Gk Grenades

[Seahawk]

Here's my next scenario worth discussing:

 

Grey Knight Independent Character (GKIC) with bandoleers of party grenades, joined to a squad.

 

They get assaulted...due to movement mechanics, the squad is engaged with an enemy unit, and the attached Independent Character goes into contact with the GKIC (the only enemy model to do so).

 

This is the only thing the FAQ addresses:

 

Q: Does the entire unit need to be equipped with rad,

psyk-out and/or psychotroke grenades for their effects

to work or is just one model being equiped with them

enough? (p60)

A: One model in a unit is enough.

 

Now the question starts to become...it's enough for what?

 

For instance, in the above scenario, do all models count as having the benefits? They are only in contact with Big Unit A, while the guy actually carrying the grenades is only in contact with IC Unit B. How is this resolved?

[greatcrusade08]

the units are all engaged with each other.. just becuase they cant actually hit each other doesnt mean they arent locked in combat with each other.

 

my 0.02 is that if only one member of the unit needs to carry grenades for the effects to work, then it doesnt matter that hes locked in B2B with an enemy Ic as hes still techincally engaged/locked with the entire enemy unit

[Seahawk]

Interesting take, and also how I interpreted it.

 

There are dissenting opinions though, so I need to craft a nice counterpoint to it.

[thade]

Consider some of the strange things that happen in giant, mosh-pit-style melee. This would be better with an image, but if you can picture it...

 

Ork Mob A and Ork Mob B are each 30 strong.

 

Marine Squads 1, 2, and 3 are each 10 strong.

 

Squads 1 and 3 charge Mobs A and B respectively.

 

Squad 2 multicharges A and B.

 

Suppose that - in the ensuing combat - Squad 2 and Mob B are obliterated or otherwise flee the battle.

 

Now Squad 3 - which is no longer engaged - must pile in into combat with Mob A if it can reach; if it can't reach (with its 6" pile in and Mob A's subsequent 6" pile in) then it gets a Consolidate move and isn't in combat anymore.

 

This is one of those points in Assault that players sometimes miss, forget, or get confused about. :blink: The reason it happens at all, is that this is one big combat...and Squad 3 is still a part of it.

 

Hope this semi-related point helps.

 

EDIT: typo and clarification

[Something Wycked]

From the topic about GKIC's and Brotherhood Banners, we know that the IC is a separate unit starting at the initiative rounds and ending at assault resolution. The grenades' effects are applied prior to initiative rounds so they affect the GKIC's squad and/or the enemy IC and squad as appropriate to the grenade type.

[ShinyRhino]

To piggyback on this one, what happens when the Grey Knight IC doesn't reach base contact during the initial round of combat?

 

Say, a Techmarine attached to a Strike Squad. The Techmarine is completely ringed by the squad, and they are assaulted by enough enemy models so as to deny the Squad the ability to move to free room for the Techmarine.

Do the Techmarine's grenades take effect, or not? He's not participating in the assault, since he's an IC who hasn't reached base contact. But he is technically part of the "assaulted unit".

[Seahawk]

It's answered by the FAQ as yes, they do go into effect.

[BOBMAKENZIE]

Keep in mind units are also only considered separate of their ICs for the purposes of allocating attacks and taking saves. Which Grenades are outside of. Which makes the whole situation much simpler BUT seems to go against the idea of Frag Nades only working for people with them.

[ShinyRhino]

From what I understand, the frag versus GK-grenades issue comes down tot he wording of each individual grenade, and whether it affects "models" or "units". Frags affaect attacking models, GK stuff affects attacking units.

[thade]

From what I understand, the frag versus GK-grenades issue comes down tot he wording of each individual grenade, and whether it affects "models" or "units". Frags affaect attacking models, GK stuff affects attacking units.

That's how I remember the dust settling there as well, Shiny.