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Dan Abnett, Horus Heresy and the Battle of Calth


Artein

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I hope that they don't touch the Legion of the Damned with the Heresy series. It's far too obvious to link them to the Legions and although I'm a firm believer in the Fire Hawks theory it should be left to people to decide for themselves.
Any cliffs for those to lazy to watch em?

Calth is confirmed as being in the Veridan sector.

At the time the Ultramarines have over 250,000 combat marines of which around 200,000 are available with the rest defending Ultramar and elsewhere.

The Word Bearers have over 150,000 marines with around 50,000 taking part in the attack. The rest of course went to Istvaan V to take part in the dropsite massacre. The Word Bearers army will include millions of cultists and huge numbers of demons and will have more firepower than the Ultramarines at Calth.

 

By combat marines I'm assuming marines that fight on "foot". Marines serving as crews and in the legion hierarchy such as chaplains and bodyguards are more again.

The Word Bearers have over 150,000 marines with around 50,000 taking part in the attack. The rest of course went to Istvaan V to take part in the dropsite massacre.

 

Not quite.

 

You know too much...LOL! I remember a commercial where Kimi Raikkonen and Juan Pablo Montoya were talking about the best job in the world being an F1 driver....I think you have them beat though!

 

Also I agree with Doghouse, I hope they don't change the Legion of the Damned fluff/theory. It would be quite a Shyamalan twist if they were one of the lost Legions though.

Attack on Calth is after Istvan IV

 

Found them to be quite inciteful in terms of BL's approach toward developing the next aspect of the Heresy timeline (following Age of Darkness upto the Siege of Terra) and also, interesting to know that "Know no fear" will have a similar flow/feel as a Space Marine Battle series novel

The Word Bearers have over 150,000 marines with around 50,000 taking part in the attack. The rest of course went to Istvaan V to take part in the dropsite massacre.

 

Not quite.

 

 

I believe, correct me if I am wrong, that the full Word Bearer force (apart from a single contingent kept at Terra to create an illusion of loyalty) were present at Isstvaan. After the dropsite massacre the force split, with Kor Phaeron taking a large chunk to Calth (with a ridiculous number of daemons and cultists), whilst Lorgar and the rest went to Terra (or at least started the circuitous route of destruction that would end up taking them there).

I just hope he does the Ultramarines justice

 

In an ideal world:

 

The Ultramarines are examined as characters, given a clearly defined flaw (hopefully arrogance or politicking). They are not Mary-Sues, but they are incredibly professional and better soldiers than the WB, who are aided by Gods and daemons.

 

The Codex is portrayed sensibly (i.e, like an American Field Manual or The Art of War).

 

Guilliman administers a severe beatdown to Lorgar.

The Codex is portrayed sensibly (i.e, like an American Field Manual or The Art of War).

Unfortunately the Horus heresy series has retconned the Codex Astartes out of the Great Crusade. Now Guilliman has apparently only started writing it as a reaction to the attack on calth. So the novel will probably not include anything on the Codex at all. Unless it ends with Guilliman sayng "I think I have to write a book now".

 

 

After the dropsite massacre the force split, with Kor Phaeron taking a large chunk to Calth (with a ridiculous number of daemons and cultists), whilst Lorgar and the rest went to Terra (or at least started the circuitous route of destruction that would end up taking them there).
Guilliman administers a severe beatdown to Lorgar.

The account of the attack on Calth as described in the IA:WB mentions neither Lorgar nor Guilliman, instead naming Kor Phaeron and Captain Ventanus as the protagonists on the respective sides. 'Collected Visions' has included Guilliman as leading the space battle, and it also mentions Lorgar as being involved. (Kor Phaeron and Captain Ventanus are still given as the leaders of the ground forces on Calth.) We will see what Abnett will go with, but I expect a bit of picking and choosing, i.e. Guilliman will probably be there, but Lorgar might not.

The Word Bearers have over 150,000 marines with around 50,000 taking part in the attack. The rest of course went to Istvaan V to take part in the dropsite massacre.

 

Not quite.

 

Alrighty then, I know better than to ask but can we expect some sort of timeline to firm up the events in relation to each other at some point, a companion to the heresy sort of thing?

The Word Bearers have over 150,000 marines with around 50,000 taking part in the attack. The rest of course went to Istvaan V to take part in the dropsite massacre.

 

Not quite.

 

Alrighty then, I know better than to ask but can we expect some sort of timeline to firm up the events in relation to each other at some point, a companion to the heresy sort of thing?

 

I don't know. But I know the novel series will explain all of this, so it's all good.

The Ultramarines are examined as characters, given a clearly defined flaw (hopefully arrogance or politicking). They are not Mary-Sues, but they are incredibly professional and better soldiers than the WB, who are aided by Gods and daemons.

 

The Codex is portrayed sensibly (i.e, like an American Field Manual or The Art of War).

 

Guilliman administers a severe beatdown to Lorgar.

 

Agreed save for that last one. I would rather see some kind of even battle rather than a one sided curb stomp of a fight.

If it's an "as clean as it gets" one-on-one fight, a curbstomp would be pretty far-fetched, now that Lorgar has become a badass (although a rather boastful one that has to be reminded by Magnus what "psychic" means). In that sense, Guilliman himself isn't exactly known for his battle-prowess either. The best part of a fight between the two, I believe, would be seeing Lorgar release his hate for the Ultramarines and Guilliman having to break out of his stone-clad formality.
Guilliman is already rumoured to have killed two Primarchs. Allegedly. Possibly. Would not surprise me in the least if he would defeat Lorgar. However, we will not see a fight between Lorgar and Guilliman. The ground attack on Calth was led by Kor Phaeron, not Lorgar, and the defense of Calth was led by Captain Ventanus, not Guilliman. Lorgar and Guilliman were directing the space battles. Dan may not even include Lorgar at all, instead deciding that he went with the Word Bearers that went to Terra, however, the Collected Visions book said that he was present.
I couldn't find anything about Guilliman besting Daemon-Fulgrim in combat, only the knife to the neck thing...Can someone give a bit more info on that?

 

The IA describes how the Emperor's Children and Fulgrim disappeared after the one-on-one, so it is possible that Guilliman either banished Fulgrim or severely wounded him, to the extent that he couldn't keep fighting.

 

Here is the text (roughly):

 

"No one can say for sure what happened, but when the cloying musks cleared Guilliman lay mortally wounded and the EC had gone."

 

Presumably, something made the Emperor's Children retreat (why didn't they slaughter the rest of the presumably very demoralized Ultramarines). A possible (and plausible) explanation would be that Guilliman suceeded in banishing Fulgrim despite his neck injury.

 

 

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CL

 

Agreed save for that last one. I would rather see some kind of even battle rather than a one sided curb stomp of a fight.

 

I meant an even fight. But one that RG wins. Of course, Lorgar might not be there, in which case I would like to see Kor Phaeron hurt.

That is why I said "possibly". The fluff doesn't say "he killed Fulgrim". The fluff only vaguely says that after their duel, Fulgrim had disappeared and Guilliman was found with a single slash of blood across his throad. Of course, a possible explanation is that Fulgrim just decided to leave after having delivered the poisoned strike, to mock the Ultramarines, or for whatever reason. Another possible exlanation (which certainly would fit the "heroic" style story telling of 40K) is that Guilliman in turn managed to mortally wound Fulgrim and to banish him, while himself suffering the poisoned wound.

 

Either way, it is fitting for Guilliman's "roman/greek" background that he had first been fighting the "Hydra" and then a giant serpent.

 

Edit: This just occurred to me. As a result to his fight against Fulgrim, Guilliman had been put into stasis. This is analogue to a fight against the Medusa. Instead of being turned to stone, Guilliman is now in stasis.

I hope that they don't touch the Legion of the Damned with the Heresy series. It's far too obvious to link them to the Legions and although I'm a firm believer in the Fire Hawks theory it should be left to people to decide for themselves.

 

Maybe Legion of the Damned fans should read The Chapter's Due. I think the Fire Hawks theory is all but dead going by the connection between that book in "present day" 40K and the Battle for Calth during the Heresy...

Edit: This just occurred to me. As a result to his fight against Fulgrim, Guilliman had been put into stasis. This is analogue to a fight against the Medusa. Instead of being turned to stone, Guilliman is now in stasis.

It's closer to elements in the King Arthur myth. King Arthur fights the traitor Mordred and is mortally wounded. Only by being taken to the Isle of Avalon where his wounds can be tended can he survive. Now he sleeps until he is needed once again (Lion El-Jonson fits in with this too). There is also the part where Merlin is imprisoned within ice by his rival and there he still resides.

Interesting take on it though with the medusa angle.

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