red_starrise Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Ok, in my 2500 pts list I run 3 GH packs as my firefight teams w/ their transports to grab objectives & secure my lines. The smaller pack's job is to protect my Long Fangs as needed against things such as Genesneakers & to snatch up an objective late-game. I have 14 pts left over right now, so I'm wondering: would it be better to re-do the big GH pack to drop 2 & the 2nd melta & take a wolf guard w/ a combi-melta & a power fist? My list looks as follows: Wolf Lord - TDA, Wolfclaw, Wolftooth Necklace, Wolf Tail Talisman Rune Priest - Jump Pack, Chooser Wolf Priest - TDA, Wolf Tail Talisman Wolf Guard x4 - TDA x4, Combi-Plas x2, Combi-Melta, Wolf Claw, Chain Fist. - in Drop Pod Dreadnought - Heavy Flamer, Multi-melta - in Drop Pod Grey Hunters - x10, Melta x2, Power Fist, MotW. Wolf Standard - in Rhino Grey Hunters - x8, Plasma, power weapon, MotW, Wolf Standard - Wolf Guard - Combi-Plas, Thunder hammer - in Rhino Grey Hunters - x5, Plasma, Wolf Standard - Wolf Guard - combi-plas - in Razorback - Las/Plas Blood Claws - x15, Flamer x2, Power Fist Landspeeder - multi-melta Thunderwolf Cav - x3, Plasma Pistol Vindicator Long Fangs - x6, x3 ML, x2 LC - in Razorback - Las/Plas Long Fangs - x5, x2 HB, x2 PC - in Razorback - Las/Plas BTW: Wolf Lord runs w/ the WG pack, Wolf Priest w/ the BC pack (yes I know they can't sweeping advance but trust me, the TDA has been a HUGE benefit up against major gunlines). The pros as I see them to the change: maintain 2 melta shots for a turn, 2 power fists, Ld 9, same # of base attacks as 2 GH The cons: 1 melta shot is 1 shot only, 1 fewer bodies, 2 fewer attacks on the charge/counter Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238370-2-meltas-or-wolf-guard/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtooth Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Depends on your playstyle. I never use Wolf Guard outside of my Loganwing lists. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238370-2-meltas-or-wolf-guard/#findComment-2874976 Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Leman Russ- Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 ^^ I agree, the Meltas are probably better since they can disable or destroy vehicles at a range so you don't charge into a bad position. Also 1 WG just isn't worth that much, if the squad wasn't originally a 10 man, let's say it was a 6 that would be something different, it's just not worth giving up a free Melta for a WG thats more then a GH, and the PF+Combi upgrade isn't cheap. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238370-2-meltas-or-wolf-guard/#findComment-2874987 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 To be honest, you probably won't notice any significant difference in effectiveness regardless the choice that you make. Mostly the full 10 man vice the 9+1 comes down to personal preference. One other thing that 5th Wolf Guard would do is give you access to a Heavy Weapon for one of your WGTs, though, so it might be worth the change for that reason alone (if you can adjust elsewhere to scrape up points for a CML or Assault Cannon (or even a dirt-cheap Heavy Flamer). One unrelated question though- why the Jump Pack on the Rune Priest? Who does he travel with? What is your intent for him? Valerian Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238370-2-meltas-or-wolf-guard/#findComment-2875016 Share on other sites More sharing options...
old git Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 The extra point of Ld the WG brings can be useful. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238370-2-meltas-or-wolf-guard/#findComment-2875066 Share on other sites More sharing options...
techmarine Azuris Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 LD 8 vs LD 9 isnt the biggest issue, especially if u have a IC or ven Dread with Saga of Majesty! Secondly using WG, just as pack leaders wastes an Elites choice which cn be better used as there is Stiff Competition, dread, LW, Scouts... GH manage fine on their own tbh, I always run 10 in Rhino an i have a (5/2/0, W/D/L) record with my 1250 points list :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238370-2-meltas-or-wolf-guard/#findComment-2875140 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Unless I'm running a foot-slog squad, I always choose a WGPL over a second special weapon for the extra firepower and Power Weapon, the +1I is just gravy. Of course, I also always choose a Plasma Gun over a Meltagun, and would never run two Meltaguns in a GH pack, regardless. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238370-2-meltas-or-wolf-guard/#findComment-2875144 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 why TDA on your wolfpriest instead of runic armour? the guy has a 4+inv save anyway... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238370-2-meltas-or-wolf-guard/#findComment-2875236 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV8 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 9+WGPL vs 10-strong packs. Personally, I always try to give my units Pack Leaders. A Grey Hunter with Power Fist is 40 points. Base 1 Attack, 2 on the Charge/Counter-Attack, with Leadership 8. Wolf Guard with Power Fist is 38 points. 43 points if you buy him a Combi-Weapon. Base 2 Attacks, 3 on the Charge/Counter-Attack, with Leadership 9. Additionally, the Combi-Weapon "makes up" for the lack of the second special weapon. Sure, a 1-shot isn't as good as an "every-shot", but think situationally, how often will you take advantage of that second special weapon, and are you better served by the extra Power Fist attack and an increase in Leadership (giving the unit further "autonomy" (less reliance on ICs or Saga of Majesty to keep them in the game)). DV8 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238370-2-meltas-or-wolf-guard/#findComment-2875279 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Ok, in my 2500 pts list I run 3 GH packs as my firefight teams w/ their transports to grab objectives & secure my lines. The smaller pack's job is to protect my Long Fangs as needed against things such as Genesneakers & to snatch up an objective late-game. I have 14 pts left over right now, so I'm wondering: would it be better to re-do the big GH pack to drop 2 & the 2nd melta & take a wolf guard w/ a combi-melta & a power fist? My list looks as follows: Wolf Lord - TDA, Wolfclaw, Wolftooth Necklace, Wolf Tail Talisman Rune Priest - Jump Pack, Chooser Wolf Priest - TDA, Wolf Tail Talisman Wolf Guard x4 - TDA x4, Combi-Plas x2, Combi-Melta, Wolf Claw, Chain Fist. - in Drop Pod Dreadnought - Heavy Flamer, Multi-melta - in Drop Pod Grey Hunters - x10, Melta x2, Power Fist, MotW. Wolf Standard - in Rhino Grey Hunters - x8, Plasma, power weapon, MotW, Wolf Standard - Wolf Guard - Combi-Plas, Thunder hammer - in Rhino Grey Hunters - x5, Plasma, Wolf Standard - Wolf Guard - combi-plas - in Razorback - Las/Plas Blood Claws - x15, Flamer x2, Power Fist Landspeeder - multi-melta Thunderwolf Cav - x3, Plasma Pistol Vindicator Long Fangs - x6, x3 ML, x2 LC - in Razorback - Las/Plas Long Fangs - x5, x2 HB, x2 PC - in Razorback - Las/Plas BTW: Wolf Lord runs w/ the WG pack, Wolf Priest w/ the BC pack (yes I know they can't sweeping advance but trust me, the TDA has been a HUGE benefit up against major gunlines). The pros as I see them to the change: maintain 2 melta shots for a turn, 2 power fists, Ld 9, same # of base attacks as 2 GH The cons: 1 melta shot is 1 shot only, 1 fewer bodies, 2 fewer attacks on the charge/counter i would take the WG for 2 reasons. 1 it bumps you up past 5 for the heavy weapon to go with your lord. 2 is that by the time you are in melta range chances are you will only get to shoot 2 meltas once in a game before being throne into close combat. on the off chance you make it through that to shoot meltas again on ought to be enough. i find the extra attack from the PF comes in more "handy" (couldnt resist). one last note. i know it does not look as cool but i would put your WP in runic armor instead of TDA. its the same coverage (2+4+) with a 5+ against psycic attacks and the sweeping advance and and extra atack because of the bolt pistol instead of the storm bolter..... just my 3 cents. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238370-2-meltas-or-wolf-guard/#findComment-2875339 Share on other sites More sharing options...
red_starrise Posted September 14, 2011 Author Share Posted September 14, 2011 To be honest, you probably won't notice any significant difference in effectiveness regardless the choice that you make. Mostly the full 10 man vice the 9+1 comes down to personal preference. One other thing that 5th Wolf Guard would do is give you access to a Heavy Weapon for one of your WGTs, though, so it might be worth the change for that reason alone (if you can adjust elsewhere to scrape up points for a CML or Assault Cannon (or even a dirt-cheap Heavy Flamer). One unrelated question though- why the Jump Pack on the Rune Priest? Who does he travel with? What is your intent for him? Valerian The Rune Priest's function is manyfold. He's always equipped w/ the jump pack. What he does very well for me w/ it in every game is to provide a constant mobile threat. The jump pack ensures he's able to get where I need him quickly & hammer the enemy w/ his psychic powers & if need-be, join in an assault w/ an effective 18" assault range (move 12" fire off living lightning, assault 6"). Plus he is excellent for contesting or even clearing any last-minute objectives even tho he can't occupy. He has never let me down or failed to kill his points in a game. You definitely make a good point on the TDA heavy weapon tho, I'll have to think on that one a bit. And yes guys, I know the limitations of the TDA Wolf Priest & I may toy w/ swapping him out once I have a suitable model but, for the meantime he does his job well & I like the model I built lol. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238370-2-meltas-or-wolf-guard/#findComment-2875484 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Durendal Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Short Answer: Listen to Bro Ramses. Depends on play style. Long Answer: There was a HUGE debate regarding this a month or so back which arrived at the conclusion of: whatever your playstyle is. Really just ask yourself some simple questions like: do you want your guys to stick around longer? Do you want guaranteed and continuous melta gun shots? Do you want some reliability in CC? Answering questions like that will help guide you to what's best for you Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238370-2-meltas-or-wolf-guard/#findComment-2875656 Share on other sites More sharing options...
techmarine Azuris Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 I run 10xGH 2 plas PF Motw and banner in rhino and numerous usually 2-3 RB squads 5 + melta and Cmelta + PF WG :) best way Ive found to run em :) altho the 10GH works just as well tbh with melta or plas used both, so yknow it can work too :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238370-2-meltas-or-wolf-guard/#findComment-2875659 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Johnson the 3rd jr Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 All I know is, is that a powerfist on a GH is not worth it compared to one on a WG. I mean really, 40 point model, one base attack? No thanks. So if you require a powerfist, you really should go with the Wolf Guard. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238370-2-meltas-or-wolf-guard/#findComment-2875675 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalachiOfRuss Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Yeah, swap out that WP in TDA for one in Runic Armor as soon as you have the model. Both armor choices are the same points value, and you lose way more taking TDA than taking Runic armor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238370-2-meltas-or-wolf-guard/#findComment-2875681 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 All I know is, is that a powerfist on a GH is not worth it compared to one on a WG. I mean really, 40 point model, one base attack? No thanks. So if you require a powerfist, you really should go with the Wolf Guard. To expand on this a little further - GH w/ Power fist = 1 attack @ S8 I1 for 40pts, WG w/ Power fist = 2 attacks @ S8 I1 for 38pts, WG w/ Thunderhammer = 2 attacks @ S8 I1 for 43pts and you get the added disruptive potential of the T-hammer. While I usually am not a big fan of the T-hammer from a cost/benefit viewpoint I do like the look of a model w/ hammer over fist. And I'm willing to pay +3pts for those benefits and the +1A, +1Ld that the WG brings. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238370-2-meltas-or-wolf-guard/#findComment-2876200 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Drunk Guardian Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 What do you want your Grey Hunters to do? If they're going to be used as defensive "zone shooters" or midfield holders, then just run 10 with 2 Plasma Guns, and keep a Thunderwolf Pack with a Thunder Hammer nearby to act as a counter attack should something get close enough to your Hunters to get into combat with them. If you're going to use your Hunters offensively, then you get more punch out of the power fist, more reliable leadership (all around more important if you're fixing to get into combat), and meltaguns can (sort of) act as bolt pistols on the charge (assault weapon, 12" range). Also, with the severely short range of a meltagun (I'm thinking 6" rather than 12" if you're looking to pop armor) it makes more sense to spend that odd extra 5 points at the end of your list on a combi-melta. In an offensive unit like this, I'd probably also include a PW, a MotW, and/or a Rune Priest. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238370-2-meltas-or-wolf-guard/#findComment-2876253 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerwulf Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 I often play against monstrous creatures, Death Guard and other nasties. When the new codex came out I only ever played with full 10 men squads with power weapons. Then I switched to WG with combi weapons and PF. Then I started exchanging the PW of the GH with PF. Never looked back.... Yes, I pay through my nose for it... but having two PFs in a squad with 5 attacks on a charge has saved my butt countless times. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238370-2-meltas-or-wolf-guard/#findComment-2876830 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 Yes, I pay through my nose for it... but having two PFs in a squad with 5 attacks on a charge has saved my butt countless times. I've got several double-Fist packs as well; definitely worthwhile for the units that you plan on really getting stuck in to close combat. V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238370-2-meltas-or-wolf-guard/#findComment-2876865 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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