Missile devastators or Predators?

[Israfel]

Hello Brethern,

 

I realize that there is no clear answer to the question I’m asking and it also comes down to personal taste a little.

 

First the background: My gaming environment is fairly competitive with almost all of the armies being represented. But we don’t see much of the (very) boring Razorspam lists which seem to dominate the tournament scene. Then again everyone brings their best and I would dare say we have very good generals around. Also we play the game with decent terrain 25-40% of the table is always covered with good and varied (GW manufactured) terrain.

 

I’m a big BA fan and has always been atracted to the angels on wings of fire descending from the skies to protect human kind concept. Our codex therefore made me very happy by giving us angelic models, viable JP troops and a gunship :pirate:

 

I used to play a hybrid list in the old days with lots of tacticals rhinos with JP DC (and sometimes VAS) as my assault element. But now I’m very fond of my jumpers and I’m trying to stay away from MSU Rbacks. My usual lists would have a core of:

1 JP Librarian (Shield+Unleash Rage)

2 squads of RAS with 2 MG and a PF

Sanguinary guard with 2xIP and PF

2 Sanguinary priests with JP

AB squadron with 3 MM

On top of this skeleton I add Predators with AC+LC as much as the points allow me to (a min of two for 1500 pts games)

 

Here is my conundrum:

Is it a better idea to switch to Missile devastators instead of the predators?

 

Pros for Devs:

- Very Hard to suppress

- Lots of AP3 shots and possibility of firing frags

- 8 STR very important for insta-kills

- Hard to remove when a SP tags along

- All of the enemy anti-tank will be more or less wasted as my army composition will be tank free.

Cons for Devs:

- Not guaranteed to get to a good firing position in Night fight scenarios (I think this is the biggy, that’s 1/3 of the games!)

- Susceptible to close combat

- When the rest of the army deep strikes they are left alone on the field to endure of the enemy shooting.

- Very high chance to be ineffective if they are forced to be placed in reserve.

 

Pros for Preds:

- Mobile while shooting

- May use it’s full potential when it comes from reserves.

- 2 AP2 STR 9 shots

- May used to contest objectives/tank shock at the later stages of the game.

- (not ideal but) May be used as mobile cover for the jumpers if needed.

- Immune to small arms fire

Cons for Preds:

- Easily (compared to devs) suppressed (this is the biggy the preds)

- 2 AP 4 STR 7 shots

- May generate cover to targets as the sponsons are positioned low.

 

Price tag wise the devs come up a little more pricey because of the inlusion of the SP. 3 units + SP for 440pts while the preds are 405pts. I think this difference is more or less negligable :tu:

 

So what is your take, which one do you prefer and why?

[JamesI]

I prefer the Devs.

 

Unless the list is already mech heavy, I'd rather have the bodies than the slight mobility advantage of the pred.

[Volcatus]

I prefer the Devs.

 

Unless the list is already mech heavy, I'd rather have the bodies than the slight mobility advantage of the pred.

 

This.

 

I play lists very similar to the one you outline, Israfel. And I find the Devs are the most reliable units in my army. So much so that I run 3 squads at all points levels (1500-2500). Turn after turn they missile away, and as James points out, in a list that uses no other mech, Preds often find themselves suppressed. All that enemy AT has to go somewhere.

[skrikspya]

For your list I'd take devastators. Can wreck enough havoc without being easy to shoot out. Two preds would be kind of lonely vs the amount of melta/lasweapons out there. But I'd consider rifledreads aswell, I love them. Never fails me, pump out a lot of shots and can kill most, albeit poor vs pure tanks.

[AbusePuppy]

"Blood Hammer" is the common name of the jump infantry + Devastator support army, and I would definitely recommend it. Run 2-3 squads (depending on points) and take a naked Priest to hang with them and you'll find them very difficult for most armies to get rid of. It can give you some problems with deployment at times (as you don't want to start them on the board when the rest of your army is DSing usually), but the compromise is usually well worth it.

[Deschenus Maximus]

Defnitely go with Devs in your list.

[Israfel]

It can give you some problems with deployment at times (as you don't want to start them on the board when the rest of your army is DSing usually), but the compromise is usually well worth it.

 

This is the main reason I'm reluctant to trade the preds with devastators.

 

In missions where you have to/choose to leave your heavy support in reserve, the devastators are usually in big trouble 1) They may not shoot the turn they arrive and 2) even with running there is no guarantee that you may get to a safe position which also provides good firing arcs. Being immobile the devastators lose a lot of their effectiveness when they do not have good firing arcs.

 

The preds on the other hand can fire to max effectiveness when they arrive on the board.

 

I do see the merits of having more bodies on the ground and negating enemy AT weapons, though. I guess I should give them a try.

[Smendrik]

Than why not take a razorback for them?

You can get them in position the turn they arrive and you have additional firepower the turn they arrive.

Even if you don't let them in reserve you have one or two TL LC or AC more on the field and might even get characters like Mephiston mobile..

[Morollan]

Definitely prefer Dev's to Pred's. In my game last week I formed a firebase of a dev sqaud in some ruins with two tac squads nearby and a priest. Very hard to shift and able to fire every turn with pretty good results (wrecked a few Eldar tanks and then fragged the survivors).

[SamaNagol]

Fast Predators are just too good in a Mech list. You can move 6 and still put out 4 strong Anti-Armour shots a turn.

 

And with regards to the S8 instant kill on things like Oblits and Paladins, good luck getting through their 2+ armour. Lascannons will do that automatically though.

 

Itis definitely a matter of taste, and no one answer is right for all eventualities. But the AutoLas Pred is one of our strongest choices in the book.

[PanzerSmurf]

I would go for the devastators. You've indicated that your list is otherwise armourvalue-free. If you go for the preds, they will be the only targets for the opponents antitank, and AV12 will only get you so far. The devastators can hunker in cover, and they have a lot more wounds then the preds do... My 0.02€.

[Leonaides]

one other thing- devs dont need a good fire arc- they need the right arc. To exaggerate- if yr devs have got 75%vis of the battlefield, but cant cover the enemies approach to and the objective, they're in the wrong place. A narrow fire-arc that the enemy absolutely has to cross is just as good.

[SamaNagol]

I would go for the devastators. You've indicated that your list is otherwise armourvalue-free. If you go for the preds, they will be the only targets for the opponents antitank, and AV12 will only get you so far. The devastators can hunker in cover, and they have a lot more wounds then the preds do... My 0.02€.

 

AV13*

 

And Predators are also able to benefit from cover.

[AbusePuppy]

Devs will sometimes have problems getting them to exactly where you want them to be, but in an all-infantry list, the Predators are going to eat a lot of AT shooting and probably end up not getting to do a lot. AV13 is great, but they aren't AV13 all around- unless you put them in the corner, AV11 will be exposed relatively often, and due to the placement of the side sponsons it will be difficult to get cover for them while still being able to fire all your guns.

[Quillen]

Back in the day I always used Dev squads. Then when I went to tourniments I swiched to preditors. They were more mobile and you had way more advantages with them. I also played SpaceWolves thou, and they die to incoming fire in droves. And that is a heavy weapon dieing every failed save. Fail = pain. With your devs you can add 6 throw away bodies and they can be beefed all up. So it's a win right there.

 

In an all mech list with a ton of Dreads and transports I would go with Preds. If nothing else it forces them to split fire. I have a list I made for hard boys that has a LRC(Wolf Guard Taxi), 2 Dreads, and 3 Preditors. Add in the 3 Rhinos and you see a wall of armor coming at you. If they focus on the LRC the Rhinos, Dreads, and Preds win the day. If they spread the fire around my Deathstar makes it to thier lines. It's over whelming with armor. A steel sledge hammer. And pred with is list rock.

 

I also have a list with TWC and bikes. I will not use preds with it as they would get rolled early own. Long Fangs will take hits but be able to throw out some hate too. So with that list I would go with Long Fangs. They will have a better chance to get the job done where the tanks will probly just sit and suffer, or be forced to find cover and then get off maybe one shot (all for yours as they are fast).

 

So it truely depends on a bunch of different things. Your list being a big one.