Roesor Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Long story short my friend broke up with his missus and had to ditch his 40k armies, bought off him as a favour and he's a fair few Thousand sons. I have a space wolf player who desperately wants to play against a Thousand sons army but psyker/chaos/etc... has never really been my thing (I dabbled in Slaanesh for a while). Educate me in the basics o' magical masters O.o Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238914-pointers-and-ploggish-musings/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 -Rhinos help to protect your overcosted anti-meq Rubrics and to get them where needed -Rubrics aren't that hot in close combat, this is usually helped by taking one or two Daemon Princes. -reliable long range anti-tank outside of Obliterators is a weakness of the entire Codex, but it affects the TSons more than most due to the price of Rubrics and other units required to make them work. Bolt of Change can help against this but it is both pricy and unreliable (str 8) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238914-pointers-and-ploggish-musings/#findComment-2882351 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menkeroth Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 My two cents to Nihm's words. To protect your Sons in close combat you can run a squad or two of usual marines with the Icon of Tzeentch. With flamers and 3 attacks while charging they can be very effective in close combat. Daemon Prince is indeed a very good choice - with mark of Tzeentch he will have 4++ and two powers. Anti-tank is also indeed a problem but it can be solved. Bolts of change to Aspiring Sorcerers, DP and vehicles. Also Possessed with the Icon of Tzeentch can be useful. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238914-pointers-and-ploggish-musings/#findComment-2882582 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethrion Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 My two cents from my experiences using my Thousand Sons. >Always pay for extra armoured rhinos for your squads of rubrics if the points allow >Contrary to the above posts I've found rubric squads to hold their own in combat quite nicely. The 4+ inv makes them extremely survivable and all those power weapon attacks or monstrous creature attacks can just bounce off them. I've had aspiring sorcerers kill Dante twice, Njal and Logan Grimnar. >Following on from the second point - the force weapon the sorcerer has is really good and because he's not an IC he can't be picked out so opponents are going to have to wade through all the rubrics first before reaching him >Giving the aspiring sorcerer warptime also makes the rubric squads better for dealing with close combat - because remember those AP3 bolters are nasty, people will be looking to engage the squads in cqc as fast as possible to prevent them shooting. The warptime power weapon helps the aspiring sorcerer hit back. Just remember that he can only use one psychic power a turn and using the force weapon counts as a power so chose one or the other. >Heavy support in the chaos codex is either havocs or obliterators really. Preds suck. I prefer obliterators cos it allows you tactical flexibility to deepstrike if you need, makes your oppo think you might at the very least altering his deployment, they can be put in terrain to get a 4+ cover and they have a variety of weapons. Keep them near your rubrics and they can act as the extra powerfists and cqc hitting power that you need. >HQ choice either 2xDP with wings and warptime + [power of your choice] OR sorcerers. benefit of infantry sorcerers is they can be hidden in a unit and are not out in the open like daemon princes. Putting them on bikes is a good way to rush up in cover 3+ or at best out of sight somewhere and then hit them with wind of chaos then assault and warptime = not bad hitting power - most probably will die but you can threaten lots of back table squads like devastators or scouts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238914-pointers-and-ploggish-musings/#findComment-2882922 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 The warptime power weapon helps the aspiring sorcerer hit back. Just remember that he can only use one psychic power a turn and using the force weapon counts as a power so chose one or the other.He may use two powers actually, Codex CSM page 88. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238914-pointers-and-ploggish-musings/#findComment-2883245 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethrion Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 The warptime power weapon helps the aspiring sorcerer hit back. Just remember that he can only use one psychic power a turn and using the force weapon counts as a power so chose one or the other.He may use two powers actually, Codex CSM page 88. Wow! I'm an idiot. I've been nerfing myself all these years by playing aspiring sorcerers as Lv1 and only ever casting one or the other!! jeez Thousand Sons are hard enough without me making battles more difficult. Thanks for the heads up! *reports to Rubricification room for automatonization* :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238914-pointers-and-ploggish-musings/#findComment-2883790 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roesor Posted September 24, 2011 Author Share Posted September 24, 2011 All awesome, in addition; this is supposed to be a pre-heresy army so what's with these cults? Any special shoulder markings etc? And what coulor were they previously if different O.o My friends finally gone to his parents so I can now take stock of what I've actually got, so list of stuff to follow later. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238914-pointers-and-ploggish-musings/#findComment-2884218 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 In my experience playing 1ksons... They hate fighting extremes... Mass armour (vehicles) cause them problems... mass 2+ saves (deathwing) cause them problems... Huge blobs of infantry (guard, orks, nids) can also cause them problems... This being said Space Wolves might not be that bad (Don't read this as an easy fight.) depending on what he takes... If he takes lots of upgrades his army could end up being smaller than the average space marine army and may or may not have many terminators or vehicles... Rune priests may be annoying but hey... can't win them all... As for combat... I find rubrics can survive but can't be expected to beat everything off... Against 30 orks they will do no better than normal marines... In fact they do worse because if they charge they strike at I1... But against elite units... say 7 Wolf guard with power weapons... your save drops by 1 but you should still save half the wounds and with warp time your sorcerer should get some kills... so it is possible to win. Remeber you can move shoot and charge in one turn... Don't want to be in combat? Walk backwards and shoot... Can't escape combat? Then ask yourself if denying them extra attacks but striking at I1 is better or if taking the charge but going at I4 is better. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238914-pointers-and-ploggish-musings/#findComment-2884469 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kierdale Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 All awesome, in addition; this is supposed to be a pre-heresy army so what's with these cults? Any special shoulder markings etc? And what coulor were they previously if different O.o My friends finally gone to his parents so I can now take stock of what I've actually got, so list of stuff to follow later. If you're doing them pre-Heresy then they should be red and gold (or white, depending on which artwork you use) as opposed to their blue and yellow Chaos colours. The cults have an additional marking in the middle of the serpentine-star Legion insignia: Corvidae: a raven's head Pavoni: a long, colourful feather Pyrae: a scarlet phoenix This thread indicates the Athanaean's symbol is an eye with five rays coming out of it There is no mention of the Raptorae's marking Considering where these markings are located they'd have to be pretty small (a challenge to paint!) Some information on the cults can be found Here at the Lexicanum. As for artwork, check the cover of A Thousand Sons and Collected Visions is full of pre-Heresy Thousand Sons images. A few other B&C members are making pre-HH (or during-the-HH) Thousand Sons (as am I), you should be able to find their photos on the boards. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238914-pointers-and-ploggish-musings/#findComment-2885175 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roesor Posted September 26, 2011 Author Share Posted September 26, 2011 Awesome =D You guys rock. Hellios: You da man o.O I had forgotten they were even relentless! And yeah, because it's supposed to be 'Prospero' and have no experience against his ample experience I'm not expecting to win, but nor do I want to be a pushover. I do expect rune priests to be my main annoyance. Although not against Tempus's rules for Magnus (immune to hoods and the like =D) Kierdale: Also da man =D Becuase I expect to lose I'd really like my models to look the buisness, and the coulor scheme is very good news, means I don't have to stick with Thousand sons later on, as they'd also look quite fitting as Corsairs or Word Bearers. Edit: Apparently the Raptora Cult is '...a blue circle pattern...' As for my updated list of Chaos: - Ahriman. - Tzeetch Terminator Lord. - Random Chaos Lord. - Demon Prince. - Sorceror Lord. - Slaanesh Lord on Mount. - 5 Terminators. - 5 Raptors. - Around 20 Possessed. - 20 Berserkers. - 20 Noise Marines. - 10 Plauge Marines. - 5 Bikers. - 20 Genuine Rubrics. + Every horn headed chaos marine I can realistically convert into Rubrics. - Remaining Chaos Marines. - Two Defilers. - Predator. - 2 Rhinos. - Baneblade. (If I don't convert to Loyalist) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238914-pointers-and-ploggish-musings/#findComment-2885800 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narse Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 As for my updated list of Chaos: - Ahriman. - Tzeetch Terminator Lord. - Random Chaos Lord. - Demon Prince. - Sorceror Lord. - Slaanesh Lord on Mount. - 5 Terminators. - 5 Raptors. - Around 20 Possessed. - 20 Berserkers. - 20 Noise Marines. - 10 Plauge Marines. - 5 Bikers. - 20 Genuine Rubrics. + Every horn headed chaos marine I can realistically convert into Rubrics. - Remaining Chaos Marines. - Two Defilers. - Predator. - 2 Rhinos. - Baneblade. (If I don't convert to Loyalist) With that amount of chaos marines you could pretty much field anything. The big problem for Thousand Sons specific armies is adequate transport busting. Because of this, I would take a hard look at how those terminators, raptors, predator, and bikes are equipped. Cause how they are equipped determines how and in what capacity you will use them. According to what you posted you really only have 3 heavy support choices as well... the good news is the Defilers are good no matter what the configuration as you just use the battle cannon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238914-pointers-and-ploggish-musings/#findComment-2886224 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethrion Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 I would definitely include at least 1 unit of chosen that outflank with 5x meltaguns. That would help your anti-tank threat. Deepstriking terminators with combi-melta guns is also a possibility for tank busting but it's less guaranteed and it's cost especially with the Mark of Tzeentch. It would be better to have the terminators advance with the rubrics in support of them. Leave the long range firepower to obliterators. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238914-pointers-and-ploggish-musings/#findComment-2886958 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roesor Posted September 28, 2011 Author Share Posted September 28, 2011 Thanks for the advice chums. Your continued help is appreciated, mayhaps one day from now we shall change history. And Russ and his puppies shall fall against the magicks of the Thousand Sons O.o Thanks to ample amount of bitz I can pretty much equip whatever I please, to whatever I please. That's why I didn't go into specifics on the equipment. (Apart from the defilers, as you said though, mainly the battlecannon) oh, I also have a chaos dreadnought (and several spare convertable AoBR ones) I figure I don't fancy it's unreliablity, so I decided to equip any chaos dread's with dual close combat weapons. That way if I roll a 1 it counts as sane, and if I roll a 6 it has dual ccw and that's exactly what I'd be wanting it to do anyway :) As for heavy support, I should have some CSM's leftover for Havocs, and have two dog chewed terminators that are begging to be made into Obliterators. I also now have 3 blank Vindicators....I'm not sure where they are going yet though. Edit: Oh and my missus found a setting on our camera that takes acceptable pictures so you should see my first tester unit soon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238914-pointers-and-ploggish-musings/#findComment-2887646 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roesor Posted September 28, 2011 Author Share Posted September 28, 2011 First tester unit. First; what I'm working from. 1a) http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/307032_10150399682441271_744126270_10456791_1223529587_n.jpg 1b) http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/313690_10150399682621271_744126270_10456793_1781252503_n.jpg Test AS http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/314679_10150399682896271_744126270_10456800_1699133907_n.jpg Test Squad http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/319922_10150399683231271_744126270_10456807_276679521_n.jpg Test Terminator http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/309015_10150399682851271_744126270_10456798_1580232501_n.jpg As I mentioned above there were only 20 or so genuine (Rubric) Thousand Sons, and although that's not so much of an issue using the heresy era rules etc (from Tempus) I'd like to use them in 40k as well so I'd like to know if you think these next two would pass muster as Rubrics (mainly just the helmets) if it helps I'm planning some sort of Genuine Rubric/Apprentice Rubric, squad organisation. (Initiate/Neophyte feels very natural to me as a Templar). 2a) http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/315488_10150399683001271_744126270_10456803_1267907915_n.jpg 2b) http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/316121_10150399683051271_744126270_10456804_1380816594_n.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/238914-pointers-and-ploggish-musings/#findComment-2887705 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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