Something Wycked Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Yeah but since no of the weapons is better than AP 4 their shooting attacks aint gonna make that much damage. And you cant shot while you are in combat which you are most of the time. But I havent thought of runing them allong side Interceptors. That sound like a good idea. You'd be surprised. Since you can position the HI any way you like, you get maximum coverage of the targeted squad- maximum hits, and then roll 2+ to wound. If your opponent is a Marine and gets saves at all, you force a ton of dice rolls on them and can inflict a decent number of casualties. If your opponent isn't MEQ, basically every model the template touches gets removed from the table. Who needs a pf when a 5 LC Termies and Termies Chap can kill it. Well that is what happened to someone I know. The thing didn't get a wound back at the squad. The thing with Dreadknights is that they will be murdered by assaulty units. They don't have enough Toughness or Attacks to kill a unit by themselves but they can tarpit good. Someone you know got very unlucky. LC's shouldn't do much to a DK since they need 6's to wound. Even with the rerolls, that's terrible odds. The only assaulty unit my DK's have been "murdered" by is Hammernators. 3++ to soak the DK's hits and then S8 counterattacks is brutal. But really, you think they don't have the toughness or attacks to kill a unit by themselves? Its toughness 6 with Terminator saves. Its hard to get much harder to kill than that. 3 attacks is plenty if you give it the Greatsword; my experience has been 4 dead models on the charge, 3 dead models every round thereafter, plus Fearless wounds if applicable- or a fully wiped squad if not applicable. Rerolling both hits and wounds is brutal against infantry with a S6 power weapon -_- Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238753-close-combat-dreadknigts/page/2/#findComment-2880865 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Clausel Posted September 20, 2011 Author Share Posted September 20, 2011 You'd be surprised. Since you can position the HI any way you like, you get maximum coverage of the targeted squad- maximum hits, and then roll 2+ to wound. If your opponent is a Marine and gets saves at all, you force a ton of dice rolls on them and can inflict a decent number of casualties. If your opponent isn't MEQ, basically every model the template touches gets removed from the table. Nah didnt really get suprised. Ive tryed a few times. Offcourse you are covering alot of minis with the template but since most of my enemies are marines they save most of them. Dont get me wrong its an awesome weapon and I would love to have it on my DKs but I simply dont have the points and for my style of play I can sadly live without it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238753-close-combat-dreadknigts/page/2/#findComment-2880889 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 "Most" of them. You only need to kill 2 Marines for the HI to pay for itself ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238753-close-combat-dreadknigts/page/2/#findComment-2880896 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gornall Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 I have had decent success with a completely barebones DK. For 130 points I usually just deepstrike it and let it go to work. Because it doesn't have any weapons, I just run it during turns when I can't charge, which helps mitigate its slow speed somewhat. At worst, it sucks up some heavy fire, and several times it has went on a rampage and made its points back its points many times over. For the price, it doesn't have to do too much. I find that bringing it in from reserves keeps it from getting immediately shot off the board as I can use reserve modifiers to bring it on after most of my opponent's AP2 weaponry is either dead or needed for other tasks. Also, five Str 6 MC attacks on the charge is enough to mess up most MSU/combat squads or even slow moving vehicles. YMMV Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238753-close-combat-dreadknigts/page/2/#findComment-2880965 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crynn Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 I have had decent success with a completely barebones DK. For 130 points I usually just deepstrike it and let it go to work. Because it doesn't have any weapons, I just run it during turns when I can't charge, which helps mitigate its slow speed somewhat. At worst, it sucks up some heavy fire, and several times it has went on a rampage and made its points back its points many times over. For the price, it doesn't have to do too much. I find that bringing it in from reserves keeps it from getting immediately shot off the board as I can use reserve modifiers to bring it on after most of my opponent's AP2 weaponry is either dead or needed for other tasks. Also, five Str 6 MC attacks on the charge is enough to mess up most MSU/combat squads or even slow moving vehicles. YMMV I rate this use of a dreadknight though I would still probably give it a HI as it is a bargain, barebones deepstrike or just running it across the board is a much more efficient way to run them. Think of it as a trigon that cost's 70-40 points less has 2 less wounds but a better armor save and invuln 2 psychic powers and WS5 (trygon might be WS5 as well) and may have an awesome flamer tempalte based weapon. Regards, Crynn Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238753-close-combat-dreadknigts/page/2/#findComment-2881007 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 There are too many armies that can blaze a slogging NDK. If you wanna use one then give him the necessary tools. He will thank you. :D G ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238753-close-combat-dreadknigts/page/2/#findComment-2881018 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crynn Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 There are too many armies that can blaze a slogging NDK. If you wanna use one then give him the necessary tools. He will thank you. :D G :P Once you deep strike him using grand strat and skulls he should be in charge range meaning they only get 1 turn of shooting at him which is exactly the same as the shunting one except he costs less and will arrive at the same time as your paladins which is much mroe usefull than one shunting up to be a threat first turn when nothing else is and just getting removed. I am still yet to face a dread knight that has done anything, or seen one used against a good player and have it do anything. At least if it were 100 points cheaper but still absorbed the same ammount of fire I would see a point to it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238753-close-combat-dreadknigts/page/2/#findComment-2881040 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godhead Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 I like running them with PT, HI, NDH. That hammer is str 10 and 2d6 ap. PLUS if you are like me and manage to pen and roll junk on the vehicle dmg chart, you still shake the vehicle so those plasma gun toting vets cant fire unless they get out, which is what I want 9 times out of 10 anyways. The things a NDK can manage to deal with in CC doesn't need the sword to do that. Now an outflanking NDK or a shunting one forces a mechanized opponent to bring that thing down ASAP or risk it going through vehicles like a hot knife through butter. The HI is pretty nice too for hitting rear armor and side armor of chimeras. Str 6 can easily pop those. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238753-close-combat-dreadknigts/page/2/#findComment-2881042 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gornall Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 I've tried a tooled out DK a few times and found that people prioritize killing it ASAP, neutralizing the 200+ points invested in it, often before it can do very much damage. A cheap one tends to get prioritized lower on the target list and I have found that it actually gets to do something. It isn't the beast that pimped out one would be, but it is SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper. Once again, this has been using a single DK in a hybrid list. In Draigowing or lists with multiple DKs or shunting units, pimping the DKs out probably makes a lot more sense. YMMV Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238753-close-combat-dreadknigts/page/2/#findComment-2881056 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Once you deep strike him using grand strat and skulls he should be in charge range meaning they only get 1 turn of shooting at him which is exactly the same as the shunting one except he costs less and will arrive at the same time as your paladins which is much mroe usefull than one shunting up to be a threat first turn when nothing else is and just getting removed. This is why you run him with Interceptors as well. Synergy, synergy, synergy. Throwing a lone PTDK in your opponent's face is just begging him to focus fire on it. 20 Interceptors, 2 PTDKs. Too much to focus on, plenty of synergy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238753-close-combat-dreadknigts/page/2/#findComment-2881064 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gornall Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Once you deep strike him using grand strat and skulls he should be in charge range meaning they only get 1 turn of shooting at him which is exactly the same as the shunting one except he costs less and will arrive at the same time as your paladins which is much mroe usefull than one shunting up to be a threat first turn when nothing else is and just getting removed. This is why you run him with Interceptors as well. Synergy, synergy, synergy. Throwing a lone PTDK in your opponent's face is just begging him to focus fire on it. 20 Interceptors, 2 PTDKs. Too much to focus on, plenty of synergy. Exactly... I couple my lone, deepstriking NDK with Pallies and vehicles... basically a slow, grinding march on the opponent versus your shunting force. Both strategies have their own, different synergies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238753-close-combat-dreadknigts/page/2/#findComment-2881070 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Indeed, shunting a lone dk in front of your enemy unsupported is asking for it to die. Shunting up a flank while your main force advances up the centre brings different results :lol: I use my 2 dk's differently depending on the mission and my opponent. A pair of them shunting is rather threatening, and I love heavy incinerators vs hordes :D even if they both die, they are the cheapest units in my army (singularly), and my paladins use the time bought by my dks to pwn the enemy force :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238753-close-combat-dreadknigts/page/2/#findComment-2881277 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elric the Silvercoat Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 That last time I read the FAQ it said that Dreadknights can't use the Shunt move from the PT. Am I wrong or did they change it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238753-close-combat-dreadknigts/page/2/#findComment-2881363 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 That last time I read the FAQ it said that Dreadknights can't use the Shunt move from the PT. Am I wrong or did they change it. The FAQ doesn't say that at all. You're probably getting mixed up with the ruling that units with Scout can't shunt for their Scout move. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238753-close-combat-dreadknigts/page/2/#findComment-2881384 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elric the Silvercoat Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 That last time I read the FAQ it said that Dreadknights can't use the Shunt move from the PT. Am I wrong or did they change it. The FAQ doesn't say that at all. You're probably getting mixed up with the ruling that units with Scout can't shunt for their Scout move. Maybe I will look at the FAQ again to see what I may have gotten mixed up about. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238753-close-combat-dreadknigts/page/2/#findComment-2881423 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fume Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I run three in my 1850 list. So far they have gone very well for me. I run: 2x DK /w HI + teleporter. 1x DK /w HI + teleporter + Sword If i had the points for 2 more swords i would take them, they are worth every point. They really are very difficult for people to kill. Usually when i charge a marine unit with a sword i kill 4. With out the sword, bad luck can ruin you. 3's to hit with 5 attacks can produce some poor results. But the re-roll guarantees killing alot. The heavy incinerator is so gold i didnt even bother magnetising them, glued those puppies straight on as i will never run DKs with out them. The hammer should be avoided IMO. It makes you considerably worse in infantry combat, and is hardly needed for vehicles unless your hunting land raiders. Even then str7 + 2d6 pen is averaging a glance. With the sword your more likly to hit and damage though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238753-close-combat-dreadknigts/page/2/#findComment-2881930 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 What is the rest of your list like, Fume? I'm curious to see what else you bring with your PTDKs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238753-close-combat-dreadknigts/page/2/#findComment-2881941 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fume Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 What is the rest of your list like, Fume? I'm curious to see what else you bring with your PTDKs. Still mucking around with my last 21 points, but this is what im running: HQ Inquisitor /w 3x servo skulls Heavy Support Dreaknight /w Teleporter + heavy incinerator Dreaknight /w Teleporter + heavy incinerator Dreaknight /w Teleporter + heavy incinerator + sword Troops 5x Terminators /w psycannon +4x Halberd + 1x demon hammer. 5x Terminators /w psycannon +4x Halberd + 1x demon hammer. 5x Terminators /w psycannon +4x Halberd + 1x demon hammer. Elites Venerable Dreadnaught /w 2x TL auto cannons + psybolt ammo Venerable Dreadnaught /w 2x TL auto cannons + psybolt ammo Total 1829 Basically enough 2+ saves to negate ML dev units. Jumping DK move up fast taking most of the fire. Venerables sit back doing what they do. I usually deploy the HQ+terminator unit becuase i have to, then use servo skulls to help deepstrike the other two units down. Becuase i have low troops i like to keep the two terminator units in reserve to protect them for a couple of turns until the DK's have done some damage. They usually come down on turns 2 and 3, and provide good support and act as clean up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238753-close-combat-dreadknigts/page/2/#findComment-2881959 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crynn Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 What is the rest of your list like, Fume? I'm curious to see what else you bring with your PTDKs. Still mucking around with my last 21 points, but this is what im running: HQ Inquisitor /w 3x servo skulls Heavy Support Dreaknight /w Teleporter + heavy incinerator Dreaknight /w Teleporter + heavy incinerator Dreaknight /w Teleporter + heavy incinerator + sword Troops 5x Terminators /w psycannon +4x Halberd + 1x demon hammer. 5x Terminators /w psycannon +4x Halberd + 1x demon hammer. 5x Terminators /w psycannon +4x Halberd + 1x demon hammer. Elites Venerable Dreadnaught /w 2x TL auto cannons + psybolt ammo Venerable Dreadnaught /w 2x TL auto cannons + psybolt ammo Total 1829 Basically enough 2+ saves to negate ML dev units. Jumping DK move up fast taking most of the fire. Venerables sit back doing what they do. I usually deploy the HQ+terminator unit becuase i have to, then use servo skulls to help deepstrike the other two units down. Becuase i have low troops i like to keep the two terminator units in reserve to protect them for a couple of turns until the DK's have done some damage. They usually come down on turns 2 and 3, and provide good support and act as clean up. 15 scoring terminators at 1850? that just isn't enough. you need a GM to make use of those ven dreads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238753-close-combat-dreadknigts/page/2/#findComment-2882071 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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