Atlantic Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 What do you guys think of Seth? He seems like a no brainer to me swinging basically a chainsword power fist with 5 attacks at initiative 5. I'm curious as to how you would use him and what kind of lists you believe he would fit into? I don't hear much about him and have yet to see someone run him. I'm thinking about attaching him to my Death Company and turning him loose. List would look like Mephiston Seth RAS x 5 (No Jump Packs) melta gun, rback w/ twin linked las cannon RAS x 5 (No Jump Packs) melta gun, rback w/ twin linked las cannon RAS x 5 (No Jump Packs) melta gun, rback w/ heavy bolter RAS x 5 (No Jump Packs) melta gun, rback w/ heavy bolter Death Company x 10 - 2 pfist, 2 pw, 8 bolters, Land Raider Redeemer w/ multi melta Death Company Dread - Blood Talons, Magna Grapple Furioso Dread - Libby upgrade Chaplain Attack Bikes x 3 w/ 3 multi meltas Attack Bikes x 3 w/ 3 multi meltas Attack Bikes x 3 w/3 multi meltas Dreadnaught w Multi Melta Comes to exactly 2500 points Seth, Chaplain, & DC would pile into the Land Raider obviously. Depending on what is going on bikes might go into reserve Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238623-tactics-and-usefulness-of-gabriel-seth/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 He's good vs massed infantry... which you don't really see. Maybe Orks. And then he dies to a Power Klaw. Fun times. Take a Reclusiarch instead and spend the points you saved elsewhere. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238623-tactics-and-usefulness-of-gabriel-seth/#findComment-2878335 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glendor Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 If his chainsword counted as a power weapon like Khârn then I think he would be worth it with the rending. However currently you will only kill one or two marines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238623-tactics-and-usefulness-of-gabriel-seth/#findComment-2878342 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astorath the Grim Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 If his chainsword counted as a power weapon like Khârn then I think he would be worth it with the rending. However currently you will only kill one or two marines. Seriously? I think you need new dice...I've personally used Seth to great effect...killing massed infantry, characters, MCs, and a couple of eldar vehicles...while it is true a PF or PK can ruin his day...he has an invuln save so he's fine as long as you can roll a 4++...he's cheap and FAR better then our captains are if you are doing a ground force. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238623-tactics-and-usefulness-of-gabriel-seth/#findComment-2878347 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 If his chainsword counted as a power weapon like Khârn then I think he would be worth it with the rending. However currently you will only kill one or two marines. Seth would need to be massively more points if he was a strength 8, rending power weapon at initiative 5 (6 with furious charge) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238623-tactics-and-usefulness-of-gabriel-seth/#findComment-2878431 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 Seth is good (if suicidal) against horde units, as he can get in a ton of automatic hits with Blood Reaver and then punish them for any 1s they roll; he also does a pretty good number on tanks, since he effectively has a Power Fist. However, being on foot in Power Armor is a big limiter on him, so he's not exactly a great character all things considered, though he's not awful, either. If you're going to use him, I think it's best to do it in a Stormraven list where he splits off from another unit to engage something else. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238623-tactics-and-usefulness-of-gabriel-seth/#findComment-2878441 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glendor Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 I dont think it is terrible I have just seen too many times where he only rolls one 6 to wound and mybe they fail a save. He is fun to use and can do pretty well but if he had a powerweapon and a slight point increase he would be like a mini mephiston though I do agree it would be ridiculous. I just dont like him to play serious with. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238623-tactics-and-usefulness-of-gabriel-seth/#findComment-2878446 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Blayse Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 I actually enjoy running Seth. I find he is decent dread killer and can drop vehicles easy. He also makes a squad he joins Fearless, which can be useful most of the time. I find he does pretty good in most combats, of course he is running along with a Sang. Priest and has FNP to go along with him. He is also great at either drawing attention to try and take him out, or so send enemy units running from his fury. He may not be competitive, but always fun. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238623-tactics-and-usefulness-of-gabriel-seth/#findComment-2878464 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranwulf Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 Compared to other choices, I would rather go with other SC or a nice Reclusiarch or Librarian. But he is average, being able to kill any massed infantry, and being specially deadly against anything besides Marines: Imp. Guard.: He can destroy Leman Russes like paper, as well killing lots and lots of guardsmen. Tyranids: He is good actually against both lots of gaunts and his Str. 8, Rending, is quite useful against MC, specially because he is Init. 5! Dark Eldar: Negate theirs Feel No Pain and is awesome to kill so many Eldar... Orks: Kill Ork boys like a happy sauce, but is specially dangerous against those Killa Khans and Deff Dreads that so many like. Ran Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238623-tactics-and-usefulness-of-gabriel-seth/#findComment-2878524 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 He absolutely is not cheap. He's the same as Khârn who is VASTLY superior. I'd consider him for 120pts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238623-tactics-and-usefulness-of-gabriel-seth/#findComment-2878550 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 He absolutely is not cheap. He's the same as Khârn who is VASTLY superior. I'd consider him for 120pts. I think the problem (just like Tycho) stems from being based on the captain which of course is horrible value to begin with. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238623-tactics-and-usefulness-of-gabriel-seth/#findComment-2878580 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefireinferno Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 I personally love the crap out of him. No list is I have made has not included him he is fun however the only time I have ever used his suto hit is against things with a AV most times he is with a unit and will have less than 5 guys in base contact so 5ish str 8 attacks have been better in the long run. I have also seen him beat down Khârn more times than the Blood God would care to release to the public Karn has to fail 1 save to die Seth has to fail 4. But like most SC some will love them some will not but not liking Seth just means your missing out on awesome. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238623-tactics-and-usefulness-of-gabriel-seth/#findComment-2878628 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 Atlantic- tactics wise id consider him in a support role with other units. I wouldnt put him with a DC, as they can do enough damage by themselves. So, with terms / RAS in a Raider or Rhino - for sure. I think he's EXCELLENT in a role against tanks, and great for character killing. You don't always need to have him surrounded for him to be useful. The biggest issue as mentioned is that (unlike the other HQs) he adds very little in terms of force multiplying. Don't know what GW were thinking with their choice on the Captains. Everyone should have Rites like Tycho. But, we're here to discuss how to use him, not how not to!! Id put him with a RAS in Rhino i think. If I was running Mephy, id have a DC rhino, an 8/9man RAS rhino with Seth and then whatever other support. Alternatively, in a Pod with a RAS or even Sternguard if you play Sternguard. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238623-tactics-and-usefulness-of-gabriel-seth/#findComment-2878633 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantic Posted September 18, 2011 Author Share Posted September 18, 2011 He absolutely is not cheap. He's the same as Khârn who is VASTLY superior. I'd consider him for 120pts. I think he is probably vastly superior to Khârn. They are both initiative 5. Seth hits str. 8 and has a 4+ invuln save. He also doesn't hit his own guys. Khârn would die to one blow from Seth. Seth would probably survive 1 round of combat against Khârn. Khârn is also 5 points more expensive. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238623-tactics-and-usefulness-of-gabriel-seth/#findComment-2878692 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantic Posted September 18, 2011 Author Share Posted September 18, 2011 Atlantic- tactics wise id consider him in a support role with other units. I wouldnt put him with a DC, as they can do enough damage by themselves. So, with terms / RAS in a Raider or Rhino - for sure. I think he's EXCELLENT in a role against tanks, and great for character killing. You don't always need to have him surrounded for him to be useful. The biggest issue as mentioned is that (unlike the other HQs) he adds very little in terms of force multiplying. Don't know what GW were thinking with their choice on the Captains. Everyone should have Rites like Tycho. But, we're here to discuss how to use him, not how not to!! Id put him with a RAS in Rhino i think. If I was running Mephy, id have a DC rhino, an 8/9man RAS rhino with Seth and then whatever other support. Alternatively, in a Pod with a RAS or even Sternguard if you play Sternguard. I see what you are saying. I thought it would be a good idea to stick him with the DC so that he could take advantage of the chaplain and give them some extra vehicle busting power. I figured he would also be about unkillable with his 4 wounds and the 10 FNP DC I can allocate wounds onto. I've also considered pulling the powerfists from my DC and saving 50 points I could stick elsewhere. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238623-tactics-and-usefulness-of-gabriel-seth/#findComment-2878694 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 Atlantic- tactics wise id consider him in a support role with other units. I wouldnt put him with a DC, as they can do enough damage by themselves. So, with terms / RAS in a Raider or Rhino - for sure. I think he's EXCELLENT in a role against tanks, and great for character killing. You don't always need to have him surrounded for him to be useful. The biggest issue as mentioned is that (unlike the other HQs) he adds very little in terms of force multiplying. Don't know what GW were thinking with their choice on the Captains. Everyone should have Rites like Tycho. But, we're here to discuss how to use him, not how not to!! Id put him with a RAS in Rhino i think. If I was running Mephy, id have a DC rhino, an 8/9man RAS rhino with Seth and then whatever other support. Alternatively, in a Pod with a RAS or even Sternguard if you play Sternguard. I see what you are saying. I thought it would be a good idea to stick him with the DC so that he could take advantage of the chaplain and give them some extra vehicle busting power. I figured he would also be about unkillable with his 4 wounds and the 10 FNP DC I can allocate wounds onto. I've also considered pulling the powerfists from my DC and saving 50 points I could stick elsewhere. With rerolls he's great, but again- you now have 400+ points in one basket. Also, remember the 10FNP wounds you can allocate are only for shooting. And most times id be taking non-instant death AP3/2 shots on Seth anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238623-tactics-and-usefulness-of-gabriel-seth/#findComment-2878705 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantic Posted September 18, 2011 Author Share Posted September 18, 2011 I'm sort of tempted to dump my land raider for a Storm Raven and stick the DC, Seth, & DC Dread in it. I'm starting to think Honor Guard Squad for him to get a priest as well. Or a Van Vet squad + priest. If i went van vet, I would have to lose a bike squad which hurts a little bit on the inside. On an unrelated note, where are the Death Company Bikers?! If you could do that, I would run astaroth and do a full DC bike army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238623-tactics-and-usefulness-of-gabriel-seth/#findComment-2878708 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Blayse Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Probably not a good idea to have out of control murdering maniacs on bikes. You'd have to rig the bikes to blow up after the battle, then that would mess up their special black armor. I'd be happier if a captain could ride a bike and make bikers be troops. Otherwise, I have run Seth with a smaller DC before. I think it was 5 or 6, regular DC and a Chaplain. I ran them in a rhino and it worked out pretty good. Near the end Seth ended up running by himself after a squad of noise marines and the DC sent a havoc squad running away. They didn't want to get charged, so they moved and ran to stay out of charge. Worked pretty good for me either way. I don't use the auto-hit often, but if you get a chance to catch a eldar skimmer, then it sure helps. It's too bad he doesn't benefit from FC though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238623-tactics-and-usefulness-of-gabriel-seth/#findComment-2879220 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushman101 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I just bought Seth this week and I'm having to find this all out myself. I plan on running him in mech lists since he doesn't have a JP. My first and only game with Seth was against 'Nids. Needless to say, he killed lots of 'Gaunts. The Hive Tyrant was a bit tougher, but by games end, both were still trading hits. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238623-tactics-and-usefulness-of-gabriel-seth/#findComment-2879233 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelOfDeathXIII Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I don't have the model, but I do want him (like I want so much other units). I'd use him with a ten-man unit of Vanguard Veterans (without Jump Packs) in a Storm Raven. When against a mech-force I would add a Furioso as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238623-tactics-and-usefulness-of-gabriel-seth/#findComment-2879343 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefireinferno Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 It's too bad he doesn't benefit from FC though. He still benefits from the Init boost ;). On a semi related note I have ALWAYS pictured the Flesh Tearers as a more Mech force and Also images of Jump packs stuck in the trees of their home world :). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238623-tactics-and-usefulness-of-gabriel-seth/#findComment-2879377 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantic Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 After more thought. (bear with me, my brain stops and starts) I'm thinking about sticking him in a Land Raider Crusader, with 4 LC Terminators, 2 THSS Terminators, 1 Chaplain, 1 Sanguinary Priest Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238623-tactics-and-usefulness-of-gabriel-seth/#findComment-2879612 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smendrik Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 That's a lot of points your taking for just one unit.. Why don't take a choppy Honour Guard, equip them with SSs and LCs and put them in a Land Raider? It's far cheaper, the SP is included and if you want to include a Chaplain it's still cheaper but not that less effective.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238623-tactics-and-usefulness-of-gabriel-seth/#findComment-2879617 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantic Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 It is alot of points, but that is sort of how I roll. It helps that most of my games are 2500 points. I have a different philosophy when it comes to 40k. I treat the game like a maniac with weapons of mass destruction. I go with 3 - 4 cheap mobile scoring units and then try to throw dread inspiring units of potential devastation at my opponent. With the list I have posted at the top, I get 4 scoring units in razorbacks and the rest is basically a big headache 9 Multi Melta packing bikes A Land Raider full of pain Mephiston partnered with a flying dreadnaught An insane dreadnaught and his more sane babysitter A Land Raider full of pain Too much fun Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238623-tactics-and-usefulness-of-gabriel-seth/#findComment-2879627 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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