Hybrid Mech/Bikes list

[Deschenus Maximus]

So as many of you know, the BA dex is one of the most flexible (THE most flexible, imo) codex in terms of the different lists that you can make with it. Mixed mech, full DoA, jumpers + bikes, mech + jumpers, Raider spam, Razor spam, AV 13 spam, jumpers + devs, etc etc etc

 

I'm wondering if anyone has tried Mech + bikers yet. A couple of Razors, 2-3 bike squads, some fire support, a libby and a few priests might make for an interesting list.

 

While hybrid lists often have the weakness that target priority is not complicated (i.e. use anti-infantry weapons on infantry and use anti-tank on tanks), in this case, due to the insane resilience of bikers with FnP, I'm thinking it might not be so bad.

 

So has anyone tried this yet?

[bebe]

I don't think a hybrid works but a DoA bike list should ... Stelek was fooling around with one awhile back:

 

1x Librarian 145 Blood Lance, The Sanguine Sword, Hand Flamer, Space Marine Bike

1x 6 Assault Terminators 270 (TH/SS)

1x Sanguinary Priest 105 (Infernus Pistol, Powersword, Jump Pack)

1x Sanguinary Priest 115 (Infernus Pistol, Powersword, Space Marine Bike)

2x 10 Assault Marines 250 ( Meltagun, Meltagun, Infernus Pistol/Powerfist)

2x 5 Bike Squadron 180 (Meltagun, Meltagun, Powerfist, Attack Bike w/MM)

 

Keep Terminators in reserve to pop in where needed. Have the Bikes up front followed by the Jumpers. Combat squad if needed depending on mission.

[Brother_Byhlli]

I have to say I'm not a fan of deep striking Assault Terminators.

 

JamesI has been a fan of bikes with jump infantry for a while. Probably worth firing him a PM if you're interested.

[Deschenus Maximus]

Bike + Jumpers is not new. It's nice but this isn't what I was curious about.

 

Might just have to try for myself on Vassal.

[bebe]

It seems unbalanced to me - I don't see razorspam working with bikes. But let's see your results. I know bikes and jumpers are not new. I said as much. As for Assault Terminators DSing. i generally agree but in this list it's them or HG with plasmas. You need something for the other guys hammer squad.

[Zhukov]

Do Attack Bikes count as Bikes too? In that case: I play with them and it works. Currently I play with 3x2 MM Attack Bikes, 5 Razors and 3 Preds.

[JamesI]

Do Attack Bikes count as Bikes too? In that case: I play with them and it works. Currently I play with 3x2 MM Attack Bikes, 5 Razors and 3 Preds.

I use attack bikes in my mech. But they are pretty much the only bikes I run, I don't care for regular bikes.

 

I'm of the opinion that attack bikes fit into basically every type of BA army. The only problem with them is they compete with Baal preds in a Mech list, so it depends on what kind of Pred you want to field.

 

Regular bikes I just don't feel add enough that you can't get from assault marines (either jumpy or in rhinos/razorbacks) and are expensive.

[Dallas Drake]

Well, I've never used normal bikes but MM Attack Bikes work very well (I use 2 x 3 MM). As above I agree that they are versatile enough to fit into most set ups and I personally think they are one of the most reliable and durable anti-mech units BA can opt for. They often don't make it past turn 3 but so what? They are expendable so long as they deliver their 6 Multi Melta shots, I've melted everything from Land Raiders & Leman Russ to humble Chimeras, they do it all.

 

I personally support them with 1 x tooled up 10 man Rhino RAS & 3 x RAS Razorbacks with a few Priests leading the RAS for the FNP bubble. I find that if I turbo-boost turn one 24'' my Rhinos can still keep within 6'' (being fast) so I can get a 3+4+FNP on things like lasrifles/bolters etc, & I have that important 3++ for things that ignore armour or can cause Instant Death. All of my mech opponents hate them & they often spend a lot of firepower trying to remove them (which often leaves other parts of the army untouched).

 

Also, when it comes to FA slots I find that MM Attack Bikes beat Baals all day long, I find Baals overpriced & pretty ineffective, then I guess it depends on 1) your build, 2) your preference. For me FA is about anti-mech, my HQs, Devastators and RAS can handle their troops etc.

 

Dallas

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I guess that MMAB are a good counter versus the many mech lists we so often see. To me though they are a throwback to the old PDF codex. I don't mean that in a bad way - it's just my way of saying I'd rather use the new stuff. That said I've been working on designing something new with the codex that would be competitive. As said the new BA codex is extremely flexible. To me the beauty is the generous allowance of so many units from the nilla codex. I'd love to see a rolling gun line that uses speed to close the gap then blast away reducing the enemy to oblivion. MMAB could work very well in that regard along with some Landspeeder Tornadoes. Fast multi melta plaforms coupled with fast assault cannons I think has some potential.

 

G ;)

[Sokhar]

Bikes look awesome, I love the models and I like their potential, but I don't think they fit real well into BA lists aside from Blood Rodeo (Jumpers/Bikers). If there was a way to get them as Troops like vanilla Marines it would absolutely work well, but I don't think they mesh well with mechanized. They bring respectable firepower so I'd say that at least Attack Bikes are worth considering. And I do agree that Baals are probably slightly over-costed for what they provide on the tabletop. But opting for bikes lowers your armor saturation which is the main thing that makes mechanized go. Even worse than just decreasing your vehicle count, you also skew your average front armor value even more towards 11--6 Razors supported by 6 Predators/Vindicators works well because you have a good sized, medium-armor front to present to the enemy. When that drops to just 6 Razors, bikes, and maybe 3 auto-las preds hiding in the back, your opponent has a much easier task for their anti-tank weaponry.

 

I'm also skeptical of Land Speeder Tornadoes just because the Assault Cannon option is just so damn expensive. At 20 points I'd love it, and might consider it at 30, but at the same price as a Typhoon Launcher, I have a hard time justifying it. A Baal with twin-assault cannons isn't much more expensive, is almost as fast, occupies the same slot, and has better armor. With the Typhoon Launcher I can at least justify it as A) Giving me access to weapons I wouldn't otherwise have in my mech list and ;) The superior range of the Typhoon Launcher gives the Land Speeder a little extra bit of survivability.

[Volcatus]

A while back I toyed with the idea of using Scout Bikes for Locator Beacon points for DS Land Raiders. Yes, it's as expensive as it sounds.

 

The core of the list would look something like the following:

 

2 X 10 model RAS w/ the usual loadout and an LRC - 900

Libby w/ Bike - 135

Priest w/ Bike - 85

2 X 5 Scout Bikes w/ Locator Beacon - 270

Total - 1390

 

Shooting and CC potency need to be addressed with the remainder of whatever points level you'd be playing at, but the core of the list does make our DS Land Raider gimmick "work". Effectiveness of the gimmick is dubious, of course. But you certainly wouldn't be bringing the overplayed Razorspam card to the table.

[Dallas Drake]

MMAB with 3+/4+ & a 3++ turbo actually take a lot of the S8+ weapons off your Rhinos. Whilst they do lower your armour saturation (inevitable really) mech opponents do have to do decide what they want to stop, & 9 times out of 10 it's those attack bikes, just make sure you have melta else where too.

 

I think the guy who said about not getting reg bikes as troops has it true. If they were troops choices then they'd be a far more appealing choice.

 

Dallas

[Morticon]

Here ya go -> Yikes Bikes

 

Nationals 2010

 

The Nationals 2010 blog has loads of batreps with my biker/mech list.

[Morticon]

MMAB with 3+/4+ & a 3++ turbo actually take a lot of the S8+ weapons off your Rhinos. Whilst they do lower your armour saturation (inevitable really) mech opponents do have to do decide what they want to stop, & 9 times out of 10 it's those attack bikes, just make sure you have melta else where too.

 

Dallas

 

^ This man knows exactly what he's talking about !!

[Deschenus Maximus]

@Mort: Nice bikes there. I was actually thinking of going farther than you did by having at least 2 full squads of bikers supporting Razor ASM.

[Sokhar]

I've dabbled with each of these a bit, but not enough to draw adequate conclusions in my opinion. Any thoughts on Attack Bikes vs Speeder for fast melta delivery? Going just by the unit entries themselves, while Attack Bikes can (and really do) benefit from FNP, my current Mech list doesn't have any Priests or Honor Guard, so any Attack Bikes I might use will feel pain.

[Dallas Drake]

Thank you Mort, nice to know someone reads my posts :lol:

 

Any thoughts on Attack Bikes vs Speeder for fast melta delivery? Going just by the unit entries themselves, while Attack Bikes can (and really do) benefit from FNP, my current Mech list doesn't have any Priests or Honor Guard, so any Attack Bikes I might use will feel pain.

 

Bikes vs. Speeders is a preference thing, I use MMAB, my buddy who is Salamanders uses Speeders - we both think we've got the best FA choice because both complement are armies well. With their measly AV10 Speeders are relying on their inv. save just as much as bikes are & even without FNP your bikes can & should turbo boost for that 3++ inv. save on turn one, in fact it's that 3++ which is going to save both of these units most of the time (though if I was going to take Speeders I'd want them to hang back & shoot their Typhoon missiles till it was safe to zip in & roast troops etc with their HF). I'm not sold on Speeders for fast melta but that doesn't mean they can't do it, I've just never seen them get to their target as reliably as bikes, plus DS is pot luck & there are things out there to mess it up (Master of the Fleet - yes I play IG a lot!).

 

The biggest issue for bikes in a mainly mech list I've found is if you don't get the first turn - do you deploy them knowing they'll get shot at before you can turbo boost them? Or do you reserve them & hope your mech can take it for a few turns? Or do you reserve everything & hope for some good reserve rolls? This is where your list etc comes into play. Personally, against IG/gun line SMs etc I always have to reserve them, unless I can start them out of LOS or in good cover. Here, Speeders are a little more flexible since they have the option to Deep Strike in from reserve (though that's not always that useful). So, I guess if you plan to reserve your army against gunlines & high AV castlers like IG it might be best to try Speeders.

 

My conclusion will always be the same; the MMAB is the superlative choice for fast melta delivery. Cheap, fast, tough... and annoying as hell for your opponents!

 

Dallas

[Morticon]

Gonna sound like im just suckin up here- but again -another spot on post.

 

If you're a new BA player, or just new to bikes- then the above post is very insightful.

 

+1.

 

Its one way I take the fire off my rhino chassis. It becomes a priority for things like Guard or weak units holed up in tanks.

[Dallas Drake]

Gonna sound like im just suckin up here- but again -another spot on post.

 

If you're a new BA player, or just new to bikes- then the above post is very insightful.

 

+1.

 

Happy to help. Everyone should run MMABs ^_^

 

Its one way I take the fire off my rhino chassis. It becomes a priority for things like Guard or weak units holed up in tanks.

 

Yeah, and it's unbelievable how much fire-power you can soak up if your Rhinos/Razors also popped smoke!

 

A good IG player will shield his more valuable tanks with Chimera chassis & probably reserve his Chimera (melta) Vets, but that's why I use Devastators in tandem. I also think it's handy to have a few Meltaguns, Power Fists and/or Thunder Hammers around the army. A cheap unit of Vanguard Vets come in handy too - especially if you have an opponent who fails to move his/her tanks :).

 

D