Culexus Assassin

[NuclearMessiah]

So I was browsing though their entry and a a question popped into my head. For the sake of the Animus Speculum does a squad of Grey knights count as 1 pskyer or does each model count. Logically I assume 1 squad counts as 1 psyker for both balance of the power and how the unit casts and suffers PotW together. But I thought I would ask anyways and see what everyones thoughts are?

[Angelis Mortis]

Brotherhood of Pyskers rule clarifies it. Each squad counts as 1 psyker.

[brianjc]

And everyone is thinking the exact same thing: what if it didn't? :) I don't think it'd mesh with the GK weapon range anyway. A lack of melta and everything else being 24 inch with the exception of psyrifle dreads and monkeys would but that assassin in an odd position.

 

I guess you could combat squad 3 groups of 10 and surround the Culexus with them...to get 3 more shots out of it. Meh. The shot is AP1 or AP2 which means didly squat when we're good at killing marines already with psycannons and psyrifle dreads. Both of those have longer range. Plus doesn't that weird rule affect our pyskers as well?

 

edit was for stupidity on a weapon choice.

[NuclearMessiah]

Brotherhood of Pyskers rule clarifies it. Each squad counts as 1 psyker.

 

 

Thank You Mortis, that's what I thought.

 

 

@brianjc, if that wasn't the case it would be fun. Only thing I can see him good for is to attach to squad and use him to help soften up an enemy before an assault, that's about it at a 12" range. He doesn't negatively affect any units however if he is attached to a squad they get BS 10 when shooting at any enemy psykers, be it they are alone or in a squad. So I guess if your playing against another GK player he could then be useful.

[brianjc]

Brotherhood of Pyskers rule clarifies it. Each squad counts as 1 psyker.

 

 

Thank You Mortis, that's what I thought.

 

 

@brianjc, if that wasn't the case it would be fun. Only thing I can see him good for is to attach to squad and use him to help soften up an enemy before an assault, that's about it at a 12" range. He doesn't negatively affect any units however if he is attached to a squad they get BS 10 when shooting at any enemy psykers, be it they are alone or in a squad. So I guess if your playing against another GK player he could then be useful.

 

 

Agreed. That or maybe an eldar seer council.

[thade]

The Culexus assassin is a unit that always consists of a single model and he does not have the Independent Character rule (like the other temple assassins). As such, he can neither attach to a unit ever, nor can he ever be joined by any ICs.

 

So he alone benefits from his BS10 vs psykers.

[NuclearMessiah]

Thank you thade for clarifying that, I sadly didnt catch onto that. I guess this is why we ask quesions ;)

[thade]

Thank you thade for clarifying that, I sadly didnt catch onto that. I guess this is why we ask quesions :P

S'all good. ;) He's still got his uses; single models are easy to hide behind terrain, vehicles, or even other infantry such that they're blocked form most or even all LOS. The Culexus also has his "You might not be able to shoot me" shenanigan to boot. With a few GK squads within range, his weapon puts out some decent fire power, and on the charge any Temple Assassin is pretty nasty.

[yperihitikos]

So I was browsing though their entry and a a question popped into my head. For the sake of the Animus Speculum does a squad of Grey knights count as 1 pskyer or does each model count. Logically I assume 1 squad counts as 1 psyker for both balance of the power and how the unit casts and suffers PotW together. But I thought I would ask anyways and see what everyones thoughts are?

 

 

 

Until it's FAQed differently, for Animus Speculum (page 53) you count only "Psykers". You can find the "Psykers" in page 51 and page 90.

[thade]

So I was browsing though their entry and a a question popped into my head. For the sake of the Animus Speculum does a squad of Grey knights count as 1 pskyer or does each model count. Logically I assume 1 squad counts as 1 psyker for both balance of the power and how the unit casts and suffers PotW together. But I thought I would ask anyways and see what everyones thoughts are?

 

 

 

Until it's FAQed differently, for Animus Speculum (page 53) you count only "Psykers". You can find the "Psykers" in page 51 and page 90.

Not sure how you're ruling out Psykers in the Base Rule Book. :D But you should not be. There is a bit of a weird question as to whether each Henchmen Psyker is individually a Psyker or each unit of them a Psyker insofar as the A.S. works (as their powers work as one unit, likely it's units, but it's unclear)...however there's no question as to whether a Librarian or a GK squad (each defined explicitly as a Psyker in their entires) have an affect: they definitely do.

 

To be clear, Psyker is defined in the BRB and not overrided by the Henchmen Psyker entry. Consider that Brotherhood of Psykers and Librarians in the GK Codex both refer to the BRB definition.

[yperihitikos]

So I was browsing though their entry and a a question popped into my head. For the sake of the Animus Speculum does a squad of Grey knights count as 1 pskyer or does each model count. Logically I assume 1 squad counts as 1 psyker for both balance of the power and how the unit casts and suffers PotW together. But I thought I would ask anyways and see what everyones thoughts are?

 

 

 

Until it's FAQed differently, for Animus Speculum (page 53) you count only "Psykers". You can find the "Psykers" in page 51 and page 90.

Not sure how you're ruling out Psykers in the Base Rule Book. :) But you should not be. There is a bit of a weird question as to whether each Henchmen Psyker is individually a Psyker or each unit of them a Psyker insofar as the A.S. works (as their powers work as one unit, likely it's units, but it's unclear)...however there's no question as to whether a Librarian or a GK squad (each defined explicitly as a Psyker in their entires) have an affect: they definitely do.

 

To be clear, Psyker is defined in the BRB and not overrided by the Henchmen Psyker entry. Consider that Brotherhood of Psykers and Librarians in the GK Codex both refer to the BRB definition.

 

Whenever a rule is covered in the BRB there is always a reference that asks us to look there for more information or it is explained somewhere in the codex. In the BRB it is explained what and who is a "psyker".

 

Instead of this, we are told that the device works when it is combined with "Psykers". As there is no reference to the BRB, while there are such models within the same codex, there is no misunderstanding. It is a clear reference to the Psykers that can be found in the GK codex. Even the "Brotherhood of Psykers" supports my point of view because in its description they are called "psykers". As for the Librarian, I could see a connection between "Psyker (Master Level)" with the "Psyker Mastery Levels" rule in page 21 where it is written that that rule gives them the "Psyker" special rule. Only for this line of text I see a possibility of a future FAQ with a different meaning for Culexus. However, I insist in the lack of any clarification in his lines which comes in contradiction to the other rules that are given throughout the codex.

 

Whether 4 Psykers should be counted as one or not, it's something different that can be discussed later.

[Gentlemanloser]

Whether 4 Psykers should be counted as one or not, it's something different that can be discussed later.

 

Already done.

 

To death. :)

[thade]

Instead of this, we are told that the device works when it is combined with "Psykers".

Psykers are defined in the BRB; they even get their own chapter. Psyker Henchmen do not override it; in fact, they use the rules themselves (i.e. psychic tests, susceptibility to Perils of the Warp, etc.).

 

As there is no reference to the BRB, while there are such models within the same codex, there is no misunderstanding. It is a clear reference to the Psykers that can be found in the GK codex.

I'm sorry, but you're confused here. It's a reference to Psykers which - without specifically stating it overrides the BRB definition of a Psyker - does refer directly to the BRB definition of Psyker. If it's going to refer to the Psyker Henchmen entry, that would be an override of the BRB ruling...which needs be specifically stated.

 

Whether 4 Psykers should be counted as one or not, it's something different that can be discussed later.

As GML said, we did in fact discuss this topic at great length. You should hit the Search on the OR board to see the bulk of the discussion, in which the A.S. is always described as gaining a benefit from all brands of Psyker.

 

If you are still confused, I recommend cross-posting this question in the OR board so it gets proper exposure to our resident rule decoders.

[yperihitikos]

As I wrote in my previous post, every time a rule speaks about something that is covered in the BRB it is written clearly and I gave you specific examples. I would stop being confused if someone could prove me wrong with examples from the codex.

 

The example of Psyker (Mastery Level) is a good example that supports the idea that when the author wants to refer to a rule outside the codex it does it in the description of the rule. In the case of culexus, the author didn't choose to do so. His action from my point of view seems deliberate. It's not a codex that the players should decide themselves what is the meaning of psyker in the labeled units. The author gave the needed explanation first.

 

I accept that every psyker model contributes to culexus' weapon only because it is logical. However, it is written in a different way than the rest psykers of the codex, on purpose.

[thade]

Show me where it clearly and unambiguously states that the A.S. works exclusively with Henchmen Psykers.

 

All you have to work with, it seems, is capitalization, which is largely inconsistent for many terms, like terminator/Terminator, librarian/Librarian, and psyker/Psyker. Capitalization is not sufficient for the claim you are making.

 

Unless it states clearly and unabmiguously that the wargear works only with Psyker Henchmen, it's folly to assume that it does. This wargear works with all friendly psykers and enemy psykers who are within range of it.

 

You are inferring a great deal of the author's intentions and goals; unless you are psychic, the author's friend, or the author himself, you are misleading yourself (and potentially others).

 

I'll post this over in the OR board for proper exposure and you can make your case there.

 

ADDENDUM: Head to the OR to continue the sub-thread regarding the Culexus's gun and interpretations of official rulings on it.