New blood, too often spilt

[Brother Immolator]

Well, I'm a pessimist. If I do things expecting the worst, then I'm rarely surprised when everything goes under. Might seem a bad way to live, but it suits my needs and life situation just fine. Didn't help I was in a foul mood when I wrote that one long post.. Also, I'm actually seeing slight improvements overall in my playstyle, just not enough to ensure victory. Obviously, I still have a lot of rough edges in need of polish.

 

But tell me.. what are these Arenas of Death you speak of?

 

A pessimist is well informed optimist as they say.Dont worry you will get the hang of it.Also that list isnt designed to take hordes.Hordes need stormbolters and heavy flamers IMHO.

[Brother Kovash]

Thanks Grand Master Belial, I could not have put it better. I've been playing with my Deathwing army for over a year now, and I've learned how to handle most situations as they come. I've also learned to have confidence in my army but at the same time not take things too seriously. You win games and you lose games, that's just how it goes.

 

Monday I was able to play 3 games with the same list, and this time I was able to win all 3. My first game was against vanilla Marines, and my opponent was using:

 

Chapter Master with TDA (HQ)

Scouts with sniper rifles and Sergeant Telion

Tactical Squad with Meltagun, Lascannon and Powerfist (split into combat squads)

Terminator Squad with CML

Land Raider with Multi-melta and Hunter Killer missile

 

We played pitched battle and annihilation. This game I chose to hold everything in reserve to see if that could mitigate some of the damage. I also let my opponent go first. The squad with my HQ deep struck, took a few wounds but I saved them all. Second turn I failed both reserve rolls, so my squad was all alone out there, but after taking heavy fire I only lost 1 termie to a lascannon. I was able to charge a combat squad and wipe them out.

 

Third turn my opponents Telion singled out my CML termie and took him down, but I was able to save everything else. I rolled successfully for the Land Raider holding my other squad and dreadnought to come in, and both moved up. On my turn I was able to charge her terminator squad, killing two and taking no wounds. Fourth turn she aimed her Land Raider at my own, but failed to penetrate the armor. I moved both the raider and the dread up again, taking a few shots but failing to kill anything. My HQ squad finished off her terminator squad and consolidated towards her scout squad.

 

Fifth turn my opponent shot her snipers at my HQ squad, wounding the captain but nothing else. During my turn I moved the Land Raider up and disembarked; during the assault phase I charge the last combat squad and her scouts, wiping out the combat squad but only killing 3 scouts, and she passed leadership. At this point she conceded, because I had only lost 2 terminators the whole game.

 

My second game was against my buddy with his Space Wolves. He played a very surprising list, containing:

 

Njarl the Stormcaller with TDA (HQ)

2 Lone Wolves both with power weapon and plasma pistol

2 10-man Grey Hunter squads with 2 plasma guns each

10-man Wolf Guard squad with terminator armor and power weapons

 

To keep things simple we played pitched battle and annihilation. I won the roll and chose to go first, deploying everything close to each other, dreadnought behind my HQ squad. During his turn he killed 1 termie with Living Lightning from Njarl, and another with his storm bolter fire. With his two squads firing on my HQ squad, he caused an insane amount of wounds, and I saved all but two.

 

Second turn I moved everything up and disembarked the squad inside the Land Raider. Shooting phased and opened fired on his Grey Hunter squad with everything I had, killing only 2. I also used the lascannon with the Power of the Machine Spirit to get 1 wound on his Lone Wolf. Assault phase I charged and dealt exactly 9 wounds, killing the whole squad including Njarl. However, I rolled a 1 to consolidate, enabling my opponent to charge me next turn. He did so with his Wolf Guard and 1 Lone Wolf, killing all but 1. I hit back and killed 2, but failed one of my fearless rolls, so that squad was gone. My friend did a very clever thing, positioning his Lone Wolf in front of his Wolf Guard so I didn't have a clear lane to charge him next turn.

 

Third turn I moved up again, using the lascannon on my dread to take out the Lone Wolf, clearing the way for my HQ squad. I a lot of wounds with frag missiles from my CML, as well as a few more from the Land Raider, and he failed 4 saves. Charging the Wolf Guard during my assault phase, he went first with his power weapons and killed 2 of my termies and put 1 wound on my captain, but I killed 3 in return so we tied. During his turn he moved his other Lone Wolf and Grey Hunters up, but they were too far to join the combat. He rolled a few wounds during the combat phase which I saved, and I then finished off his Wolf Guard and consolidated towards the last Grey Hunter squad.

 

Turn 4 was just moving closer to each other and shooting, he caused no wounds and I killed 1 Grey Hunter while he lost another to rolling a 1 with a plasma gun. On turn 5 I was able to move my dread close enough to use his heavy flamer, killing 1 and another with the lascannon, and then charging with the dread and my termies. He went first, killing nothing and I then killed 5 of his guys. During his combat phase I killed the last of the Grey Hunters and the game was over.

 

It's worth nothing that my buddy rolled for and got the counter-attack with each squad that I assaulted this game, and they helped him big time with the Wolf Guard because they have power weapons.

 

Both games went as well as I could have hoped for, and the first game I did extremely well. I have another report to post, but I'll do that later so everyone can digest these battle reports. I'm open to any critiques and criticisms you guys have, because playing at this point level is something I almost never do. I think having at least a few terminators with storm bolters would help, but there's no denying that the storm shields come in handy, and you'll see why in my next report against a Chaos Daemon army.

[Grand Master Raziel]

When I first started playing, I lost every single game I played for a whole year. I think it safe to say that, while most of the experienced players probably did a little better than me when they started out, we've all got a pretty similar story about our early performance. So, don't worry, we all know what it's like.

[Brother Immolator]

SO it would appear that the list can handle most of opponents,but has a horde problem right?

 

Also Brother Kovash,have you found the mythical tabletop beast named female?

Playing marines no less?Interesting.

[Brother dean]

What are the virtues of splitting tacs into combat squads and using razorbacks for transporting the melta-bearing squad, and how does it compare to the humbler rhino? I imagine that it's better to take a TLHB razor if I'm using it to transport meltas?

 

 

The upside is you get 2 heavy weapons in 1 Troops slot. The downsides are the increased cost, the loss of the firing point, and not being able to transport the whole squad should you want to keep it as one unit. It's a judgement call, but I will say that usually I opt for the Rhino.

 

That said, in this area we have one minor advantage over the later dexes - we can take a special weapon in a 5-man Tac Squad. This lets you have the meltagun and the Razorback both w/o needing to leave a 5-man squad sitting around somewhere because they won't fit in the track.

@ everyone: It's traditionally called "Ironwing" not "Greenwing"...

 

Never footslog tacticals unless they are behind the rhinos for moving cover. My buddy igknot runs his 12" first turn and keeps his thunderwolves behind them to save them from shooting. Sure the Rhinos have paper mache armor but there is only a 1 in 6 chance that the cover they add will be removed completely and a 2 in 6 chance that it will become stationary cover, and a 50% chance it'll be fine for next turn of fire magnet). (Dont forget to roll to fix immobilization each turn. Getting that tank back that your opponent thought he had killed is a major distraction.)

Please also remember we have the cheapest Rhinos in the game. You can tack a 2nd storm bolter on the Rhino and have a Mini Razorback (4 shooting dice vs 3 with a TL re-roll) that still has a fire point to shoot the melta out the back for less than the other guys basic Rhino. (and a 2nd weapon destroyed result instead of it bumping to Immobilized.)

 

And if you are clever and buy only Razorback kits you can build it to be switchable to either a Rhino or Razorback whatever your list requires.

[Brother Kovash]

SO it would appear that the list can handle most of opponents,but has a horde problem right?

 

Also Brother Kovash,have you found the mythical tabletop beast named female?

Playing marines no less?Interesting.

 

Yea the list did very well last time around, I didn't expect to beat my friend playing with his Space Wolves. When he said he was using 10 Wolf Guard my jaw literally hit the floor. I forgot to mention he used Jaws of the War Wolf on me, but I passed both tests.

 

As for the female, she doesn't play that often, but she knows what she's doing. If she played more consistently then she would pick up certain things that we all have learned with experience.

[WatchCaptainAzrael]

A victory against the space wolves? I'm feeling a little more reassured about my list building skills. xD

 

And let us not gape at the opposite sex in the battle arena, brothers. It is unbecoming of knightly robed gentlemen such as we.

[Brother Immolator]

I didnt mean to be insulting to the rare species but lets face it:they are just that in the hobby.

 

My info so far points out that Deathwing>Loganwing as well as it should.

[Bringer of Redemption]

I appear to be a bit late to the conversation, but I have to second what GMR said: Everyone looses a lot at the beginning. In point of fact, I still lose a lot. Some of this is probably because I play with a small group, and we react to changes in eachothers strategies quickly.

 

Anyways, that being said, for much of the last 2 or so years I was playing fairly low point games, most often against nids, and I think some of the problem is that when you're playing at 1000 points or lower, the DA have problems putting enough boots on the ground to effectively fight hordes. Your greenwing list might have better luck, since it's more mobile and has more troops. I ran a similar list for a long time, and I found that if you can find the points somewhere, you're much better off with one predator and one whirlwind. You might also want to forgo the razorbacks in favor of rhinos, but that's personal preference.

 

About your deployments skills, there are two things that will help:

 

1. Practice. Deployment is one of the most important parts of the game, but learning to deploy in ways that maximizes your strengths and minimizes your opponents is something that only experience can teach you.

 

2. Knowing your enemy. Read as many of the other codexes as you can. If you know what is what, they you can deploy to counter it.

 

Good luck with future games,

--BoR

[WatchCaptainAzrael]

I didnt mean to be insulting to the rare species but lets face it:they are just that in the hobby.

I know you didn't, we're all joking here. :rolleyes:

 

And it's better to be late than absent, BoR.

[Grand Master Belial]

But tell me.. what are these Arenas of Death you speak of?

 

Arenas of Death are basically two units pitted against each other. For your opponent, take a Tact Squad with Melta and Missile Launcher. Now pick your own unit and if you want, give them a Transport. Set the two units 36" apart and then fight a mini-battle. Now make some changes and fight the battle again with the same opponent. Repeat as necessary. Once you have tweaked that unit to a good shape that snuffs out the opposition fairly consistently, then change out your opponent and try again with something else like a Termagant Horde or something you face off against on the table top (you mentioned a lot of vehicles). They play these mini games until you work out some kinks. Arenas usually don't last more than 20 min each and you get to play as both sides so you can get a feeling for how both units play and that should give you some extra experience.

[WatchCaptainAzrael]

So, in an AoD I managed to lose against myself. Does this count as a moral victory? xD

[Bringer of Redemption]

If you want it to. :D I've found that AoDs tend to work better when there are two different players, though.

 

--BoR

[Brother Kovash]

The Arena's of Death can be fun. It can be a lot of fun using HQs against each other as well, just roll a D6 to see who gets the charge and go from there.

 

Here's the battle report against Chaos Daemons, I didn't have time to post it yesterday.

 

My friend knew exactly what list I was using, so he planned accordingly. He fielded:

 

Fateweaver (HQ)

 

5 Plaguebearers + icon

7 Bloodletters + icon

 

1 Soulgrinder with all upgrades

 

3 Flamers + bolt of Tzeentch

3 Flamers

1 Fiend of Slaanesh + unholy might

 

I won the roll, and since I knew he was going to deep strike his flamers in close, I chose to deploy everything and take my chances of a mishap. Sure enough, on his first turn his flamers with bolt of Tzeentch landed on my HQ squad and got lost in the warp. Kill point for me. He also deep struck his Plaguebearers and his Soulgrinder, everything else he had landed safely. He took a shot at my LR with his Soulgrinder using the daemons tongue, and managed to wreck it! He then used Daemonic Gaze from Fateweaver on the disembarked squad, and killed 1 terminator.

 

Turn 2 I immobilized the Soulgrinder but managed to do nothing else; Fateweaver made all his saves with his re-roll ability. I charged the Fateweaver, he went first and caused no wounds, I caused 5-6 wounds but he saved them all. On his turn he passed all his reserve rolls and deep struck the rest of his army safely. His Plaguebearers charge the squad in combat with the Fateweaver, failing to wound any of my guys, and I managed to kill 3 of them. He also lost 1 due to fearless rolls.

 

Turn 3 I shook the Soulgrinder, but the daemon ignores all shaken and stunned results. During the combat phase I killed the last Plaguebearer, but failed to wound Fateweaver again. During his turn he moved his flamers into position and used breath of chaos on my HQ squad, causing several wounds but I only failed 1 on my captain.

 

Turn 4 I charged the Bloodletters with my dreadnought since they do not have the strength necessary to even glance his armor, and even managed to kill 3 of them. I also charged the flamers with my HQ squad, wiping them out. On his turn he charged the dreadnought with his fiend and only managed to stun it, but in combat walkers ignore shaken and stunned results. The one squad in combat with the Fateweaver lost 1 guy, but I finally managed to cause a wound, so we tied.

 

Turn 5 I killed the fiend in close combat with the dreadnought, but the Bloodletters landed an insane amount of wounds, and I failed 2 of them with my captain so he died. After this my friend called the game, since he only had 2 units left on the field.

 

My buddy plays his daemon army almost perfectly, and I was surprised I did so well. When his first squad of flamers rolled a 2 on the deep strike mishap table I was very lucky, because even with storm shields on all my guys it would have been tough to save all the wounds they cause. I came away from this game very impressed with the results: maybe all TH/SS armies can be very effective at lower points games, in the 1000-1500 range.

 

 

I hope these games gave you some ideas of how to play. For the most part, I think deploying everything on the field to start is a good strategy, and definitely caught my two friends by surprise. If you have the opportunity, pick up some more terminators so you can play in higher points games.

[WatchCaptainAzrael]

In this hand of mine lies a bag of powdered cat nails, I use it to summon thee back to life, my thread! Rise.. Rise by the power of threadomancy and spread misery across the board!

 

...

 

Yeah, I kinda got caught up with other, slightly more vital things and let my studies in Unforgiven combat arts to neglect. Greenwing list I came up with.

 

Razorwing (1000pts Total)

Selections:

HQ (100pts)

Company Master (100pts)

Bolt Pistol, Chainsword

 

Troops (540pts)

 

Tactical Squad (170pts)

4 Tactical Marines (100pts)

Meltagun (10pts)

 

Razorback (70pts)

Hunter Killer Missile (15pts), Pintle Storm Bolter (5pts), Twin Heavy Bolters

 

Veteran Sergeant

Bolt Pistol, Chainsword

 

Tactical Squad (185pts)

4 Tactical Marines (100pts)

Meltagun (10pts)

 

Razorback (85pts)

Pintle Storm Bolter (5pts), Twin Lascannons (30pts)

 

Veteran Sergeant

Bolt Pistol, Chainsword

 

Tactical Squad (185pts)

4 Tactical Marines (100pts)

Meltagun (10pts)

 

Razorback (85pts)

Pintle Storm Bolter (5pts), Twin Lascannons (30pts)

 

Veteran Sergeant

Bolt Pistol, Chainsword

 

Heavy Support (360pts)

 

Predator (130pts)

Heavy Bolters (25pts), Twin Linked Lascannon (35pts)

 

Predator (130pts)

Heavy Bolters (25pts), Twin Linked Lascannon (35pts)

 

Whirlwind (100pts)

Hunter Killer Missile (15pts)

 

 

C&C always welcome. I'm wondering if I didn't overdo it with the razor spam. On one hand, it has a lot of anti-tank fire power... On the other it's also kinda vulnerable to it.