My feeble attempts at discussing the next Chaos Codex at GD

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

I was under the impression that WAAC stood for "Win At All Cost"? Which, when playing with CSM, you really aren't trying to.

 

This is apt. I consider any list I field that generates a draw to be as WAAC as I can get with the current Codex. Actually winning usually requires profound bad luck on the part of my opponent and some bartering of the souls of other players in my LGS (without their knowledge or consent) to generate decent luck for myself. :angry:

[Warsmith Aznable]

Also quite smart marketing idea from GW, as it's easier for people to collect small elite armies due to the reduced cost.

 

It's a great idea from GW, as it's easier for them to put 5 multi-purpose Marine models in a box and sell it for what they used to charge for a box 10 dedicated models, is what it is.

[Brother Ambroz]

I was randomly clicking around 40K blogs and I came across a rumour that the new Chaos Legions codex is going to have a theme of an "Elite Army" ala Grey Knights.

 

Thought that this was pretty interesting, I think it could fit the fluff nicely based on 10,000 year old veterans fighting the long war.

 

Also quite smart marketing idea from GW, as it's easier for people to collect small elite armies due to the reduced cost.

 

Take with your usual grain of salt, and sorry can't remember the blog name :D

 

I agree it sounds amazing but as with the entire legion dex, I'll believe it when I see it. I'd be happy with just one or two squads to represent my HH veterans and allow the rest to be new recruits.

[Excessus]

I agree it sounds amazing but as with the entire legion dex, I'll believe it when I see it. I'd be happy with just one or two squads to represent my HH veterans and allow the rest to be new recruits.

Newer you mean, hehe

 

A Legionnaire can be older than Dante and still be considered a newbie in the legions... :tu:

[Sangneur]

I agree it sounds amazing but as with the entire legion dex, I'll believe it when I see it. I'd be happy with just one or two squads to represent my HH veterans and allow the rest to be new recruits.

Newer you mean, hehe

 

A Legionnaire can be older than Dante and still be considered a newbie in the legions... :cuss

 

I know Honsou was like 3000 years old, and gets rebuked by his warsmith who says "Shut up, new guy", though not in so many words.

 

Also, Warseer's Ghost21 claims that the new book is being written by Mat Ward, though I don't know how often he is correct, he's a large source of rumours. Please some one tell me he's out of his mind!

[TheDarkApostle]

When asked by firestorm (who made this thread) Ward evidently said he wouldn't be working on the Chaos codex.

 

TDA

[Lungboy]

Ghost is as reliable as asking a random bloke on the street.

[Excessus]

I was sitting at my desk converting some minis when a thought occured...wouldn't it be cool if we could have autocannon razorbacks? :)

[Kristoff]

I was sitting at my desk converting some minis when a thought occured...wouldn't it be cool if we could have autocannon razorbacks? ;)

 

No, it would be cool if we had Reaper Cannon Razorbacks!

[Sangneur]

When asked by firestorm (who made this thread) Ward evidently said he wouldn't be working on the Chaos codex.

 

TDA

 

Ghost is as reliable as asking a random bloke on the street.

 

Yes, I know but I needed to hear other people say that, I was suffering a panic attack. :o

 

I haven't paid any of his rumours heed, so I don't know if he's ever been right, but everyone seems to take his word as gospel on warseer, where as normally people will challenge moderately reliable folks.

[the jeske]

why ? the fluff cant get anyworse then it is right now with the happy chaos family etc . so no lose here and rules will at least get at least more numerous . A win win situation for chaos .

[sig666]

why ? the fluff cant get anyworse then it is right now with the happy chaos family etc .

Allow me to decline your kindly sharing of optimism at this point.

[Lungboy]

I haven't paid any of his rumours heed, so I don't know if he's ever been right, but everyone seems to take his word as gospel on warseer, where as normally people will challenge moderately reliable folks.

 

He has been right on occasion, but only in the most general of ways. Some things that he has been "sure" about have been flat out wrong. He seems to have convinced a few people that he sees things so early in their design cycle that if changes are made later then he would have no knowledge, which is a great way of covering up for fabricating nonsense. There are a few people worth trusting on Warseer (where BOLS seem to take their rumours from without crediting the correct people): Harry, Hastings, BramGaunt are usually all close to spot on. Anybody else I won't believe until one of these three say they are correct.

[the jeske]

no one who actualy knows how the dex is going to look like or how it looks like will ever give you a full list because A if he works for GW [translations] he will at best lose his job B if he is getting leaks from someone the person may end up having problems [which means no news in the future]. The only time when you can be sure of rules/costs is when it is a controled [or not] GW leak , but to know that something is that you have to know too work for GW [why would you care] or know people who work for GW[and I mean like Desing studio level , not shops managers] .

 

But outright lieing is of course hard[when it is about the whole dex of course] that is why the realy important thing are impresions . If a dude says they "get flying land raiders" it doesnt mean that BA realy were to get av14 skimers . this just means that the leaking dude does a fusion of deep striking LR rule + SR arment .

 

Mega HQ monolith ends up as a doom arc etc.

 

what one can be sure about w40k dex this days is that all the new ones get 2 big models offten based around the same kit[that may never end up being actualy made like the tyranofex/tervigon one] , tons of specials , FoC manipulations , tons of extra rules[even if w40k was suppose to be streamlined in the 5th] for units and downgrade to force them to buy more models[on top of the usual make stuff that sucked good so all those who have armies still have to buy those units etc].

[Chaos_Lord888]

I started w40k like in June, and immediatly decided to go Chaos. After that, one of my friend began GK. I got the chance to look at his codex... and then I began crying and swearing againts Mister Ward :mellow:

No seriously, when I came to know better the other codexes, it was easy for me to recognize that ours need an update like the necrons one did. I seriously hope to see an improvement in the options, maybe a return to the Lost and the Damned (even thought I wasn't a player then, I had the chance to read on it and found it interesting). I also hope the CSM will have stats and options more in line with their fluff, by which I mean:

 

-Marines with Higher stats and cost than their loyalist counterpart

Why : CSM are supposed to have all the genetics advantages of the Loyalist, plus the boons and gifts of Chaos. After all, all you have to do is to look at one of them to see they're kinda.... upgraded in a twisted and evil way.

 

-More Unique Wargear and options

Why : In the current codex it is say CSM have regular Marines weaponry plus that of the Dark Mechanicus and some exotic tools made from the Dark Knowledge of the Warp. Yet, if you look at the armory of the codex, most of the weapons

there are like that of the other chapters (even weaker since they don't have storm bolters IMO). Maybe give them something like a Warpcannon (evil version of the psycannon) and other thing like that. I know they had weapons and

gifts like that in the Lost and the Damned

 

-Terminators with at least stubborn or fearless or an option like that

Why : Because when you use them againts DA DeathWing or GK, you look ridiculous. And because I'd like to run Abaddon with them withouth havbing him loose his fearless SR.

 

-Bring back Khorne to his glory

Why : Because... BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!!

No seriously, I think Slaanesh and Nurgle are to much favored in the present codex, and to be honest, I alway considered Khorne the coolest Chaos God, even thought he's the most cliche of them, and I'd like to see Khorne-oriented

army to be more easily competitive.

 

-See some figures models based on the Dawn of War series

Why : Because I consider they did an amazing job.

[darth_giles]

It's a great idea from GW, as it's easier for them to put 5 multi-purpose Marine models in a box and sell it for what they used to charge for a box 10 dedicated models, is what it is.

Dunno, I don't mind the extra bitz. Some armies like the 'Crons never had much for the bitz keg so you ended up having difficulty scratch- building anything.

 

 

-More Unique Wargear and options

Why : In the current codex it is say CSM have regular Marines weaponry plus that of the Dark Mechanicus and some exotic tools made from the Dark Knowledge of the Warp. Yet, if you look at the armory of the codex, most of the weapons

there are like that of the other chapters (even weaker since they don't have storm bolters IMO). Maybe give them something like a Warpcannon (evil version of the psycannon) and other thing like that. I know they had weapons and

gifts like that in the Lost and the Damned

True, but some of them didn't make too much sense. Plague Zombies being specifically Nurgloid, for example. You couldn't run them in a Tzeentch list (or really any but a Nurgle one) without losing major theme points in the later 3rd Edition RTTs. I also never understood how Tzeentch forces are expected to be "leaping."

[TheDarkApostle]

It's a great idea from GW, as it's easier for them to put 5 multi-purpose Marine models in a box and sell it for what they used to charge for a box 10 dedicated models, is what it is.

Dunno, I don't mind the extra bitz. Some armies like the 'Crons never had much for the bitz keg so you ended up having difficulty scratch- building anything.

 

 

-More Unique Wargear and options

Why : In the current codex it is say CSM have regular Marines weaponry plus that of the Dark Mechanicus and some exotic tools made from the Dark Knowledge of the Warp. Yet, if you look at the armory of the codex, most of the weapons

there are like that of the other chapters (even weaker since they don't have storm bolters IMO). Maybe give them something like a Warpcannon (evil version of the psycannon) and other thing like that. I know they had weapons and

gifts like that in the Lost and the Damned

True, but some of them didn't make too much sense. Plague Zombies being specifically Nurgloid, for example. You couldn't run them in a Tzeentch list (or really any but a Nurgle one) without losing major theme points in the later 3rd Edition RTTs. I also never understood how Tzeentch forces are expected to be "leaping."

"Leaping", or "gliding", or generally being jump troops have been a major Tzeentchian theme since forever pretty much. Also Tzeentch is the God of birds is he not? ;) Have them sprout a pair of semi-good wings that let them glide or "leap".

 

TDA

[Zambro]

@ the original poster:

 

(Bear with me, my first post here so haven't quite grasped how to quote, anyway...)

 

Its all well and good speculating about Phil Kelly writing the Chaos Codex. But from many other sources and other speculation, i get the distinct impression he is writing the Eldar Codex. Which has been hinted as a possibly release next year. Now, to me, it doesn't matter how dedicated you are, there is no way you can produce two good codexs in a year.

 

What your saying is all well and good, it seems like the obvious reaction when asked about something your not writing, look around for the person who is writing it. But if this is the case, whats going on with the Eldar Codex?

 

Just putting that out there.

[Eetion]

First gthings first... congratulations on getting some info... nicelyplayed sir.

 

 

Secondly....

 

In my conversations with both Jervis and Matt, I started off saying that I’d like to see Special Characters that add army wide abilities, which got very strong nods of understanding from both of them. The problem I immediately hit was that they both pretty much said that they’re not going to be involved with the development of Chaos Marines; Jervis said that he would pass on my comments thought (whether he does is another thing!).

 

 

 

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooo ..... What possessed you!?! I dont want to have to get a Special Character to represent infiltrate to play Alpha Legion, or frank the dark lord of evilness to get relentless.

Whenever I game an oppponent not knowing what they take its much more interesting. You play Raven Guard? So that will be Shrike then will it?

Siloly annoying aspect.

[Brother Ambroz]

Agreed Eetion. SCs representing various legions/chapters is something I already commented on earlier but I think that it's one of the worst ideas GW has ever come up with. The whole point of SCs is special characters, not characters you bring to every game to represent your chosen faction. I loved the idea that you could create your own lord with his own unique wargear/background. SCs with those rules just ruin that.

[firestorm40k]

Wow, I just LOVE clarifying a post I made, three months after I originally wrote it! ;) :P <_<

 

Its all well and good speculating about Phil Kelly writing the Chaos Codex. But from many other sources and other speculation, i get the distinct impression he is writing the Eldar Codex. Which has been hinted as a possibly release next year. Now, to me, it doesn't matter how dedicated you are, there is no way you can produce two good codexs in a year.

 

What your saying is all well and good, it seems like the obvious reaction when asked about something your not writing, look around for the person who is writing it. But if this is the case, whats going on with the Eldar Codex?

 

Just putting that out there.

I based this on the fact that a) Mat Evans basically said he WAS NOT WORKING ON IT (just to make that clear), and that :) he was looking around, suggesting that there was someone else I should be looking to speak to. I had already spoken to Jervis, the only other member of the design team there was Mr Kelly, who was not at the designers area but off plugging Dreadfleet.

 

Now, I took that at the time to mean that Mr Ward's body language suggested I should have been talking to Mr Kelly.

 

However, as more recent rumours suggest that Mr Ward IS in fact writing the Chaos 'dex :( part of me is wondering if his reaction was discomfort - "I'm not actually allowed to talk about this, so who can I fob this off on?"

 

 

I sincerely hope I'm wrong... <_<

 

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooo ..... What possessed you!?! I dont want to have to get a Special Character to represent infiltrate to play Alpha Legion, or frank the dark lord of evilness to get relentless.

Whenever I game an oppponent not knowing what they take its much more interesting. You play Raven Guard? So that will be Shrike then will it?

Siloly annoying aspect.

Agreed Eetion. SCs representing various legions/chapters is something I already commented on earlier but I think that it's one of the worst ideas GW has ever come up with. The whole point of SCs is special characters, not characters you bring to every game to represent your chosen faction. I loved the idea that you could create your own lord with his own unique wargear/background. SCs with those rules just ruin that.

 

:D

 

:confused:

 

It never ceases to amuse me how people jump on this as though it's a FACT and WILL DEFINTELY BE IN THE CHAOS DEX. (Note - it probably won't be).

 

I merely mentioned it because it is a MECHANISM, which Chaos Marines currently don't have access to, that can possibly bring more flavour, variation and character to an army; I believe that this is how it was INTENDED in C:SM, though you are entitled to your opinions as to its effectiveness. I brought it up because I was trying to get at the sort of things other Codices have which the CHaos one doesn't and Chaos needs.

 

IS that clear now?

 

 

Oh, and by the way, I don't play Raven Guard, but I know someone who DOES run Raven Guard, yes - with Shrike, and it is an absolutely bad-a** army to play against - it hits hard, but (more importantly imho) it absolutely fits the background and theme of a Raven Guard force.

 

I also know a Marine player who runs a very nasty and effective (almost) purely scout army, who sometimes uses a 'counts-as' Khan as the captiain - his outflanking abilities (and damn nasty sword!) fits with the theme and strategic ethos of this player's army.

 

So the C:SM characters are not perfect as a whole, but used apprpriately I think they can be fun and useful.

 

And at the end of the day, how many units/characters in the Chaos Codex can we say that about? Probably not even half as many in each other Codex...

[Son of Rawl]

I wouldn't actually mind Ward writing the codex too be honest, his Grey Knight (baring Fluff) and Necron codex's are extremely fun to play and fight against.

 

THis would be the first time I would actually like the 'We are the Best' approach for the fluff as the loyalists have had their turns, so now it is ours :jaw:

[darth_giles]

"Leaping", or "gliding", or generally being jump troops have been a major Tzeentchian theme since forever pretty much. Also Tzeentch is the God of birds is he not? :D Have them sprout a pair of semi-good wings that let them glide or "leap".

The thing is, "Leaping" meant "moves as cavalry." Which back in the day (and once again in one of 5th Edition's more annoying nerfs) meant you move six inches per turn but charge twelve. Jump packers moved the same way they do now.

 

Anyway, there's a reason why nobody uses daemonic cavalry, the IG horse boys, boarboyz, and the few other cavalry/beast choices. Its because they're damn slow compared to a real jump packer.

 

Agreed Eetion. SCs representing various legions/chapters is something I already commented on earlier but I think that it's one of the worst ideas GW has ever come up with. The whole point of SCs is special characters, not characters you bring to every game to represent your chosen faction. I loved the idea that you could create your own lord with his own unique wargear/background. SCs with those rules just ruin that.

Ironically, having to use special characters is becoming more of a standard in the gaming industry. Look at PP and Malifaux, and a few of the other new games; you can only have named special characters and there's no way to have your own characters. No way, no how.

 

Although the last time I mentioned how War Machine had no rules for a generic HQ character that would allow me to have some degree of personalization and storytelling aspect at the LGS, one of the guys went off on a rant about how you can't make your own Magic the Gathering cards. Never mind that the closest parallel you could find in Magic would be a scenario where you had to play with a pre-packaged deck and were prohibited from changing the card list.

 

In an RPG terms, its like d6- era Star Wars where you generated characters by photocopying character templates from the back of the book. All first mates are wookiees, all pirate captains are human females with a bionic right arm, and the interpreter droid is always a 3PO unit. The backgrounds and everything were already written and ready to go, and there was no actual chapter on character generation.

[the jeske]

What possessed you!?! I dont want to have to get a Special Character to represent infiltrate to play Alpha Legion, or frank the dark lord of evilness to get relentless.

Whenever I game an oppponent not knowing what they take its much more interesting. You play Raven Guard? So that will be Shrike then will it?

Siloly annoying aspect.

so its better the way we have no , no realy viable HQ specials , no squad or tank upgrades . and thanks to that all armies look like carbon copies of each other and those that are "different" have still identical game play ?

 

Unless the dex we will have ends up like the one JJ made , it is going to be better. And as fluff goes , after thorpe there is no such thing as worse fluff anymore.

[Brother Ambroz]

It never ceases to amuse me how people jump on this as though it's a FACT and WILL DEFINTELY BE IN THE CHAOS DEX. (Note - it probably won't be).

 

I merely mentioned it because it is a MECHANISM, which Chaos Marines currently don't have access to, that can possibly bring more flavour, variation and character to an army; I believe that this is how it was INTENDED in C:SM, though you are entitled to your opinions as to its effectiveness. I brought it up because I was trying to get at the sort of things other Codices have which the CHaos one doesn't and Chaos needs.

 

IS that clear now?

 

 

Oh, and by the way, I don't play Raven Guard, but I know someone who DOES run Raven Guard, yes - with Shrike, and it is an absolutely bad-a** army to play against - it hits hard, but (more importantly imho) it absolutely fits the background and theme of a Raven Guard force.

 

I also know a Marine player who runs a very nasty and effective (almost) purely scout army, who sometimes uses a 'counts-as' Khan as the captiain - his outflanking abilities (and damn nasty sword!) fits with the theme and strategic ethos of this player's army.

 

So the C:SM characters are not perfect as a whole, but used apprpriately I think they can be fun and useful.

 

And at the end of the day, how many units/characters in the Chaos Codex can we say that about? Probably not even half as many in each other Codex...

 

Where did anyone even mention that we were taking it as fact? It's just a rumor and nothing more.

 

@ Darth Giles and Firestorm- Yes that may be the way wargames are going nowadays but until now 40k has never been reliant on SCs and alot of people object/don't agree with it. That's all I'm saying.