What Other Armies Really Suck Right Now

[techsoldaten]

In the process of getting beaten by an unstoppable horde of SoBs with all their faith points the other day, it hit home that Codex Chaos Space Marines is really a horrible, horrible Codex. When GW changes direction on the game midstream, has someone leave who is responsible for designing mechanics, or just plain makes a mistake, it impacts large numbers of people and takes YEARS to correct. Large numbers of people who have spent hundreds and thousands of dollars on the game, I might add.

 

If this was a video game, GW would have been out of business a long time ago. People get all out of whack over a $50 purchase all the time, and I can't fathom why there would not be a more coherent response from people who have spent a lot more.

 

Anyways, with all the rumors about 6th edition, it got me to thinking that Chaos is probably going to get a serious overhaul and become playable again akin to what has happened with GK. This made me think, okay, fine, but for that to happen, someone else's army is going to get screwed, and in a couple years it's going to suck again for CSMs.

 

What other armies, besides Chaos, suck right now?

 

I know about Tyranids under 5th edition, but don't play with Tyranid players enough to know how bad it actually is. How bad is it for Black Templars, Dark Angels, and others who have not gotten the pre-6th ed treatment? Are the Orks still getting shafted with expensive, unpredictable troops?

 

More importantly, what tournaments should I pay attention to in order to understand the balance issues at play here?

 

Thanks in advance

[the jeske]

In the process of getting beaten by an unstoppable horde of SoBs with all their faith points the other day, it hit home that Codex Chaos Space Marines is really a horrible, horrible Codex

:yes:

You are doing something wrong or you are trolling.

[Menkeroth]

Don't agree. Orks're quite strong for now and have a very good codex. Necrons and SoB - perhaps, but even now Monoliths're very strong... Tyranids're also sometimes have turnies as they have two very powerful tactics - mobs of gaunts with Tervigons and other great beasts for synapse and the genestealers limit.

BT and DA're in quite bad position but still can have turnies. Deathwing even now is good enough as also BT footsloggas.

Tau really have problems, much more than others.

[Kristoff]

Chaos Marines problem isn't that they suck, it's that they lost the flavor and options of their previous codex completely, and then everyone else started getting sooo much better.

 

So, with that in mind, Tau, Sisters, Daemons, and Necrons.

[red_starrise]

By comparison to EVERY other marine codex, the standard marines are kinda getting the shaft in lack of flavor department w/ every single chapter besides: GK, DA, BA, BT & SW being lumped into one codex, just like Chaos.

 

The White Scars dynamic blitzkrieg is non-existant for the most part, as is the Ravenguard's proliferation of librarians & special assault tactics & then the Salamanders w/ their plethora of heat & hammer weapons are so-so under Vulkan H'Estan. The Imperial Fists are siege warfare specialists... how? Because IF you take Capt Lysander you become stubborn & can fortify A building?

 

At least C:CSM has the unique troops choices to allow a SMALL amount of Legion differentiation but it's very miniscule at that. I guess GW was afraid of seeing blue & yellow & white & green space marines in the same army :D but it's ok for the Chaos Marines to look like they all squads do their laundry on the same day so no one matches.

 

And, well, no one is going to argue that C:SoB is what it should be. The lack of IG & Inquisitorial support & the assassins all defected to the Grey Knights & no Repressor as well as nerfed Rites makes them a so-so army, I am very sad to say.

 

The Tau in my experiences aren't THAT bad. I mean, no, they can't assault, but that doesn't really need to change. They shoot very well w/ good guns. They falter worse than IG, admittedly, but IG are more afraid of their commissars than the enemy lol.

 

Orks are ok, but pretty much a one-trick pony w/ this codex.

 

Nids, nids aren't too bad at all really, having played against them a decent amount recently.

 

Poor poor BT need to be FAQ'ed to allow them access to the stuff that came out in C:SM AFTER their codex, IOW what GW does best, retcon.

[totgeboren]

The reason for no proper FAQs and erratas used to be tournaments. When they published them in WD, some people would miss that issue, and come to a tournament and suddenly SW vs SW used different rules, or someone came with an illegal army because they didn't know the rules had changed as so on.

 

However, I cannot imagine anyone today attending a tournament and at the same time lacking access to the internet.

 

I mean, there are lots of things in both C:CSM and C:Nids that look like flat out misprints. Like plasmapistol cost for Raptors and Chosen, most of the entry for Carnifexses and so on. these are things that are easy to change, and would improve the products that GW are selling, thereby increasing the sales. But they don't do it.

Maybe they want people to lose interest and spend their money elsewhere, only to return after 5 years when their favourite factions gets a new codex? To me it just looks like incompetence.

 

As to the op, there will always be a worst army, and that one is most often the oldest codex out there.

[greatcrusade08]

am i the only person who thinks the chaos dex is actually pretty good?

adding onto that the nid dex is pretty useful too

[Bearingtheword]

am i the only person who thinks the chaos dex is actually pretty good?

adding onto that the nid dex is pretty useful too

 

 

Let me answer that this way, Crusade:

 

"I can, and do, eat ramen noodles....but I'd much prefer a nice Shrimp Cappellini Pomodoro or a Linguine y fruite di mare....because ramen noodles have no flavour, just like our current 'dex...."

 

Is it playable? Yes.

 

Can we build nice fluffy units? Sort of.

 

Is there really more than one competitive build? Not really.

 

Would I choose it over the previous 'dex? Hell no.

 

Do I still play them anyway? Yes, yes I do. Mainly because I love the idea behind my host...

 

But I will agree with you on 'nids...I love playing mine as well as playing against them. In my experience they do well and are fun.

 

To answer the original question, I'd have to say that Necrons are the worst after C:CSM. At least that has been my experience...

 

~BtW

[Lord_Caerolion]

By comparison to EVERY other marine codex, the standard marines are kinda getting the shaft in lack of flavor department w/ every single chapter besides: GK, DA, BA, BT & SW being lumped into one codex, just like Chaos.

 

The White Scars dynamic blitzkrieg is non-existant for the most part,

Well, I guess the "Bikes as Troops" bit in the codex, as well as Khan, isn't allowing for mounted, fast forces then.

 

as is the Ravenguard's proliferation of librarians

Err, what? You're thinking of the Blood Ravens.

 

the Salamanders w/ their plethora of heat & hammer weapons are so-so under Vulkan H'Estan.

Which is of course why he's one of the most-used Loyalist characters, because he's just not great...

 

The Imperial Fists are siege warfare specialists... how? Because IF you take Capt Lysander you become stubborn & can fortify A building?

You'll also remember that they're noted as being second only to the Ultramarines in Codex-adherence. They have a slight specialisation regarding cityfighting, but in every respect they're the epitome of a codex Chapter.

All the Chapters in the Ultramarine book are, to a greater or lesser extent, Codex-adherent Chapters. Some might disregard certain sections, but they aren't divergent enough to warrant their own codex like the Templars or Wolves (no, I don't think either of the Angels really need a codex either).

[khurdur]

my opinion is that chaos doesn't suck, they are I think in about the middle ground at the moment compared to the current state of 40k, the new loyalists have better books(GK, SW, BA) but we are on par with nids, BT, and better than orks and DA...

 

Black templars have been updated and can used the new stormshields, cyclone missile launchers and suchlike, making them pretty good.

 

Nids are a bit like us, they are ok, but have some weaknesses compared to the newer books.

 

Orks are very limited, you simply take as many orks as you can in transports, as will simply lose if the enemy fields more than about 8 antitank shots...

 

And chaos...well we are limited in options, but if we play the classic dual DPs, plague marines/zerkers and oblits, we are solid. What chaos lacks is suppresion fire...all loyalist chapters have easy, cheap access to autocannon, missile launchers and lascannons, while our shooting over 24" is limited to the 6 obliterators we take, leaving us outgunned, therefore we just rush for close combat. And when someone both outshoots us and outfights us in cc, like the space wolvesor GK, we fall over and die

[minigun762]

I'm going to go ahead and kill off this topic because 1) the focus of the topic seems to be on non-Chaos and/or non-power armor based armies, neither of which are relevant to this area and 2) we already have a fine collection of topics discussing the "blandness" of the current Chaos codex and what we would lke to see done in the future.