Dark Angel Gunline

[CatachanGazz]

I'm thinking of starting a new SM force and i've always loved the Dark Angels so i was wondering if i could get some advice. I'm looking to make a Gun line army that fits in with the feel of the Dark Angels, so i was thinking of a solid line of tac marines, with devastators with plasma cannons on some high ground, possibly with scout snipers overlooking as well. I was also thinking of using DA veterans and the command squad to plug gaps in the line in either two razorbacks or a singular rhino. To bring more DA feel to it i think i'd pack a counter attack force of Ravenwing bikers or land speeders and also some deathwing terminators in a Land Raider. It's all a work in progress atm i just want to get the feel right rather than work on what would be most efficient war game wise if you understand me, any thoughts would be very welcome :rolleyes:

[Isiah]

I'd say it sounds like a solid beginning ;).

 

Generally though even in a greenwing army the DA use the DW and RW very offensively – either deep striking (termies) or scouting or outflanking (bikers) – rather than for counter assault. Coubter assault is a good role for supporting Dreadnoughts swinging S10 dreadnought close combat weapons.

 

Best of luck.

 

Cheers

I

[timmytool]

If your going gun line you cant go past using your 3 FA slots for 3 typhoons with multi-melta's 75 points each for 3 st8 shots a pop that adds a level of maneuverability to the army. other then that smurfs out points us with almost everything (I think our dev's come in cheaper if we dont use missile launchers).

 

also remember we can get a assault weapon in a 5man sq unlike smurfs, add a razorback and you have a potent troop choice.

 

as for the feel of DA's unlike popular believe we aren't a plasma heavy force, that was only due to a WD update that was in play for a small time frame(but yes I do like/love/want-to-marry plasma).

 

personally I think the DA vets are the most fluff eroding unit in the DA codex we dont have vets we have a company of terminators, the last codex put it in their to justify the robed box(which I love, as sergeants and devs/assult marines not as a separate vet unit)

[Brother Immolator]

as for the feel of DA's unlike popular believe we aren't a plasma heavy force, that was only due to a WD update that was in play for a small time frame(but yes I do like/love/want-to-marry plasma).

 

Whatever the reasons it has stuck with us and i believe in the next dex will go to that direction.

[Grand Master Raziel]

Well, a good DA gunline is going to wind up being kind of like a vanilla marine mech list. I'd start with 3 Predators - either dakka or ACLC (probably ACLC), 3 Typhoons, 3 Dreadnoughts with twin-linked autocannons (keep the DCCWs for counter-assault) and 3 Tac Squads with Laserbacks, meltaguns, and plasma cannons (this is where you can have your PCs). Points-permitting, adjust as necessary for Ravenwing and Deathwing units. Using Belial as your HQ will let you take Termies as Troops and keep your Elites slot free for Dreads. Plus, Belial with THSS is really cost-effective. You can drop a Typhoon to give yourself a slot for a Ravenwing Attack Squadron. If you want to use Scouts, don't use them as snipers, go pistol+ccw and use them to outflank and harass enemy backfield units.

[Komodo]

Marines are elite shock troops of 40k. IG is for holding the line, not marines. DA can be very mobile force with deep striking termies, bikes and landspeeders. Not only they're mobile, they hit hard too. Give them support units, and you can kick ass even against new codexes if you play smart.

[Brother Immolator]

Just remember a golden rule:Dont try to outgun an Imperial Guard gun line.

[CatachanGazz]

Maybe i'l revise my thought on the gunline approach to a more mobile force but i still really like the thought of a very fire power based army, maybe tac squads with rhinos or combat squads with razorbacks rushing forward to claim objectives or key positions, with scouts pinning down the enemy, or possibly infiltrating in some rough terrain just waiting for some Deathwing to teleport in and start taking names :cuss

[Brother Immolator]

Maybe i'l revise my thought on the gunline approach to a more mobile force but i still really like the thought of a very fire power based army, maybe tac squads with rhinos or combat squads with razorbacks rushing forward to claim objectives or key positions, with scouts pinning down the enemy, or possibly infiltrating in some rough terrain just waiting for some Deathwing to teleport in and start taking names :P

 

The Razorback las/plas rush is an effective build especially in the BA dex.I dont know for the rest though.

[Grand Master Raziel]

Maybe i'l revise my thought on the gunline approach to a more mobile force but i still really like the thought of a very fire power based army, maybe tac squads with rhinos or combat squads with razorbacks rushing forward to claim objectives or key positions, with scouts pinning down the enemy, or possibly infiltrating in some rough terrain just waiting for some Deathwing to teleport in and start taking names :P

 

Forget about pinning. Pinning doesn't work reliably enough to build a strategy around it. It's nice when it happens, but if you take units or options that happen to have pinning, take them for whatever merits they have besides pinning, not because of pinning.

 

I've messed around with the Scouts/Ravenwing/Deathwing 1-2-3 punch a little, and while the Scouts had their moments, I never really managed to land the whole combo all at once. Part of the problem is Dawn of War missions - if the Scouts can't start on the table, then you're not infiltrating them anywhere. They can still outflank, but that makes it hard to coordinate with the Ravenwing Rush+Deathwing Assault, because they're coming in anytime from the 2nd turn to the 5th turn. I hate being at the mercy of Reserve rolls, and messing with your Reserve rolls is a feature appearing in a lot of armies these days. So, maybe I didn't do it hard enough - it might be worth doing as a whole army concept. But, if you want to build a gunline, the more points you sink into Scouts and Deathwing, the less points your sinking into long-range firepower.

[Brother Immolator]

I agree with raziel.Also consider that the sniper rifle aint what it used to be and that scouts take precious elite slots.Plus ours dont even have cammo cloaks.

[HJL]

ive been using a battle company in 2500 pt games recently. its not terribly effective but you can certainly put down a lot of guns!

 

i use scouts from time to time bolters and a rocket launcher. they typicaly try to come in on a side and pop a piece of artillery or something else nasty that is raining death on me.

 

one of my favourite units is a command squad with max plasma and an apothecary in a drop pod. its expensive but itll take out a terminator squad with ease and can threaten dreads and light vehicles.

 

company master - combi plasma, power weapon

125 pts

 

veteran - plasma gun

veteran - plasma gun

veteran - plasma pistol, chainsword

veteran - plasma pistol, chainsword

veteran - apothecary

drop pod

235pts

 

try it and youll like it.

[march10k]

I agree with raziel.Also consider that the sniper rifle aint what it used to be and that scouts take precious elite slots.Plus ours dont even have cammo cloaks.

 

 

On the other hand, they can do some amazing things for their points...for 80 points and an elites slot, you can make the enemy think twice about deploying vehicles within 12" of a board edge because he doesn't want six krak grenades to the face. You can make him think twice about going after the bikes that you have racing up the edge, since 16 S4 WS4 attacks from out of nowhere can ruin his day in a hurry. They're not awesome-autowin units like a full squad of death company with power weapons charging off a stormraven's assault ramp, but then, they don't cost six billion points, either. For 80 points, they have a dramatic impact on the enemy's thought process. My deathwing lists always take 5 scouts and 2 vennies for elites....

[Brother Immolator]

I just can bear to bring my scouts into CC,i just cant dont know why.

[HJL]

why!? they do extremly well in combat. i had a unit of ten take out a six man plaguemarine squad before. they are better than marines in conbat against stuff that ignores armour. if you wont have an armour save, you might as well not have a bad one...

[Darth Badguy]

I've been thinking about throwing a scout squad in to outflank in a DW army. How do you guys do it? Five guys with shotguns? Full squad with pistols & a powerfist?

 

I hope this isn't getting too far off topic. I figure one scout squad could work well as a wild card in a gunline army, too.

[Certs]

DA gunline?

 

Shrug, I'd view a 2k list of 7 deathwing squads with cyclone missile launchers advancing in a line across the table with 2 typhoons behind them firing 18 rockets a turn to be fairly gun-line-ish in a way... at least until they charge into melee and start wrecking leftover faces with their thammers/tlclaws.

[pueriexdeus]

I've been thinking about throwing a scout squad in to outflank in a DW army. How do you guys do it? Five guys with shotguns? Full squad with pistols & a powerfist?

 

I hope this isn't getting too far off topic. I figure one scout squad could work well as a wild card in a gunline army, too.

I deep-strike a DW Sqd to do it for me.

[Darth Badguy]

I've been thinking about throwing a scout squad in to outflank in a DW army.

I deep-strike a DW Sqd to do it for me.

 

That sounds smarter.

[Brother Immolator]

why!? they do extremly well in combat. i had a unit of ten take out a six man plaguemarine squad before. they are better than marines in conbat against stuff that ignores armour. if you wont have an armour save, you might as well not have a bad one...

 

I just hate the models when they are armed as such.

[march10k]

I've been thinking about throwing a scout squad in to outflank in a DW army.

I deep-strike a DW Sqd to do it for me.

 

That sounds smarter.

 

 

Not really... the scouts get to charge off a board edge unmolested and toss off 16 WS4 S4 attacks or 6 kraks for 80 points. That's a completely different story than slightly less than two terminators, armed howevery you like, dropping in (scattering, unless you have RW support still alive), and sitting for a turn before being able to charge...besides which, we're talking about a deathwing army...you already have terminators...more terminators doesn't really broaden the spectrum of what sort of threat you present to the enemy, it's just more of the same. The outflanking scouts give the enemy an additional headache, rather than just making the exisiting one marginally worse.

 

As for how to arm them, YMMV. I'm very much against shotguns. They do hit harder than BP/CCW on the charge, but suck after that first round of melee...and if the scouts are charging into an existing melee they can't shoot anyway. The "betterness" of the shotties is too situational for my liking, the basic kit is best. And I wouldn't spend more than 85 points on the unit...the extra five points, if you have them, being for meltabombs on the sergeant. If you give him a powerfist, the unit's price goes up by almost a third...points-efficiency is out the window. Maybe in a unit of ten, take the fist...but not for the cheap "give your opponent something to worry about on his flanks" unit. I've actually had guys decline to go after my attack bike on the board edge because they didn't want to either commit enough combat power to beat the scouts to the destruction of the bike (after all, then the scouts just come on elsewhere) or trade whatever unit killed the bike for the bike, so the mere threat of the scouts coming on is often crippling to the enemy's thinking process...even though they only come on your preferred board edge 2/3 of the time!

[pueriexdeus]

I've been thinking about throwing a scout squad in to outflank in a DW army.

I deep-strike a DW Sqd to do it for me.

 

That sounds smarter.

 

 

Not really... the scouts get to charge off a board edge unmolested and toss off 16 WS4 S4 attacks or 6 kraks for 80 points. That's a completely different story than slightly less than two terminators, armed howevery you like, dropping in (scattering, unless you have RW support still alive), and sitting for a turn before being able to charge...besides which, we're talking about a deathwing army...you already have terminators...more terminators doesn't really broaden the spectrum of what sort of threat you present to the enemy, it's just more of the same. The outflanking scouts give the enemy an additional headache, rather than just making the exisiting one marginally worse.

 

As for how to arm them, YMMV. I'm very much against shotguns. They do hit harder than BP/CCW on the charge, but suck after that first round of melee...and if the scouts are charging into an existing melee they can't shoot anyway. The "betterness" of the shotties is too situational for my liking, the basic kit is best. And I wouldn't spend more than 85 points on the unit...the extra five points, if you have them, being for meltabombs on the sergeant. If you give him a powerfist, the unit's price goes up by almost a third...points-efficiency is out the window. Maybe in a unit of ten, take the fist...but not for the cheap "give your opponent something to worry about on his flanks" unit. I've actually had guys decline to go after my attack bike on the board edge because they didn't want to either commit enough combat power to beat the scouts to the destruction of the bike (after all, then the scouts just come on elsewhere) or trade whatever unit killed the bike for the bike, so the mere threat of the scouts coming on is often crippling to the enemy's thinking process...even though they only come on your preferred board edge 2/3 of the time!

A lot of it has to do with the role of the out-flankers. From my experience DSing a single Sqd of DW into the OP's backfield will effectively divert the resources of two/three units to deal with them for two or three turns. So when my 240 point Sqd can tie up major points of opposing forces, it's a win for me.

[pueriexdeus]

Duplicate post, please remove.

[march10k]

I guess half of my point is that taking scouts doesn't prevent you from also deepstriking some terminators....and the other half is that the scouts cost a third as much to fill a similar role (outflanking instead of deepstriking, but still threatening the enemy with attack from an unpredictable angle...

 

In a DW army, a deepstriking squad of terminators is something you already have, and it's something the opposition is already expecting to have to deal with. The scouts add a new dimension to the army. If you've already got a hamburger, do you want to add another layer of beef, or do you think maybe a slice of cheese? You're sitting on chili with a choice between more beans or some sour cream...no contest!

 

Something else to think about is the effect that the two threats under discussion have on the enemy. The threat of deepstriking terminators inspires him to spread out, since they're dead slow after they arrive. On the other hand, outflanking scouts make him want to keep the good stuff more than 12" from the board edge, effectively bunching him up a bit more than he would otherwise...and if there's anything a DW army likes, it's to see all those delicious targets tightly packed in the middle of the board.