Brotherhood Banners * Automatic Activation * IC(s) attached

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

If an IC(s) is attached to a squad of GKT or Paladins do they also benefit from automatic activation of the banner ?

 

G :lol:

[thade]

No codex on hand, but pretty sure they do. IC is part of the unit, the Banner grants the unit auto-activation. Keep in mind this still costs the IC a power for the turn (but most ICs have 2-3 powers, so this isn't typically a big deal).

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Okay thanks for the point on the ICs having to use a psychic test.

 

:eek

 

G :lol:

[Chengar Qordath]

No codex on hand, but pretty sure they do. IC is part of the unit, the Banner grants the unit auto-activation. Keep in mind this still costs the IC a power for the turn (but most ICs have 2-3 powers, so this isn't typically a big deal).

Checked my codex, and this is right. Auto-activation benefits everyone in the unit, just like the +1 attack.

[Gentlemanloser]

No codex on hand, but pretty sure they do. IC is part of the unit

 

So how about Psybolts? :D

[thade]

No codex on hand, but pretty sure they do. IC is part of the unit

 

So how about Psybolts? :D

Negative. Psybolts are purchased for the unit as wargear before the game starts; it's not a buff like the Banner is. Trying to associate the purchase of psybolts for the unit and having it pass on to an attached IC is no different (no less silly) than purchasing Jump Packs for an entire Command Squad and trying to assert that an IC attaching to the squad gets to be Jump Infantry while attached.

[Gentlemanloser]

Psybolts are purchased for the unit as wargear before the game starts; it's not a buff like the Banner is.

 

I don't get this stance. Let me swap your statement around;

 

The Banner is purchased for the unit as wargear before the game starts. It's a buff just like Psybolts are.

 

Trying to associate the purchase of psybolts for the unit and having it pass on to an attached IC is no different (no less silly) than purchasing Jump Packs for an entire Command Squad and trying to assert that an IC attaching to the squad gets to be Jump Infantry while attached.

 

Jump Packs are wargear that effect an individual mini.

 

Psybolts are wargear that effect an entire squad.

 

It's a noticable difference.

[thade]

Trying to associate the purchase of psybolts for the unit and having it pass on to an attached IC is no different (no less silly) than purchasing Jump Packs for an entire Command Squad and trying to assert that an IC attaching to the squad gets to be Jump Infantry while attached.

 

Jump Packs are wargear that effect an individual mini.

 

Psybolts are wargear that effect an entire squad.

 

It's a noticable difference.

Yet purchased in the same way.

 

Putting this on the OR board.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

BY ORDER OF THE HOLY =][= TAKE IT TO OR !!!

 

:D

 

G

[Drachnon]

Jump packs are individual wargear that's bought for an entire unit, the banner is bought for a single model but benefits the entire unit.

Distinct difference.

[Gentlemanloser]

Jump packs are individual wargear that's bought for an entire unit

 

No, they don't have to be. But I'd have to dig out something like the 'nilla Marine dex for any sort of proof. <_<

[thade]

Jump packs are individual wargear that's bought for an entire unit

 

No, they don't have to be. But I'd have to dig out something like the 'nilla Marine dex for any sort of proof. <_<

You are mistaken here, man. Command Squads and Vanguard Squads each buy Jump Packs for the WHOLE unit or for nobody. <3

[Gentlemanloser]

<_<

 

Seriously. Bah! lol!

 

I could have sworn there was a funky option that would let you purchase 1 Jump Pack, and 1 Bike for the same Squad.

 

/meh

 

More than happy to concede that point! ;)

[jhrovii]

Since this activation counts as a psychic power, does that not make psychic mastery 3 attractive for a Libby?

[Fred Johnson the 3rd jr]

Since this activation counts as a psychic power, does that not make psychic mastery 3 attractive for a Libby?

 

I don't know man, that makes the expensive guy even more expensive. And how often are 3 powers in a player turn going to be used? Not too often methinks.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Never buy Mastery 3 on a Librarian, or Mastery 2 on a Grandmaster either. It's a waste of points.

 

Don't forget, you get the +1A regardless of whether you turn on ID or not. So, often there is no point (if your opponents aren't multi-wound, or are in a small enough squad for it to not matter ie Ogryns, Nobs, Tyranid Warriors), you're better off just turning on 'Hammerhand' and then buffing them further with rad nades/'Might' from your attached hero. By definition, the Terminator blob/Paladin combat squad carrying the Banner is where you'd hide said heroes anyway.

 

I'd only use the auto-ID ability if you're up against a lone hero or monster, S5/6 power weapons at I6 will kill most things handily.

[Drachnon]

The auto ID is great against Tyranid warriors, paladins and nobs. Can't really think of other units with multiple wounds atm.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Thunderwolf Calvary.

 

G :P

[thade]

Since this activation counts as a psychic power, does that not make psychic mastery 3 attractive for a Libby?

 

I don't know man, that makes the expensive guy even more expensive. And how often are 3 powers in a player turn going to be used? Not too often methinks.

Not often, it's true; definitely not as often as two powers a turn. Nevertheless, it's not a complete write off. While rare, those turns when your Librarian casts Quickening, Might of Titan, and Hammerhand on his own unit can be epic enough to warrant it. :)

 

I can see merit to both sides here. On the one hand, situations that I point out there - while awesome - are pretty rare and you'd probably find it a safer bet to push those points into another model or upgrade that can be used more often. On the other hand, those few turns where you find it convenient to use a Psychic Shooting attack and still have two powers available for the Assault phase make for some epic moments.

 

I will add however that it's very clear, at least to me, that purely taking the third power for the advantage of two powers + auto-activated Force Weapon on one model (the Librarian himself) really doesn't seem worthwhile. It's only worth it for the fact that it means using utility powers need not impede your ability to bring it in melee.

[Drachnon]

The third power is usually wasted, unless you want to shoot and charge I don't think you'll ever find any real use for it. A lot of powers work only on your own turn and spamming close combat powers is awesome but if you really can't win the combat with only 1 or 2 + 1 from the attached squad the problem lies with your tactics not the librarians casting. Those 50 points are better spend upgrading your squads with some better weapons and/or psybolt ammo.

[Valerian]

It's the same as the Master of Runes upgrade in the Space Wolves codex. The games designers (Ward and Kelly), have simply overestimated the utility of multiple castings per turn of balanced powers, and have thusly overpriced the Mastery upgrades. In my opinion, +20 is about right to upgrade to Level 2, and +35 to upgrade to level 3. With these prices the upgrades might occasionally be taken; as it stands, however, they never are.

 

Valerian

[grimz]

Quick question:

 

When you auto-active force weapons, does your opponent have to allocate wounds based on the fact they are "instant death"?

 

Usually you activate force weapons after wounds have been assigned, this lets your opponent stack force weapon wounds on the same model (thinking about nobz for example).

[Pontain]

If memory serves, you strike blows, you determine wounds, your opponent assigns wounds, your opponent takes saves (as applicable), then you activate the force weapon, Instant Death-ing anyone who took an unsaved wound from it. I think there is a leadership test that potential ID wounded models can take to avoid the effect.

 

Seeing as NFW are all made hot at once (and all GK weapons are Force), it wouldn't matter how the wounds are assigned, as they aren't ID until after saves are made. I suppose this means that, in multi-wound identical models, you'll catch the last guy in line. In diverse groups, it all depends on how wounds get allocated out, and who fails invulnerables, so not everyone will die in order.

[Gentlemanloser]

Well, that's the reaosn for sticking a Halberd or two in a Squad.

 

Activate those first, then when your Swrods/Falchions/Hammer hit and wound, multi-wound minis can't have Force Wepaon hits stacked on them. :)

[thade]

The order of operations does not change here; it is still the case that you choose whether to activate FW or not after one or more wounds have been suffered. If this happens at a higher initiative than other models in a GK squad - meaning more Force Weapons have yet to swing - those weapons count as activated and on successful wounds will blow the brains out of their targets accordingly.