GK v Eldar Psyker Attacks

[chrisB1]

Hi folks,

 

Played 1000 pts/4 Obj game against Tournament level Eldar last night and although I took hime to the 6th turn he wiped me out!

 

I had:

 

Libby - 2 skulls, MoT & Shrouding

 

2 x GKT (Each 1 x Incin, 1 x NDH, 4 x Halberd) one squad with (1 x Psicannon)

2 x GKSS (Each 1 x Incin, 1 x Psicannon, 4 x Halberds)

 

1 x Dreadknight (psilencer & Incinerator)

 

He had:

 

Avatar

Psyker lord?

3 x Snipers

3 x Jet bikes

5 x Hvy Wpn

5 x Long Range Hvy wpn

 

I deployed 2 x skulls near his Obj and 2 x GKSS near mine and DK in middle of my DZ.

 

T1 - He didn't move and then He wiped 1 x GKSS in first turn with AP3 shots and his Psyker casting 3 x spells to increase to hit, to wound and re-roll.

I couldnt hit him with anything as he was beyond 24"

 

T2 - he didnt move at all again as all his wpns hvy. He wiped out my other GKSS and tried to kill DK but Inv Saved!

I managed to DS 1 x GKT to 1" of Obj and sprayed his snipers but they had 2++ so no luck! My DK adv and unleashed psilencer on his LR Hvy Wpn and killed 2!!

 

T3 - he moved his avatar twds GKT and again cast all sorts of spells (3 per turn!) making him more accurate or killier or tougher etc. He took 2 x wounds off the DK and killed 1 X GKT. Avatar tried to kill GKT - no wounds yay!

I managed to DS in the Libby and other GKT onto other Obj - but this is where it went wrong I think? I then didnt advance the other GKT and just fired at Hvy Wpn killing 2, DK Killed 2 x LR Hvy Wpn and Adv closer. Libby and GKT killed 1 x sniper. Nothing in Assault range (Damn!!!).

 

T4- More spells this time focusing on Libby & GKT - Doom x2 and Wellness? on his Psyker. Then he managed to kill DK with LR Hvy Wpn team :huh: His Avatar then turned round to attack Libby. Hvy wpn team took 2 x GKT from 1st squad and jet bikes took 1 x GKT too (only 2 x brave GK left). Then his snipers took 2 x GKT from Libby Squad.

I hit back with incinerators and SB and took 1 x sniper and 1 x Hvy wpn team guy. Then I assaulted with both and got stuck in! 2x GKT took out 2 x Hvy wpn team and libby and GKT wiped out snipers as their 2++ does not count in CC. His psyker killed 1 x GKT in return.

 

T5 - He cast more Doom on Libby etc (re roll to wound?) and wellness on himself etc. His jet bikes turbo'd onto Obj (Damn didn't see that coming) His CC whittled down 1st GKT to one man (Halberd) but killed his Hvy wpn team (x2) and consol twds Obj. Libby and GKT then did good and wiped out snipers but lost 2 more GKT to his Psyker lord thing! Libby hit back and killed Avatar (yay) and so nearly (isnt it always) killed his Psyker lord but for his wellness (re-roll saves).

 

Rolled to keep going - 6 so game on!

 

T6 - More spells - Doom and wellness again! Then he shot and killed GKT with jet bikes! So that was really the game to him as he was on one of the obj (that was the bit I missed - the mission! Then his psyker killed the last GKT but not libby. Allowing my Libby one last CC in my T6 - unfortunately his re-roll saved him and my Libby finally succumbed!

 

My questions?

 

His Psyker lord thing made all my GK have to use 3xD6 for leadership tests but he used 3xD6 and cast away highest! So many times I was unable to use hammerhamd, shrouding, Mot or resist Psker attacks. Is there any way to counter this, other than an Inq with Null Rod (only good close in)

 

How do i combat the poor GK range of organic weapons - 2 x Psi-Rifledreads under construction?

 

Would Psycannon have been better on DK?

 

I know I missed the point of mission and went for killing rather than Obj but his snipers and hvy wpns were picking me off in the open and after he had wiped out 2 x GKSS I didnt want to hand the game to him as a turkey shoot?

 

Would a GM with strategy have been better?

 

Any comments appreciated?

[breng77]

His Psyker lord thing made all my GK have to use 3xD6 for leadership tests but he used 3xD6 and cast away highest! So many times I was unable to use hammerhamd, shrouding, Mot or resist Psker attacks. Is there any way to counter this, other than an Inq with Null Rod (only good close in)

 

Psychic hood on your Libby should have helped.

 

How do i combat the poor GK range of organic weapons - 2 x Psi-Rifledreads under construction?

 

Get rhinos for your strike squads so they can get into range quickly.

[number6]

His Psyker lord thing made all my GK have to use 3xD6 for leadership tests but he used 3xD6 and cast away highest! So many times I was unable to use hammerhamd, shrouding, Mot or resist Psker attacks. Is there any way to counter this, other than an Inq with Null Rod (only good close in)

 

Psychic hood on your Libby should have helped.

The hood has no effect on this Eldar ability. It's not activated, it doesn't require a psychic test. If your Eldar opponent is using this wargear (or is using Eldrad, or both!), then just refrain from using psyker powers at all. You're only going to hurt yourself.

 

You can use the hood to try countering Eldar powers that do require psychic tests, like Doom or Fortune. But as with all hood roll-offs, the odds are slightly in the favor of the caster because ties still let them get the power off. Also, the hood has a limited range. It's pretty good, but "long range" it isn't, so don't count on your libby to stop psyker powers. It's great when you can, but don't expect to be successful.

 

Bear in mind: if the performance of your GK army actually relies on psyker powers to function competitively on the tabletop, you're doing it wrong. Treat psyker powers as handy bonuses that are worth using when it's safe and easy to get them. Any time it isn't safe and easy to cast a psyker power, don't.

[breng77]

That is what I meant, that he could mitigate the effectiveness of the eldar psychic powers with his hood, not that he could shut down runes. While it is true that the hood has limited range it is pretty long. In addition if a unit is being doomed, and your units are close together you will be in hood range (doom is 24" range as well.). In addition with 3 powers per turn the odds are on your side that you will shut down at least 1 (psychic hood has about a 41% chance to shut down a power)

 

Dreads would also help due to reinforced aegis.

 

If you really want to win against that list simply go with a Vindicare assasin. Turn 1 pop the Invul save off of Eldrad (I assume otherwise 3 powers is illegal), turn 2 pop eldrad.

 

I do agree with the idea that if your GK army is relying on Psychic powers you are doing it wrong.

[thade]

If your Eldar opponent is using this wargear (or is using Eldrad, or both!), then just refrain from using psyker powers at all. You're only going to hurt yourself.

In general, I definitely agree with #6 here; however, if your Librarian or GK model is holding a warding stave and is engaged in melee, that model gets a 2++ invuln it can use against perils. Since GK in general will either use Hammerhand (which is almost overkill against Eldar since they're T3) or Force Weapons (very rare, but nice against Wraithlords if it comes to it) that are both melee-powers anyway. I'm not saying take a warding stave on every unit (that'd crazy expensive) but if the Librarian has one, he can use powers with little risk to himself in melee. Odds are good you'll make two 2++ saves and ignore the perils. I do it on a 3++ storm shield all the time with my marine Librarian.

 

You can use the hood to try countering Eldar powers that do require psychic tests, like Doom or Fortune. But as with all hood roll-offs, the odds are slightly in the favor of the caster because ties still let them get the power off. Also, the hood has a limited range. It's pretty good, but "long range" it isn't, so don't count on your libby to stop psyker powers. It's great when you can, but don't expect to be successful.

I can't emphasize this point enough.

 

Bear in mind: if the performance of your GK army actually relies on psyker powers to function competitively on the tabletop, you're doing it wrong. Treat psyker powers as handy bonuses that are worth using when it's safe and easy to get them. Any time it isn't safe and easy to cast a psyker power, don't.

Or this point. Keep it in mind. :)

[Drachnon]

Yeah Eldar pretty much dominate psyker wars, they pretty much can't fail their test while you'll fail 50% of the time, with perils only slightly less. A dread for the improved aegis definitely helps against things like mindwar and doom but won't do much against guide (reroll to him) and fortune (reroll saves). Psychic hood helps, it should have about 33% to shut powers down, assuming you're in range. Keep in mind your psychic hoods will be amongst the first things a good eldar player will target.

 

The best would be to not play into your opponents strengths, as long as his farseer or Eldrad are still alive don't cast anything. As soon as you get into close combat you'll see that farseers and eldrad are kinda pathetic with one base attack each, low T, and only a 4+ inv save with possible reroll (your 2+(+) save is better). Without the farseer the eldar will lose all his nasty buffs.

Now I guess you encountered dark reapers since you said a squad got wiped first turn by ap3 shots. Dark reapers are the hard counter unit to anything power armoured, especially if they get buffed by farseer. Since he started I'm guessing you had your strike squad in the open, try keeping them out of sight or at least in cover and don't be afraid to go to ground if you have to save a lot (note dark reaper exarch can take ability to ignore cover saves). Transports will also helps if you want to move through dark reaper firepower.

 

The avatar should be no problem for you, since its a daemon your DK with psilencer should be plenty.

 

shooting eldar pathfinders (snipers) out of cover is possible but probably not the most effective way to handle them. Incinerators and close combat are the way to go.

 

I don't have much experience with jetbikes but from what I know they actually die pretty easily, they're just really fast.

[nurglez]

I have a lovely unit in my force that I assume would be awesome at taking out pesky eldar snipers, though it does cost at least 235 points... A DK with PT and HI. should toast them good :sweat:

 

I've never played vs Eldar, so if I ever do I expect to lose, due to their longer range, higher speed and psykerness (if thats even a word). I have played vs nids a few times and shadows of the warp is annoying, I guess the eldar one is worse?

[chrisB1]

Cheers guys,

 

Yes I have got a Rhino to build but was reading the artiicle on rhino vs PsiBack and still couldnt make up my mind which - though I know I do need them for my GKSS.

 

Good point on the Eldrad (that was his name!) my opponent said that if he loses him in the 1st/2nd turn he always loses the game but if he can keep him alive and casting psyker powers then he always wins?

 

Agreed as well, once I got into CC my GKT munched into them but I had been whittled down too much to finish him off in the 2 rds of CC we managed. Maybe run 1 x 10 man rather than 2 x 5 man GKT and GKSS less chance of lone warriors.

 

All my models are metal except DK and Libby (Space hulk converted) so I have just ordered 1 x GKT and 1 x GK to start a Paladin squad and also get Warding Stave and Banner etc as well as more PsiCannons to spread the love :sweat:

 

Just need to finish those Psi-riflemen too......

[Something Wycked]

I know I missed the point of mission and went for killing rather than Obj but his snipers and hvy wpns were picking me off in the open and after he had wiped out 2 x GKSS I didnt want to hand the game to him as a turkey shoot?

 

Would a GM with strategy have been better?

This right here is your problem.

 

Looking at the Eldar army, you can see that his units are geared for shooting, not assault. His gameplan: sit tight, probably in cover, and shoot at you while you run across the board. You played right into his game plan, basically losing both your Strike Squads in the first two turns.

 

Your list is just fine. Sure, your Libby isn't a good fit against this particular opponent but you can overcome that. I don't like Terminators because I feel they're too expensive, but my opinion doesn't stop people from using them to great effect :)

 

What you need to do is find a way to get across the board and in the Eldar's face without letting him shoot you up first. The most obvious way is to Deep Strike everything. Use the Servo Skulls to help you with scatter; place them in locations that aren't easy for the Eldar to run out and eliminate- right about midfield is good. Make him run forward and abandon his cover or force him to use his jetbikes- which are then isolated and easy to eliminate. Or you can deep strike easily if he chooses to leave the skulls alone and shoot him before he shoots you.

 

Other than that, make excellent use of cover if you're walking instead of deep striking.

 

Also, Heavy Incinerators are murder against Eldar. :sweat: