Brother Ambroz Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 The Wolves will always come to heel when called. In that regard, it is a mystery why they name themselves wolves. They are tame, collared by the Emperor, obeying his every whim. But a wolf doesn't behave that way. Only a dog does. - Khârn of the World Eaters. Another point, the only recent fluff on Angron points at him only having two possible equals among Primarchs (Horus and Sanguinus). Russ barely beat Magnus, what chance do you really see him as having against the future chosen of Khorne? Yes the only fluff we have so far is of him fighting against gladiators but there haven't been any books about him yet, unlike Russ. There will soon be more insight into Angron though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238483-who-would-win-in-a-fight/page/4/#findComment-2879077 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 Another point, the only recent fluff on Angron points at him only having two possible equals among Primarchs (Horus and Sanguinus). Russ barely beat Magnus, what chance do you really see him as having against the future chosen of Khorne? Yes the only fluff we have so far is of him fighting against gladiators but there haven't been any books about him yet, unlike Russ. There will soon be more insight into Angron though. Is your only fluff backing just Corax's opinion? WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238483-who-would-win-in-a-fight/page/4/#findComment-2879101 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 In what other fluff is Angron mentioned? Is Corax's opinion in question? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238483-who-would-win-in-a-fight/page/4/#findComment-2879118 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 In what other fluff is Angron mentioned? Is Corax's opinion in question? Angron gets mentioned a bit in the HH series, and appears in the prelude to the DS massacre. So far mindless savage seems to be a consistent opinion. I hope (rather strongly) that ADB can fix that. and yes, i question anybody's opinion when they are fleeing for their lives, being hunted by their brothers, suffering from something like depression, and trying to understand what drove their brethen to betray oaths of loyalty. I dont believe any being would be wholly trustworthy in that situation. they would be suffering from too many emotions to being whole. and as always, a opinion is just that, a opinion. its not fact. (i do love the RG and play them as my Codex army, so i dont want to appear as hating on them in any way.) Horus has the opinion that the Khan would follow him. Fulgrim believed he could convert Ferrus Manus. Both times their opinions were wrong. It can happen. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238483-who-would-win-in-a-fight/page/4/#findComment-2879125 Share on other sites More sharing options...
reapercake Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 The Wolves will always come to heel when called. In that regard, it is a mystery why they name themselves wolves. They are tame, collared by the Emperor, obeying his every whim. But a wolf doesn't behave that way. Only a dog does. - Khârn of the World Eaters. Another point, the only recent fluff on Angron points at him only having two possible equals among Primarchs (Horus and Sanguinus). Russ barely beat Magnus, what chance do you really see him as having against the future chosen of Khorne? Yes the only fluff we have so far is of him fighting against gladiators but there haven't been any books about him yet, unlike Russ. There will soon be more insight into Angron though. :) Khârn should google wolf pack behaviour! "A pack mentality of extreme loyalty and devotion to the group binds the wolves together as a unit, " "Wolves naturally organize themselves into packs to maintain stability and assist with hunting. These are often groups of three to seven wolves led by an alpha male" (the emperor) "The beta wolf comes next. Beta wolves act as the second in command" (Russ) BTW great thread this lots of fun (though don't think there will ever be a right of wrong, unless GW comes out and says who wins! lol and I do think a lot of it depends on the circumstances!) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238483-who-would-win-in-a-fight/page/4/#findComment-2879130 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 And this is why I don't like to argue with SW players. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238483-who-would-win-in-a-fight/page/4/#findComment-2879145 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassWave Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I think we can safely say that Dorn whoops everyone. Yeah, the one Primarch that isn't killed by another Primarch or the Emperor, but by traitor marines. Got a real winner there :P I would like to see an epic movie over a fight between Angron and Russ now :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238483-who-would-win-in-a-fight/page/4/#findComment-2879151 Share on other sites More sharing options...
reapercake Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 And this is why I don't like to argue with SW players. HEHE! Stubborn buggers arn't we? It's just so much fun! ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238483-who-would-win-in-a-fight/page/4/#findComment-2879156 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 And this is why I don't like to argue with SW players. yes, we are all just fanboys that are resistant to all reason. i remember that from my brainwashing courses when i bought my first codex back in 2001. thank you for pointing that out to us poor mindless drones. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238483-who-would-win-in-a-fight/page/4/#findComment-2879160 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 No it's because of the colossal arrogance some display. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238483-who-would-win-in-a-fight/page/4/#findComment-2879172 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 No it's because of the colossal arrogance some display. while some of us are somewhat arrogant, i would say no more than certain other individuals that post regularly on this forum. some of them make us look downright humble! oh well, back on topic. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238483-who-would-win-in-a-fight/page/4/#findComment-2879175 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimdarkness Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Where do the combat drugs come into play the implants heighten the violent tendency of the legion not adel them with drugs. Drugs are for the post hearsay E.C to dabble with. As for who would win it's a tie between the 2nd and 11th primarch with alpharius a close 3rd Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238483-who-would-win-in-a-fight/page/4/#findComment-2879186 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 As for who would win it's a tie between the 2nd and 11th primarch with alpharius a close 3rd very true, unless alpharius/omegron or reed is the 2nd and 11th primarch as well! WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238483-who-would-win-in-a-fight/page/4/#findComment-2879200 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Save for Lorgar, Alpharius and possibly Corax, Guilliman was the of the weakest primarchs in terms of skill at arms. If he tried to challenge Russ to a fight he would end up with his head pulverised. If he went off to fight Angron in one on one combat he would come back with his arms ripped off. I stand by the comments I made earlier, that ultimately only Chaos would win in such a fight, but Guilliman isn't some perfect warrior who can be beaten in any arena of combat. Guilliman is not a slouch, neither Lorgar nor Corax. As ADB says it is all circumstantial. Put the primarchs in a vacuum and they perform the same. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238483-who-would-win-in-a-fight/page/4/#findComment-2879324 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codicier Lucion Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Guilliman is not a slouch, neither Lorgar nor Corax. As ADB says it is all circumstantial. Put the primarchs in a vacuum and they perform the same. Try telling karden00 that. I'm not saying they're slouches, we get plenty of descriptions of them being able to easily kill space marines en mass, but Guilliman isn't 40K's Sun Tzu and simultaneously an invincible warrior who can defeat any enemy the second he looks at them. When it comes down to the Primarchs, assuming the person can't just accept they're all on equal terms in one way or another, then Guilliman is definitely one of the weaker ones when it comes to skill at arms. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238483-who-would-win-in-a-fight/page/4/#findComment-2879335 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I think he was joking. I hope so. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238483-who-would-win-in-a-fight/page/4/#findComment-2879338 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkchild130 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Taking an objective stance here, GW designed each Primarch to fill a seperate role, so all player's tastes were covered. We have different flavours of epic strategist in Guilliman and the Lion. Dorn is our knight. Sanguinius is our perfect and noble angel blah blah blah you see what I'm getting at. Angron's "role" is close combat monster, simple as that. It's only logical to assume he would be the best at close combat. Darkchild Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238483-who-would-win-in-a-fight/page/4/#findComment-2879353 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Payton Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Guilliman would beat everyone else. My basis for this statement is that I am an Ultramarine player. You assume that being an Ultramarine means he is utterly invincible and cannot lose anything. What a shocking surprise. [/sarcasm] Actually, I meant that people will base their judgements on the basis of chapter loyalty/dislike rather than a standard. It was intended to parody various posters on this thread. That's why I gave an obviously spurious basis for my obviously spurious opinion. Apologies if it went over your head, I'll use an emoticon next time. EDIT: If you go back and read my post about the Dark Angels in response to Allfather1's view on the Lion vs Guilliman, you can see that I don't assume what you say: I'm not saying that you are necessarily wrong; it is definetely a damn, damn close call, and I can certainly see Lion winning. But don't be so quick to dismiss Guilliman's fighting abilities; he was a very skilled champion as well as a mighty general - he may have defeated one primarch and drawn with the other. And look at him on the cover of Know No Fear. He's not wearing a helmet. In space. Whilst punching someone's head off. I reckon if you fought 100 matches between the two, it would be roughly 50/50. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238483-who-would-win-in-a-fight/page/4/#findComment-2879596 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codicier Lucion Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Actually, I meant that people will base their judgements on the basis of chapter loyalty/dislike rather than a standard. It was intended to parody various posters on this thread. That's why I gave an obviously spurious basis for my obviously spurious opinion. Apologies if it went over your head, I'll use an emoticon next time. Considering it's an exact statement more than a few Ultrasmurfs players would try to push as the total truth, with no Primarch being able to best Guilliman in any area, it hardly sounded like a parody. You wouldn't have had to change a thing to make it a serious comment by another member. I do have one question to make though, does anyone else think the fight between Horus and the Emperor would have ended differently had the Emperor not been holding back? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238483-who-would-win-in-a-fight/page/4/#findComment-2879681 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 while some of us are somewhat arrogant, i would say no more than certain other individuals that post regularly on this forum. some of them make us look downright humble! oh well, back on topic. WLK Then again, it is hard to read people when they're typing reponses. Some could be joking and we'd never know. I just have hard time figuring that out. Smilys help though :blink: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238483-who-would-win-in-a-fight/page/4/#findComment-2879737 Share on other sites More sharing options...
c-wrex Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I do have one question to make though, does anyone else think the fight between Horus and the Emperor would have ended differently had the Emperor not been holding back? Would have been just as different if Horus had fought the Big Guy without the blessings of Chaos. What about the best Armoured Company of the Emperor's Children versus Perturabo's top Devastator Company? Perfection in (armor-plated) motion, or clinical precision? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238483-who-would-win-in-a-fight/page/4/#findComment-2879740 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Considering it's an exact statement more than a few Ultrasmurfs players would try to push as the total truth, with no Primarch being able to best Guilliman in any area, it hardly sounded like a parody. You wouldn't have had to change a thing to make it a serious comment by another member. to be fair Lucion, i understand your frustration at several pro ultra comments, but i find your own viewpoints equally as offensive and ask that you tone down the hate a bit.. Guilliman would have six kinds of hell beaten out of him by just about any primarch. Guilliman's skill lay in absorbing other legions into his Ultramarines and tactical skill, not fighting people in duels. that sounds like an opinion formed by anti ultra bias.. theres no evidence guillman absordbed other legions, infact its stated in many sources his legion size is due to efficiency in battle and ultrmar being a utopia with a high rate of recrutiment. Guilliman is not the most martial primarch granted, but hes not the weakest as your statement suggests, the fact he has potentially two primarch scalps to his name is interesting too. Guilliman and the ultramarines are like the greeks/spartans, they fought extremely well as a cohesuve force, but Guilliman like lenoides or any other greek king, was a very capable warrior, trained in military academies from a young age Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238483-who-would-win-in-a-fight/page/4/#findComment-2879753 Share on other sites More sharing options...
karden00 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Okay here is the bottom line, as I see it anyway. Guilliman, more than any other Primarch, knew how to win. Not only did he win more worlds during hte Crusade than any other, he won them well. He ran around the galaxy, beating xenos and anyone else to snot, and then set up a model world/system of the Imperium. What all this means is that he was the guy who wouldn't box a boxer, he would wrestle him; he wouldn't duel a duelist, he would shoot him. Efficiency. Remember when Indiana Jones faced off with that goofy swordsman, and just shoots him after his fancy pants display? That, my friends, is Guilliman. So some of you want to believe that in a fight, Angron or Russ or god help me the Lion would out duel/out fight/out rage Guilliman, fine. If all our Primarchs were in the UFC octagon and they had to go at it by tooth and nail, who knows who would win? Back in the day, anything canonical read that in all areas, Horus was the greatest, so I would think that he would get it done at the end of the day. But since we dont seem to be counting him on anything here, Im throwing in with Guilliman. He is never talked about as a savage beast in hand to hand, that is true. Did he know what he was doing? Absolutely. Like someone previously said, he was raised in what was probably one of the toughest military barracks in the galaxy. Angron would get upset, start hittin his crack, go nuts, and Guilliman would recognize him as someone to avoid in up-close fighting, so he would Indiana Jones him from 20 feet away. Analyzing a situation and recognizing the best way to overcome it is something I think its pretty hard for anyone here to deny. If someone possessing the mind and mental abilities of a Primarch can meticulously plan a campaign, combat on a large scale, I dont see why the person best at that could not turn that same talent towards a one on one situation. Am I partisan? Obviously, we all are. But I think what I said holds water. Courage and Honor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238483-who-would-win-in-a-fight/page/4/#findComment-2879759 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 personal feelings towards ultramarines aside, there is alot of logic in that statement.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238483-who-would-win-in-a-fight/page/4/#findComment-2879770 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 So far I had taken karden00's posts as pure sarcasm. Perhaps I misjudged. :RTBBB: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238483-who-would-win-in-a-fight/page/4/#findComment-2879848 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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