shdwcypher13 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 How do you use your blood claws. deployment and stratagies. and are they worth it Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238879-blood-claws-your-thoughts-on-them-and-uses/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillen Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 My blood claws have a very important roll. They defend my model case. They sit in little cubbies and make sure those cubbies are not used by any other models. They also collect dust. While the other models (grey hunters) are always on the field kicking ass and pwning people, the blood claws see if they can get so dusty they look tan instead of grey. Basicly if they were still cheap they would be worth it. But they are not. They got nerfed and over priced at that same time, which makes them worthless these days. People still use them for fluff reasons. I still have a pack of them. I never field them thou. Grey Hunters are way better for the same price. Weapon skill 3 means they die easy. They took away the 1 fist for every 5 they use to have, and then slapped mmore points on them. When looking at the codex with the GW manager in Victoria BC I said "You know they just killed this squad." he started to argue aganst it then admitted it. When they were cheap it was worth it. They die easy but hey they have 3 fists swinging and they cost so cheap. Now they blow. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238879-blood-claws-your-thoughts-on-them-and-uses/#findComment-2882040 Share on other sites More sharing options...
clanfield Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 and yet mine i use 9 in a rhino with a wolf priest do 2 things(prerfured enermy infantry) no toys 1 they scare the hell out of my regular oponents and draw a lot of fire thus preserveing my grey hunters 2 when they hit a squad it usualy dies quick i dont think there usless just not as good anymore Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238879-blood-claws-your-thoughts-on-them-and-uses/#findComment-2882056 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkCrusader Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I agree with clanfield,the bloodclaws have lots of uses as expendable marines.i think the only reason the new ones are more expensive is so that people dont create a horde type army with tons of cheap troops.space marines are never hordes.so in my view the new price is ok(because i dont like an invincible army) but thats just my opinion. <_< Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238879-blood-claws-your-thoughts-on-them-and-uses/#findComment-2882064 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonSTeR Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 14 or 15 of them in a LRC led by a Wolf Priest (again preferred enemy on infantry) and sometimes accompanied by a WGPL. it's an expensive death star that usually attracts a lot of attention but is more survivable in CC than you first think because of the reroll and sheer weight of numbers. Meanwhile there's nothing to interfere with what the GH are up to. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238879-blood-claws-your-thoughts-on-them-and-uses/#findComment-2882107 Share on other sites More sharing options...
skawolf Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I love to use mine as a 15 man unit, 2x flamers + wolf-priest, on foot. They are fun to play this way, probably not the most competitive though. It does have it's uses as a scary unit when running up a flank behind a pack of fenrisian wolves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238879-blood-claws-your-thoughts-on-them-and-uses/#findComment-2882131 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 @ the OP - Personally, I don't think it's worth taking footslogging BCs unless you're stuffing 15+WP in a LRC and charging the gunline. IMO, unless in that formation, you're better off taking Skyclaws or Swiftclaws if you reeeeaaally need BC units. Otherwise, Grey Hunters are widely felt to be one of (if not THE) best tactical units in the game this edition. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238879-blood-claws-your-thoughts-on-them-and-uses/#findComment-2882195 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wysten Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Theres currently no point to Blood Claws in general without deathstaring/making the list weaker. They cost the same as a Grey Hunter, making them not expendable. They lack a bolter, a weapon skill, a ballistic skill and go nuts without a leader, for +1 attack? Essencally, they lost the ability to fight a substainable combat (WS 3 means you are much more likely to hit and miss.) and all flexablity to swing one more, and their other major trick means that they can't take a Rhino. Meaning you either footslog them or Raider them. The former one could easily do with grey hunters and the latter will probably cost a third of your army. They don't even get their extra attack when charged. They are possibly the least flexabile unit in the codex, bar Fen Wolves and even they have the speed and the expendability to take a big cheap squad of them. Aside from fluff or conciously weakening a list, I just don't see why a blood claw would be used over a Grey Hunter. Just as said, take them in a Rhino is probably the best option since you can probabily set them up for a decent charge that way without brekaing the bank, that, or Raider. Anything else is probably easier done with Grey Hunters anyways. Skyclaws are pretty cool, since they are a very fast moving threat that can force them to respond to. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238879-blood-claws-your-thoughts-on-them-and-uses/#findComment-2882261 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Drunk Guardian Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I think the one thing Blood Claws do better than Grey Hunters is to act as a counter-attack unit. What makes Grey Hunters so good is that they are so flexible between shoot/assault, they are WS4, and have the Wolf Standard which keeps them alive and makes them more killy for one round of combat. My ideal scenario against a real assaulty unit is to drop the Hunters off within 12" of the unit and rapid fire it (also have the Blood Claws flame it out of a Rhino's hatch if i can flank that unit). On the opponent's turn, they charge the Hunters, I pop the standard and counter-attack to put up a significant fight and come out of that round of combat alive. Next turn, I counter-charge with the Blood Claws and their +2A on the charge as well as Wolf Priest's benefits to inflict some massive damage based on volume of dice. ^I would never do this against a unit consisting of all power weapons / fists like Terminators or Howling Banshees... it would be suicide. Those units you just nuke into oblivion through other means. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238879-blood-claws-your-thoughts-on-them-and-uses/#findComment-2882311 Share on other sites More sharing options...
techmarine Azuris Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 TBH most things you will still hit on a 4+, and GH rarely hit on 3s anyway...I think they work in LRC or rhino+ WP, and tbh if u run 2/3xGH and 1BC you will still do well. There are times where that one extra attack will make all the difference! Other options ofc are skyclaws which are insanly fun to use, but dont have the protection of a Rhino, so my 2 pence say if u take them magnetise them JP and normal backpack :P Its not that they're bad, they're just not as good as GH dont underestimate them as they too can shine in certain situations! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238879-blood-claws-your-thoughts-on-them-and-uses/#findComment-2882313 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simo429 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 They're fun in a none competetive game especially apocolypse where you really aren't worrying about points levels. There is no doubt that few things stand up to Ragnar, a wolf priest and a load of blood claws in a crusader however I have to disagree that they have a purpose as expendable marines, there isn't any such thing in competitive play, some units have to be sacrificed however you don't build a list planning for something to be sacrificed, thats just wasted points. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238879-blood-claws-your-thoughts-on-them-and-uses/#findComment-2882626 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Scourge Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 They're perfect as a dust shield for my Grey Hunters while they sit on my shelf. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238879-blood-claws-your-thoughts-on-them-and-uses/#findComment-2882665 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shdwcypher13 Posted September 22, 2011 Author Share Posted September 22, 2011 So what would be a good number to take if your planning on them to be in a fun (if at times store competitive ) list. Say as an opposite to berzerkers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238879-blood-claws-your-thoughts-on-them-and-uses/#findComment-2882692 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karack Blackstone Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Having used both, the two following are the most common loadouts for Blood Claws: Rhino w/ EA WP (PE: Infantry, Kit as needed) WGPL (Fist, whatever you wish) 8 Blood Claws (PW) OR LRC w/ EA WP (as above) WGPL (Fist, whatever; or, if you're going all anti-infantry, BP/PW, or WC/WC) 14 Blood Claws (PW) Failing interest in either of the above two (the LRC pack tends to be a major threat rolling around): 10 Skyclaws (PW or PF depending) WP w/ JP (as above) Each of the three have some ups and downs. Rhino pack: - Low model count, comparative to pack size - No real shooting potential - Razorback means a smaller pack, and no WGPL - If all you can get is a Rhino, it's going to be flat out until you get them there, sit an enemy turn out inside the Rhino or deployed behind it, and then assault. LRC pack: - Blood Claws truly shine here: Front Assault Ramp with Frag Assault Launchers means the enemy is not liking life, even if they are in cover. - Nice, high body count: closest SW get to a horde unit, with a great many attacks each, and the chance to assault even if you go full move distance on the vehicle. - WP and WGPL mean the unit has its needed support, both in rerolls on infantry, as well as a supporting fist, or a second PW or a pair of WC's. (I have one just for this, but was voted down on him due to the fist being better overall.) - A big eggs in one basket approach, but considered one of the most standard death star units, and it's in AV 14: really hard to crack this thing without meltas up close, and Long Range can help counter those. Skyclaws: - WP is nice, but see below - No chance to add a WGPL, so no PF with 2 base attacks - 10 Skyclaws, fast, but fragile: No different from troops stuck in the open when it comes to high strength blast template weapons - Not exactly a great option, but I have some: They are great if you don't mind the multi WP approach to a list. We have to have unique HQ's, and close yet similar is frowned upon. Overall, I'd vote for the LRC 14 man BC Pack with WP and WGPL w/ Fist, more often than not. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238879-blood-claws-your-thoughts-on-them-and-uses/#findComment-2882717 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shdwcypher13 Posted September 22, 2011 Author Share Posted September 22, 2011 just out of curiousity what would the Berzeker side look like? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238879-blood-claws-your-thoughts-on-them-and-uses/#findComment-2882813 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karack Blackstone Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 That truly depends upon the player one is up against. Plus there's the whole Chaos special numbers stuff. Assuming it's 8: 8 man 'Zerkers in Rhino (Maybe a Melee HQ) 16 footsloggers (Maybe also with a Melee HQ, like Khârn) Soften both up: the same mobility a tank gives us, it can grant to the enemy. If you have LF's or other Ranged support, consider the 'Zerkers something you never want to have charge on their terms. Chaos does not have access to the Land Raider Crusader; consider this a good thing, as its capacity of 16 would really mean a bad day for whatever that Khorne Berserker unit hits. Our Blood Claws do not hit as hard, or as high a WS, but in terms of loyalist forces, BC's can do a great deal of damage. Referencing the above point I made on sending a full LRC w/ WP into a Green Tide: the same issue that BC's have versus KBerserkers is that they effectively tarpit each other. If that's what you're going for, then that's a good thing. The point is to weaken them and take them out. I don't recall what FOC slot KB's are; BC's however are a Troop choice, and can hold an objective. Therefore, try to keep them alive. Edit: name fail. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238879-blood-claws-your-thoughts-on-them-and-uses/#findComment-2882820 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Assuming you have the models/money, just go ahead and make yourself 15 Blood Claws (with *magnetized backpacks) for a "rainy day" scenario. I doubt you'll ever need more than a single MAXED footslogging BC pack without further play-testing, and by the time you figure it out, you'll be more than prepared. * - for converting back and forth to Skyclaws. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238879-blood-claws-your-thoughts-on-them-and-uses/#findComment-2882846 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freman Bloodglaive Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Paint their shoulderpads and promote them to Grey Hunters. You don't even need to show that they have bolters. Honestly, in game terms the Space Wolves have great external balance against most other armies, but our internal balance is somewhat lacking. Rune Priests, Grey Hunters and Long Fangs are obvious must takes, Blood Claws an obvious leave behind. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238879-blood-claws-your-thoughts-on-them-and-uses/#findComment-2882865 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shdwcypher13 Posted September 22, 2011 Author Share Posted September 22, 2011 at this point I'll probably get some dislike for my next statement but.......I'm considering Dual Dex'ing SW and Chaos. Now I know there is a crap load of people out there that are against this and loyal to SW as a whole. But after the GW post of thier Blood Wolves I'v fallen in love with the thought. I'm looking into all options and senarios. And the only thing I'm having an issue with is makeing a unit of dual BS/Zerk's. Huh...wow now my secrets out.....I should run and hide behind the nearest warp portal not......... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238879-blood-claws-your-thoughts-on-them-and-uses/#findComment-2882872 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaleOpener Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Its a shame players bash them, not seeing they're just like scouts from other chapters. I like the large 15man pack, as the core of my slogging list, led by various HQ. I like skyclaws led by a WP, and swiftclaws packs that scare my opponents into protecting their vehicles/tanks. They have won games for me, and my list works as a well-oiled machine. *** As for going cross-codex, it seems the latest thing. Players using BA & SW codex-es, for their CSM lists. Its a shame, really, as the CSM still works quite well. If Skyrar's Dark Wolves, are the CSM band you're talking about, I'd stick with the CSM codex. Just love the stats, and you could add berserkers. *** Just my thoughts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238879-blood-claws-your-thoughts-on-them-and-uses/#findComment-2883038 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkCrusader Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Ditto to all of the above Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238879-blood-claws-your-thoughts-on-them-and-uses/#findComment-2883053 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shdwcypher13 Posted September 23, 2011 Author Share Posted September 23, 2011 Based off the gw blood wolves actually. And I want to primarily dex to use the sw sex for the list by also use the csm dex. So in fact a dual list set up. And to use the bc is something I thing would be a good central unit. Making people thing about the bc the wonder what's in Mu transports. Would be fun to distract them with the infantry threat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238879-blood-claws-your-thoughts-on-them-and-uses/#findComment-2883318 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freman Bloodglaive Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Dual listing to make an army? One, not legal unless playing with very lenient friends. Two, why bother since the Wolf list is better than that gimped mess that is the Chaos codex? Blood Claws are not like scouts from other chapters. Scouts are cheap, and bring something to the table that Tactical marines don't (decent troops) with their sniper rifles. Blood Claws bring nothing to the table that isn't done better by Grey Hunters for the same cost, except the ability to take larger squads for greater cost and the cost of a transport. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238879-blood-claws-your-thoughts-on-them-and-uses/#findComment-2883780 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karack Blackstone Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Just use Codex: Space Wolves. Your opponents should not have much of an issue, unless they're like me and just don't like the idea of the Blood Wolves. We can't fall unwillingly to Chaos, so why choose to serve Chaos? Makes no sense. As far as Blood Claws, I say use what you will, yet know the difference as to what you're trading out. Grey Hunters are an all-around better unit. However, that said, our recruits must come from somewhere. As Space Wolves, our Codex says our recruits, Blood Claws, are used to charge the enemy, and are likely amongst the best assault units within the Loyalist forces of the Imperium. How else do they gain experience besides fighting? The Ragnar books are quite clear: trade in the calm, collected and even-keeled Grey Hunter for a Blood Claw whenever you need the assault to be utterly devastating to the enemy. That Grey Hunters upon the table-top are great does not negate that at some point, each was once a Blood Claw. Sure, they're not going to necessarily excel outside of a charge; they just might be the best thing to keep the enemy busy while the Grey Hunters move into position, however. Take what you will, OP. Just be ready to find out that Blood Claws are not an all-comers unit, that most tournament lists call for, whereas Grey Hunters are. Edit: gotta love typing errors. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238879-blood-claws-your-thoughts-on-them-and-uses/#findComment-2883832 Share on other sites More sharing options...
techmarine Azuris Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 My BC have never failed me! :) Go for it seriously a laugh and they have won me a Tourney! :D so yh I find mine work best 8xBC (melta, fist) 1x WL 1x WP. Never failed me tbh :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238879-blood-claws-your-thoughts-on-them-and-uses/#findComment-2884049 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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