartes biology and knows that the head will be able to survive long enough to witness the slaughter that he and the surviving Berserkers are about to wreak on the defenders. In the middle of battle, amid the excitement of the assault and the anticipation of blood letting, Khârn reasons and even shows compassion. Khârn does this. It's the incredibly twisted reasoning and compassion of a severely disturbed mind, but there it is. And if Khârn of all people can do this then why not any other Berseker?

[Captain Tezdal]

Another source would be the 3.5 dex with the story about the Planet Killer, where ole' Abby is going down an elevator and whatnaught and a slave looks at him and the World Eater slave master slap-chops his head off for disrespect. One wouldn't think you'd put a complete lunatic that just froths at the mouth and kills everything in charge of the hired help.

[Iron Lord]

And in Ciaphas Cain (The Traitor's Hand) it's mentioned that World Eaters:

 

"quite often sent out a few of their number to advise the hordes of wannabe warmasters infesting the galaxy. (Although what advice a follower of Khorne would listen to other than "Kill them all!" is quite frankly beyond me.)"

 

as Cain puts it.

 

so- they can be advisors- not just shock troops.

[Kraull the Rampager]

They are space marines....first and foremost. Bloodletters second.

 

I guess they'd be a bit like Noise marines (KHORNE FORGIVE ME), in that, in a small battle, they'd be almost bored. As there is not so many skulls to be claimed, or not too much blood to be shed. It would almost be inglorious (Imagine First Claw from Blood Reaver in the opening sections of the book). However, during a large battle, I'd imagine Berzerkers would relish the slaughter, venting their anger upon the enemies of Khorne. Much like a Noise Marines senses reaching extreme highs during a large battle. Not so much going completely off the charts insane (though a few might, such as particularly favoured marines), but definately, all in agreement that to push forward for the slaughter is the way. As opposed to holding a strong defensive position, they would push forward in an attempt to steal the initiative. Even if it would be ill advised....a bit like Imperial Fists fighting through what most marines would retreat from.

 

So essentially, yes. Insane. In a "If I needed too, I would kill you without a second thought, and burn your skull in a sacrifice to Khorne, and purely to vent my slight annoyance from you, on you."

 

As opposed to squads running through their own ships murdering everything nearby....(Maybe in a gladitorial arena to pass the time in a practice type simulator, or even to settle disputes)

[Killer_Kane_24]

They're like Noise marines (KHORNE FORGIVE ME),

 

Khorne doesn't forgive only kills :3

[killersquid]

In the Siege of Vraks, the Skulltakers commander (a subset of the World Eaters) schemes a coup to take control of the chaos forces in the battle, earlier he takes command of all the other chaos space marine armies so he can turn them into summoning a daemonic portal and daemons for him. Basically shows the fellow having a pretty solid head on his shoulders, but utterly without compassion and totally self serving. He is also mentioned to be a traitor from a loyalist chapter who was tortured and mind-altered to become a psychopath.

 

I imagine Beserkers being more then just mindless beasts. I believe they are uttlery psychotic when the blood begins to fall, but can understand tactical situations, or at least plan out their battles in order to better serve an actual cause (other then just Go to random world->Kill->Next world). However, I figure that their commanders would be the most sane amongst them.

[templarboy]

I prefer to yank my fluff ideas from the Realms of Chaos book back in the stone age. The World Eaters were not exaggerated psychotic morons. Angron had all the brain surgery and enhancements he would give his Legions. He wasn't an idiot. I am hoping that when (someday) we get a new CSM codex, they can tone down the hyperbole. I am still sore about Ward having the GK GM kick Mortarion's butt. A Demon Primarch. Banished single handedly by a hyped up Librarian. Really? With examples like that I am not taking their stuff all that seriously. In the end, we make our own fluff. I have WE havocs in my army. They make sense to me.

[Iron Lord]

Angron's statblock in WD isn't especially powerful- it's comparable to the Tempus-Fugitive rules, in fact.