V Dubbed Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 I'm hoping I can score some tips from the veteran players lurking around this site in regards to coping with an Eldar army that I come up against quite often in my group of 40k friends. Obviously as the title reads, it's the Runes of Warding in particular that have me genuinely vexed. I know I've read several posts (and fully expect so replies) that read "If you rely ENTIRELY on psychic powers... you've already lost" I don't rely on them... and in fact, have become so paranoid about those damned RoW that I never took libbies in my BA army. I've managed thus far without psychic powers but with the GK codex in its new state... psychic powers are just too sweet to leave behind. Sanctuary is a phenom, Shrouding is fantastic, and Hammerhand helps immensely when it's time to punch bad guys in the teeth... ANY direction, tips, tricks or sage advice would be highly appreciated! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238801-eldar-woes-need-advice/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Don't use any Psychic Powers until the Farseer is dead. Use Incinerators to roast Pathfinders. Keep your PA troops inside their transports until the Dark Reapers are dead. /pity the Harlequins. Ignore the Falcons (unless you have nothing else to shoot at) and use your transports to limit Tank Shocks. /pity the Avatar. Don't bother using Land Raiders (Wailing Doom, Wraith Guards, Bright Lances and D Cannons). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238801-eldar-woes-need-advice/#findComment-2880892 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Your squads should - as GML says - forgo using their powers; the risk is huge. If your Librarian (or other IC, or Paladin/Terminator) has a Warding Stave and is in close combat, that 2++ will probably negate Perils for you and the risk suddenly becomes very small. Use GK deployment shenanigans to corral off and pick off the pesky xeno witch. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238801-eldar-woes-need-advice/#findComment-2881072 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 My philosophy is to go ahead and attempt a psychic test if I feel it is necessary. I have had good luck so far. Remember if your Libby is casting in melee and has a warding stave it is not usually a problem for Perils. G :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238801-eldar-woes-need-advice/#findComment-2881082 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thor1234 Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 As Eldar are a main opponent of mine i have had much experience in battling them, a few tips...... kill War walker squadrons armed with dual star cannons 12 S6 ap2 shots usually rerolling hits from guide will ruin terminators! KILL THE FARSEER! an obvious one and no disrespect to black orange but dont do powers until he is dead average rolls of 11 on 3 die with a ld of 9 on units and a perils if more than 10 is rolled will kill squad leaders left right and centre..... I have only succeeded once in casting with runes in effect that was only because i was experementing to see how effective the runes were in a few games, after those few battles i havent bothered til the farseer was removed....... the last tactic i can offer is to keep you small elite force as close together as possible, Eldar will use their superior movment to isolate squads and wipe them out one at a time....... if you can silence eldar transports and take the fight to them you should own them with a combination of shooting and assault to finish the job good luck! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238801-eldar-woes-need-advice/#findComment-2881175 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Don't. Use. Psyker. Powers. When. Trying. Is. Likely. To. Kill. You. It's just that simple. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238801-eldar-woes-need-advice/#findComment-2881375 Share on other sites More sharing options...
V Dubbed Posted September 21, 2011 Author Share Posted September 21, 2011 First things first, thanks for all the insight gents! Now for a question... Would it be wise/worthwhile to bring a Vindicare assassin along for the sole purpose of ventilating the Farseer's skull in the first few turns? Typically my opponent lets the Farseer linger at the back in his squad and Harlequins are usually not far away. Shooting the Farseer has proven a difficult task, and assaulting the Farseer ends in a Harlequin counter-charge and subsequent removal of my models. I won't lie, I have ZERO doubt that my 'generalship' (is that a word? well it is now) is lacking at best... but... typically i'll just leave well enough alone, live without my psychic powers and simply avoid walking into that trap again. Tailoring a list to specifically deal with a single target seems foolhardy... but man, wouldn't it be nice to shoot the face off that pointy-eared witch and then promptly light up my own psykers with ease! Any list suggestions? Use an Int. Squad, shunt, then unleash with Str 5 bolters? Overkill the entire squad with psyfleman dreads on turn one? (use the range and just straight up killi-ness of the ACs to ensure a messy death?) Sniper kill with the vindicare? Or just go old-school with a deepstriking force? Mordrak is sorely tempting due to the no-scatter, turn 1, precision delivery. The ability to drop down 5 or more TDA-clad models and shoot the unit to death sounds fun? How do you guys that play Draigowing deal with Eldar forces? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238801-eldar-woes-need-advice/#findComment-2881571 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elric the Silvercoat Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 First things first, thanks for all the insight gents! Now for a question... Would it be wise/worthwhile to bring a Vindicare assassin along for the sole purpose of ventilating the Farseer's skull in the first few turns? Typically my opponent lets the Farseer linger at the back in his squad and Harlequins are usually not far away. Shooting the Farseer has proven a difficult task, and assaulting the Farseer ends in a Harlequin counter-charge and subsequent removal of my models. I won't lie, I have ZERO doubt that my 'generalship' (is that a word? well it is now) is lacking at best... but... typically i'll just leave well enough alone, live without my psychic powers and simply avoid walking into that trap again. Tailoring a list to specifically deal with a single target seems foolhardy... but man, wouldn't it be nice to shoot the face off that pointy-eared witch and then promptly light up my own psykers with ease! Any list suggestions? Use an Int. Squad, shunt, then unleash with Str 5 bolters? Overkill the entire squad with psyfleman dreads on turn one? (use the range and just straight up killi-ness of the ACs to ensure a messy death?) Sniper kill with the vindicare? Or just go old-school with a deepstriking force? Mordrak is sorely tempting due to the no-scatter, turn 1, precision delivery. The ability to drop down 5 or more TDA-clad models and shoot the unit to death sounds fun? How do you guys that play Draigowing deal with Eldar forces? Yes a Vindcare is awesome when dealing with Farseer first shot is the Shield Breaker which will make him with no save other than cover saves for the rest of the game and it will be easier to sniper him after that. You can't believe the face of your enemy when his Farseer doesn't have its 4++ anymore and may not use psyker powers because he could kill him faster. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238801-eldar-woes-need-advice/#findComment-2881712 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 And after the first game you do that, you'll find every other game the Farseer will be in a Falcon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238801-eldar-woes-need-advice/#findComment-2881771 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Drunk Guardian Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 First things first, thanks for all the insight gents! Now for a question... Would it be wise/worthwhile to bring a Vindicare assassin along for the sole purpose of ventilating the Farseer's skull in the first few turns? Typically my opponent lets the Farseer linger at the back in his squad and Harlequins are usually not far away. Shooting the Farseer has proven a difficult task, and assaulting the Farseer ends in a Harlequin counter-charge and subsequent removal of my models. I won't lie, I have ZERO doubt that my 'generalship' (is that a word? well it is now) is lacking at best... but... typically i'll just leave well enough alone, live without my psychic powers and simply avoid walking into that trap again. Tailoring a list to specifically deal with a single target seems foolhardy... but man, wouldn't it be nice to shoot the face off that pointy-eared witch and then promptly light up my own psykers with ease! Any list suggestions? Use an Int. Squad, shunt, then unleash with Str 5 bolters? Overkill the entire squad with psyfleman dreads on turn one? (use the range and just straight up killi-ness of the ACs to ensure a messy death?) Sniper kill with the vindicare? Or just go old-school with a deepstriking force? Mordrak is sorely tempting due to the no-scatter, turn 1, precision delivery. The ability to drop down 5 or more TDA-clad models and shoot the unit to death sounds fun? How do you guys that play Draigowing deal with Eldar forces? The Vindicare is great in theory... however, I'm one of those people with "1-itis", so as luck would have it, the three times I've gotten to face Eldrad-Eldar, ALL three times I've ended up rolling Dawn of War (a 5/6 I know but this is what happens when you have "1-itis" the dice never go your way) so my opponent has used his Eldrad deployment tricks to assure that he is nowhere near where my Vindicare is going to pop up. Of those three games, only once did I manage to kill Eldrad and that time I devoted so many of my resources to doing so that I lost an objective based game. If you do take the Vindicare, don't count on it to be the only way to deal with the Farseer... you need other methods. One thing that worked incredibly well for me once was a Ordo Hereticus Inquisitior with Psy-Occulum accompanied by a henchman squad in a Chimera with 3x Plasma Cannon Servitors and 2x Jokaero Weaponsmith... not just against a Farseer, but any psyker in the game, this squad will be dropping accurate plasma blasts of death. Its an extremely high priority target for an army with a psyker so I'd recommend using the rest of the spots on cheapo warrior acolytes whose purpose is to die from the resulting Chimera explosion (get the entire squad into cover if possible). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238801-eldar-woes-need-advice/#findComment-2882338 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 The Vindicare is very good but to get the most out of him you've got to be spot on with deployment (both his placement and your other units to screen/support/distract from him) and spot on with target priority (he'll easily remove four to six models from the board during a game, which is not a lot). I think something we haven't mentioned here bears mentioning: the Grey Knights are still bamfs even without their Psychic Powers. They don't need Hammerhand against T3 models; they don't need Warp Quake when very few Eldar units will ever decide to Deep Strike; they don't need Psychic Communion if few to no units are held in Reserves; etc. The powers are nice, but they are seldom a requirement. (If they are a requirement for something in your list, you need to address that now. :P ) Every unit has power weapons, and every unit can have psycannons and/or S5 bolters. Really, the Eldar are lucky they can shut your powers down. Not to mention psyk-out grenades have the potential to ruin any Seer Council's day. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238801-eldar-woes-need-advice/#findComment-2882345 Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 Mile Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 If they like to field their farseers on foot then I would recommend trying out an intercepter squads shunt, or strike squads deep strike to where ever hes hiding and lighting him up, fortune is good, but enough weight of fire will still put that unit down, you could even go so far as to stuff a librarian into that strike squad, giving you that psychic hood right in his face. Most eldar psychic powers are cast at the start of his turn so he will be forced to try and cast through your hood. And, if all else fails, that handy dandy vindicare hiding in the bushes will certainly help. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238801-eldar-woes-need-advice/#findComment-2883768 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freman Bloodglaive Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 You have problems against Eldar? They're toughness 3, wearing tissue paper, and with armour 12 (at best) vehicles. Grey Knights are one of the armies who have the least problems with Eldar, except for the minor problem with getting psychic powers off. That's not that much of an issue. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238801-eldar-woes-need-advice/#findComment-2883830 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 About using psychic powers - some of you sound like ya need to grow a pair. I said use if it's necessary... Necessary to win. Draigo has a 3++ and the Libby can use his 2++ in melee. I mean seriously sometimes you have to take some risks. G B) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238801-eldar-woes-need-advice/#findComment-2883868 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 If the Farseer is on foot, he's in a Squad of Wraithguard. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238801-eldar-woes-need-advice/#findComment-2883873 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 I havent fought footdar yet. I think it could be interesting. G B) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238801-eldar-woes-need-advice/#findComment-2883878 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 They are marine killers. I know there's a lot of doubt about footdar, but they can be really strong. Mainly due to the ;) Dark Reaper Exarch and his :cuss ability to kill you anywhere, with no save. And have a reroll to boot. ;) The Avatar used to be scary (and he would *always* have fortune). But luckily, he's not so much now. The biggest thing with footdar, is they have so many ways of killing your vehicles, and you need your transports to outlive the Dark Reapers. And unless you can get fast Flamers to them (Shunting Interceptors with Incinerators! :D), the pathfinder troops are stupidly durable. And the amount of times I've had them kill my Dreads is silly! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238801-eldar-woes-need-advice/#findComment-2883999 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 Using a psychic power against any Eldar list with runes is seldom a risk worth taking. Average sum across 2d6 is 7. Average sum across 3d6 is just over 10...which for the vast majority of your units is a fail. They fail on an average roll. And with runes anything that fails (or is over 11, I forget) inflicts Perils. You'll drop models left and right for powers you don't really need. See my previous post. In summary, Hammerhand vs T3 is overkill; most of the time you can forgo Force Weapon activation as most targets aren't stacked with wounds; remarkably few Eldar units will ever DS in a way that Warpquake is useful. The risk is seldom worth taking. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238801-eldar-woes-need-advice/#findComment-2885471 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 I have won a couple games versus eldar taking the test. One time Thawn first cast Hammerhand and got by, wounded Eldrad then tested again to activate his force sword and nuked the old farseer. That shutdown their psychic defense and pretty much won me that game. Of course if you just want to play it safe that is fine by me. :D G ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238801-eldar-woes-need-advice/#findComment-2885535 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 You understand, of course, that "It worked this one time for me" doesn't really hold a candle to "E(x) for three six-sided dice", right? <3 When it works, it'll be awesome, of course. In general it will cost you a Justicar for nothing better than S5 against some T3 models that you'll wound on 3s anyway. And they don't get armor saves. Not to mention that the general GK shooting game will probably be a very bad time for Eldar. Their awesome shielding-shenanigans are great against single shot krak missiles or lascannons...they are less great against Psycannon spam. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238801-eldar-woes-need-advice/#findComment-2885537 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 Well first Thawn is undead so it doesn't really matter if he dies since he can get right back up. Second it's dice - anything can happen. I'll definitely take a test on Draigo with his wonderful 3++ and the Libby in melee with his most amazing 2++. Those are acceptable odds for me if the gain is needed. :D G ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238801-eldar-woes-need-advice/#findComment-2885567 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 Don't forget you have to reroll successful Invulnerable saves versus Perils. Damn Eldar again and thier Ghosthelms. :yes: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238801-eldar-woes-need-advice/#findComment-2885605 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 The point of this thread was my perspective was not whether our special characters could still take their tests...but whether our rank-and-file could still use their tests. The presence of Draigo or Thrawn isn't relevant to more than one or two squads out of your 6-8 units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238801-eldar-woes-need-advice/#findComment-2885615 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 Why should the discussion be limited ?? G ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238801-eldar-woes-need-advice/#findComment-2885633 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 Why should the discussion be limited ?? You are missing the point entirely. I'm not trying to limit the discussion. That an IC with Ld 10 and a 3++ invulnerable save can risk his powers is no different for Draigo than it is for a Librarian with a Storm Shield...which is available in several other codecies. It's nothing weird or new for our codex when confronted with Eldar. The only thing different for us is that our vehicles will now often fail Fortitude and likely take an additional glance from it, while our Strike Squads will not be able to use Hammerhand or Warpquake. The ICs aren't what have the problem - as you have emphasized. The problem is with our rank-and-file. The real point is that it's not that much of a problem for rank-and-file, as they can easily handle Eldar without powers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238801-eldar-woes-need-advice/#findComment-2885643 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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