Inquisitorial Warbands

[Gunslinger87]

I know 40K deals mostly with skirmishes, but does anyone else find it strange when he sees an all-inquisition army with 40 henchmen?

 

Now I must admit I have only ever read the Eisenhorn and Ravenor series as well as the Deathwatch RPG in terms of proper inquisition fluff (and the horrible new codex) but am I the only one thinking henchmen are really specialists with particular skills and not an army? I find it difficult to believe an "army" of arbites, bountyhunters, arcobats, savants, guardsman vets, infromation gatherers and whatnot could fight a pitched battle againts the imperial guard, or even space marines (ignore the heresy, im talking generally about an army, or specialized military force). That is exactly when the inquisition calls those particular forces in. An army of henchmen seems like a ludicrous idea to me. The rule that allows henchmen to be fielded ignoring the inquisitor count is probably specifically aimed to allow this, but I have repeatedly wondered why.

 

Just imagine, a chaos ARMY led by a somebody like Abaddon is on the table... faced against a rag tag team of an inquisitor and some horrible combination of henchmen that has no logical explanation in the 40K world and gets completely wiped out. Now even ignoring the rules (and perhaps making me look less like a complaining chaos player which I am not) while codexes generally allow for completely unfluffy armies, I think this one simply calls out for it.

 

Now thats not to say that there arent interesting options in the Inquisition part of the GK codex (the orbital bombardment of own units is amongst the peaks of creativity on Wards part in my opinion) but why encourage something so illogical. Its one thing if it allows someone fielding an all arbites force within the rules (which sort of makes sense, though again, IG or PDF would probably come in at that point) but something completely different if a particular other henchman is spammed.

 

How about a limit? Max 3 psykers in one squad of henchman, only one assasin, etc.

 

Would it EVER make sense for an inquisitor to have several henchmen with the same skill and none with another? (and yes, I know the likes of Eisenhorn had a hundred people under his employ and could probably string together a squad of 10 snipers or something (and I can already hear that the likes of Coteaz are probably much more powerful in the great scheme of things), but when a Grand Master of the Ordos of a Sector has never seen a daemonhost (last eisenhorn book btw)... the possibility of having 10 in a squad seems strange at the very least. Not that I would ever recommend such a squad unless you want something that dies spectacularly :-D

 

Stop meeeee. Too many thoughts.

 

So, anybody else think so? Am I barking at the wrong tree? Has this been discussed 10 times over?

[the jeske]

eishorn was not even an inq lord . an INQ lord can command whole regiments of inq troops , has control over the inq fleet in that sector[which means at least 60-80k man per capital ship] . Look at the inq in lord of the night . He is not a lord but has with him enough man to form an ad hoc force of 30+man [and those was just part of his troops].

[Crynn]

I think you make somevalid points however many inquisitors have personal guards and their own forces they can requresition to their cause,. Yes you can make some strange henchman units that aren't particularly fluffy but it adds depth to the table top game and to the ability to create multiple armies leaving a codex with option and not a 1 list bandwagon (sisters I'm looking at you)

 

Now Coteaz is as you said a good example of an inquistor who could pull together a massive fighting force capable of pitched battles, infact I'm guessing he has more that one ready at any one time however other inquistors work much mroe as you describe by having only their person bodyguards working with them. Rememebr it is only coteaz that lets you take a whole army based around them. You can still however make a proper army out of henchmen. Many men and women join the imperiums fighting force, some are even great warriors who were undiscovered by marine chapters or were to old for initiation. Some of these guys become personal guards jacked up on drugs, bionics trained far beyong a guardsman equivilant and become elite warriors in their own right. Other warriors may just include veteran warriors. These units can be well represented by the henchman warpands. Lets say coteaz's standing force that is quelling a deamon incursion, Each unit lead of elite guardsmen is lead by a personal advisor, bodyguard, sargent, general whatever and is equipped for the task at hand. The squad may look along the the lines of sargent with carapace armour and a stormbolter 2x henchman with plasma guns, 8 henchman with hotshot lasguns and a banisher as these veterans are fighting deamons.

 

Coteaz's personal body guard. 1x henchman with power armour and power fist 2x deathcult assassin, 2x crusadrer, 2x henchman with plasma guns and power armour, 5 henchmen in carapace armour with boltguns.

 

Elite Inquisitor unit 5x henchman in power armour with boltguns, 3x henchman in power armour with assorted special weapons 1 flamer, 1 plasma, 1 powerfist. 3x crusader.

 

Now these untis are by no means point efficient but represent some battle worthy units that in fluff would be able to hit the field.

 

Just some quick thoughts, I do agree that you can make some weird completely out of fluff henchman units though.

 

Regards,

Crynn

[Chengar Qordath]

Not to mention that the scale of tabletop is generally much more geared towards small strike forces than massive armies anyway. Even fielding Coteaz, maxing out warbands and adding second Inquisitor+warband gives a grand total of less than a hundred people. On the scale the 40k universe operates on, that's a tiny force.

[Gunslinger87]

Some good points, however you cant really call them skirmishes if they include Abaddon, Calgar, Khârn, Ghazkul or whoever else. In that sense, I just dont see inquisitors as a martial force. Hence why the militant branch of each Ordo is Grey Knights, Deathwatch and SoB. In other cases, requisitioning forces as they seem fit. Why would they ever need to requisition forces if they had their own personal armies.

 

PS The lists you have made are far from those I was talking about and completely justifiable. However, those arent usually the ones you see on the table am I right?

 

Im not trying to say that Inquisitors lack the power or ability to form these sized armies, just that they have very little reason to do so. A stealthy assasin or able arbites, a powerful psyker or even a savant with no combat skills whatsoever are probably much more useful for an Inquisitor than an army (bar a few bodyguards) that he or she can simply request and claim from any imperial commander.

 

In Coteazs particular case, so be it, but even when creating a retinue for a regular inquisitor, there should be some logical restriction. You also cant have more than one chapter banner on the table, or you cant give your honour guard a meltagun or whatever even though there is no logical reason for not being able to do so in the second case. It shows that some things are restricted by fluff, others for gaming purposes... except for inq. henchmen. No fluff restriction... and certainly no gaming restriction.

 

Why a henchman has access to more types of equipment than a member of the honour guard of a chapter who is claimed by the fluff to be the senior of even some company captains just doesnt make sense.

 

But again, I didnt want this to be a rant. You guys make great points, I just wanted to know if people felt the same. Or conversely, if they were happy for the wide choice it provides. I too like the possibility for scope... but lets face it. I dont think we will see many demonhosts unless the person is playing for best painted with a themed army etc. As with regular laws, game rules should specifically look for places where something can be exploited and in most cases the rulemakers seem to be doing a good job (no matter how much we complain, even a horrible codex can do well againts GK, IG or SW when the dice go well, or the game surprisingly ends at turn 5 with the overpowering army still not claiming enough objectives etc.) so why not restrict Inq. Henchmen?

 

PS I recently drew a battle with an experimental list that spliced together all of the slaanesh units my brother has against a well versed SW player in my area who probably has 20 games to each of my own. My list was neither competitive, nor did I fail to make mistakes and played a brilliant game, nor was his rolling that bad either. Everything is balanced enough that nothing outright makes a game unenjoyable, so again, please dont take this for a rant against the codex.

[Marid]

i like to imagine that an inquisitor can maintain a small force of say 100 men and support vehicles that he brings in a small starship. These remain in orbit on secretive missions until needed for a sudden strike or can be used as a display of force, especially on a lesser world. Even during large battles inquisitors have objectives that are not those of local or IG armies. This is less practical gamewise because unless you bring Coteaz you have to take GKs for troops. DH was a better codex for inquisition armies theme-wise.

 

I only wish that the gave us shotguns as an option for fielding arbites in the new GK codex. I really don't want to strip the shotguns off my Enforcers.

[Dr von Hohenheim]

you cant really call them skirmishes if they include Abaddon, Calgar, Khârn, Ghazkul or whoever else.

 

 

Surely the fluff problem is with those special characters making an appearance in a fight between small warbands?

 

Here comes Abaddon and his Black Crusade of two dozen men! Run!

[The Holy Heretic]

I heartily agree with the OP.

 

The old rules of having storm troopers as troop options and retinues for inquisitors made a lot more sense + I really loathe being forced into using a special character in my games, and my krieg grenadiers really dislike losing their 'elite' stats :P

 

Don't get me wrong, I like the dex as is, but I'd prefer, if we'd kept stormtroopers as troops, gotten the inquisitors as elite, and had the Inquisition SCs as HQ choices.

 

+ I really liked the thought of requisitioning the local PDFs for a top secret mission, executing them afterwards and then informing the planetary governor that this never happened, and any mentioning of the incident on his part would result in the microbombs swimming through his arteries to explode :(

[Iron Lord]

i like to imagine that an inquisitor can maintain a small force of say 100 men and support vehicles that he brings in a small starship. These remain in orbit on secretive missions until needed for a sudden strike or can be used as a display of force, especially on a lesser world. Even during large battles inquisitors have objectives that are not those of local or IG armies. This is less practical gamewise because unless you bring Coteaz you have to take GKs for troops. DH was a better codex for inquisition armies theme-wise.

 

I only wish that the gave us shotguns as an option for fielding arbites in the new GK codex. I really don't want to strip the shotguns off my Enforcers.

 

"Counts as" bolters or storm bolters?

[Inquisitor Fox]

Actually mechanics wise a shotgun with manstopper rounds isn't THAT far removed from a stormbolter... I mean, half the range and less AP, but if you figure the Inquisition has better shotguns.. perhaps they were "pretinkered" with by a Jokaero in another unit fluffwise?

 

Remember you can use Inquisitorial warbands to represent units stolen from other forces! You can easily use them to represent an Imperial Guardsmen squad or three, a squad of Storm Troopers, a local PDF garrison, etc. Personally I really wish I could still use my ISTs without Coteaz or an Apocalypse game (my 40 ISTs wish to file a grievance!) but the rules as written are pretty flexible. The problem is willingly constraining yourself instead of trying to min/max the rules for pure powergaming reasons. Many people aren't willing to do that.

[Valkyrion]

40k games aren't skirmishes as such, but the part of the battle that the players are focusing on.

Your 1500 point games are a snapshot of a 15,000,000 point game thats occuring, if you get my meaning, and in such instances then it is entirely appropriate that Abaddon will seek out Calgar then the Sanguinor shows up and kills the Swarmlord because the game you play is the important part of a bigger event.

[Dr von Hohenheim]

40k games aren't skirmishes as such, but the part of the battle that the players are focusing on.

 

I don't think the rulebook ever says that.

 

I prefer to think of them as skirmishes anyway. Full-scale battles are better handled by the epic system.

[Larkyn]

40k games aren't skirmishes as such, but the part of the battle that the players are focusing on.

 

I don't think the rulebook ever says that.

 

The rulebook never says a lot of stuff. Like where to find the best restaurant on Macragge.

 

I think, in the end, fluff =/= rules. Just because you CAN field 40 henchmen according to the rules, doesn't necessarily mean you'll see them on the field in the fluff.

[Chengar Qordath]

I'm pretty sure 40k battles can be skirmishes or just one small part of a larger battle; it's up tot the players to decide what they want.

[Dr von Hohenheim]

Just because you CAN field 40 henchmen according to the rules, doesn't necessarily mean you'll see them on the field in the fluff.

 

...or that you wouldn't.

 

But it's a very peculiar thing to complain about.

 

 

It's only an issue because the book denies us the us of Imperial Guard troops, despite making a big fuss about all the resources inquisitors supposedly have access to.

[Valkyrion]

The rulebook doesn't say it because it isn't a rule. You can play 40k however you like, but White Dwarf articles and editorials have often stated that the games we play are part of a bigger picture, not the picture in it's entirety.

So when you get Abaddon vs Calgar it isn't that they've just come across each other by random, it's that its the focal point of a bigger battle being fought.

 

That isn't to say that the battles can't be skirmishes, rather that they aren't all skirmishes.

 

The resources available to Inquisitors have been made available to GK players in the form of Apocalypse. That makes more fluff sense than just having access to a squad or single platoon - the Inquisitor calls upon a full tank company and a thousand guardsmen, not just 20 and a leman russ.

[Dr von Hohenheim]

The resources available to Inquisitors have been made available to GK players in the form of Apocalypse. That makes more fluff sense than just having access to a squad or single platoon - the Inquisitor calls upon a full tank company and a thousand guardsmen, not just 20 and a leman russ.

 

 

But he can have as many impossibly valuable Grey Knights as he wants... just not a few dozen guardsmen.

 

Or a refractor field.

 

 

 

 

 

The rulebook doesn't say it because it isn't a rule.

 

I know. My point was that you stated it as if it were a rule.

[Inquisitor Apropos]

Or a refractor field.

 

I was always fond of the Displacer Fields, myself.

 

Now, as to the OPs thoughts on it being 'weird' for an inquisitor to field an 'army' of all henchmen, why would it be 'unfluffy'? Is it so hard to beleive that an Inquisitor would choose 60 hand picked highly trained mission specialists to carry out his will, as opposed to conscripting the half trained buffoons of the local PDF to shoot each other in the back and himself in the foot at the same time?

 

As for why he might bring his band of motley misfits instead of a band of Grey Knights... maybe he doesn't want to 'cleanse' everyone who happens to see anything. Maybe there was significant 'undercover' work to be done before the major engagement. Maybe they're trying to avoid a major engagement. Or perhaps the situation has changed rapidly in the field, and there isn't time to wait for them. Warp travel is fast, but not instantaneous, and astropathic communication is not terribly reliable.

 

And on the tabletop, if you want 'conscripted guardsmen', then take your 'accolytes' and give them appropriate gear, and call them conscripted guardsmen. What was the problem again?

[Dexter Kong]

If you are going by the Eisenhorn trilogy as a reference, you should know that later in the books, his retinue had extended to hundreds of agents, including the Distaff. It was only when Pontius Glaw took out 99% of his operation that he was left with a small number of agents again (and a manageable character cast from the stance of Dan Abnett). At the Thracian Primaris Triumph, he describes some of the attending Inquisitors as having massive retinues, and Commodus Voke was famous for being able to rally huge armies behind him in times of need. It should be stressed that not only are the official military arms of the Imperium at the disposal of the Inquisition, but literally any body that falls under Imperial law. What this means is that an Inquisitor can requisition entire death cults, assassin guilds, mercenary companies, acrobat troupes, spy networks, and so on. Eisenhorn and Ravenor tended to have smaller retinues because they had a more subtle and secretive approach to their duties. People like Commodus Voke and Corteaz had all the subtlety of a freight train dis-railing and crashing into a Gay Pride parade.

Anyways, that's just my interpretation of the fluff. Personally I couldn't care less about the rules...

[Elric the Silvercoat]

40k games aren't skirmishes as such, but the part of the battle that the players are focusing on.

Your 1500 point games are a snapshot of a 15,000,000 point game thats occuring, if you get my meaning, and in such instances then it is entirely appropriate that Abaddon will seek out Calgar then the Sanguinor shows up and kills the Swarmlord because the game you play is the important part of a bigger event.

This right here is golden. Always think of your games this way put the whole game into perspective.