My feeble attempts at discussing the next Chaos Codex at GD

[Kristoff]

:facepalm: :P I NEVER said that wasn't their current pattern nor that they would change it. Please put that in your understanding. I am simply saying that is NOT the ONLY (as in no other way that is possible) to get this done. And we know that is true because they have done this in the past. We have also seen that certain plain HQs CAN turn either an Elite or Fast Attack into Troops, even as recently as Dark Eldar. True, it is uncommon, and they aren't always worth it, but it IS possible.

 

Again, I don't really EXPECT them to change their pattern any time soon to something they have used in previous editions or even a new version that doesn't use anything they've done before. Just don't deny the past or the present as not existent.

 

Doesn't our most reliable rumour have Phil Kelly writing the Chaos Codex? If he did it with the Dark Eldar... Y'never know.

 

I'm sorry if I'm taking a cynical bent, but I tend to expect the worst, it provides for less disappointment.

[Rain]

A Phil Kelly written Legions codex would make me a very happy heretic. I am very much on the same page as him as far as fluff and army design is concerned, and he has already done the impossible by resurrecting Dark Eldar.

[AekoldHelbrass]

Ok, ghost21 said this: "oh one last thing its ward". Wasn't he the same guy who said that there are 3 Chaos codexes planned? May be Ward will work on traitor chapter's WD codex or something?

 

I am interested in another thing... According to last timeline rumours new Chaos will not come out in 2012. What do you think about that?

[darth_giles]

Ok, ghost21 said this: "oh one last thing its ward". Wasn't he the same guy who said that there are 3 Chaos codexes planned? May be Ward will work on traitor chapter's WD codex or something?

 

I am interested in another thing... According to last timeline rumours new Chaos will not come out in 2012. What do you think about that?

Time to put the Word Bearers on the shelf and buy some 'Crons?

[AekoldHelbrass]

Time to put the Word Bearers on the shelf and buy some 'Crons?

If only we could manipulate GW somehow... Like making a boycott "I will not buy anything from current CSM miniatures range until new Codex will be released", and use miniatures from FB or Space Wolves if need some more new squads... Wow, that already sounds cool, I'm on. Cannot field my 45 metal Raptors properly any way... Will it work? Have something similar ever worked?

[Pavement Artist]

I'm going to say probably not. It'd need to be a hell of a lot of us boycotting the product for it to make an impact on GW. You have to remember that although we are quite vocal as a group, we are mostly a minority and we're also fighting an uphill battle against all the people who are just starting out with the hobby.

 

In the most brutal terms- we aren't the priority for GW. Hobbyists who have been involved with the game systems for years are probably comfortable with their collections to the extent that their purchases run to one or two boxes sporadically. I certainly know my purchases have dropped off in the past years- not out of lack of love for the hobby, just that i've had to set a limit on how many armies i'm going to collect.

Consider a new starter- chances are they're going to walk out of the store with a starter box, codex/army book, additional box sets to expand the army as well as your hobby material. That's a lot of money being parted with right there, it just makes sense that as a company, GW want's to stimulate fresh interest in the hobby.

 

On a positive note- Army book releases should be looked at in terms of what's profitable for the company. With chaos we are looking at more marines. Someone with the business acumen of a moistened beer mat, can see that marines sell phenomenally. I'd imagine chaos can't be too far away, perhaps towards the back end of next year. With the change in codices, i can see the book being something special.

[darth_giles]

Time to put the Word Bearers on the shelf and buy some 'Crons?

If only we could manipulate GW somehow... Like making a boycott "I will not buy anything from current CSM miniatures range until new Codex will be released", and use miniatures from FB or Space Wolves if need some more new squads... Wow, that already sounds cool, I'm on. Cannot field my 45 metal Raptors properly any way... Will it work? Have something similar ever worked?

I was thinking something more along the lines of the fact that none of the 'Cron fluff has been that badly mangled, and the rules have been seriously improved far beyond what most people were expecting. Unless of course you're one of the folks who believed that Necron Lords were just as mindless as the rest of their forces, and that the C'tan were the only things in the list capable of actual thought. And most of the models are pretty good; I don't like the oddball head crests on some choices like Lychguard and Overlords, but those are easy to clip off.

 

The only issue I have with them is the lack of green rods, and again that's easily fixed with clippers, a file, and maybe a little drilling and pinning.

[AekoldHelbrass]

In the most brutal terms- we aren't the priority for GW. Hobbyists who have been involved with the game systems for years are probably comfortable with their collections to the extent that their purchases run to one or two boxes sporadically.

I can't fully agree. It really depends on the quality of codex. I'll put FB as example. When you're looking at Daemons - well, they are pretty dull, only 2 interesting Lords/Heroes choices, nothing interesting in Core, 1 interesting Special and 1 interesting Rare. That's it. And when you're looking at Warriors of Chaos (my favourite obviously) - wow I want full armoured warriors army. Ok, now I have 100 of them. Now I want full marauders army! Ok, now I have 120 of them, now I need some cavalry! Ok, 30 knights is enough for now, trollllls, I want trolls, at least 20 of them... Ok, now it is time to finish my army. Just after 2 hellcannons and 2 warshrines... Yea, and 40 chosen... oh, and those 5 lords/heroes.... and may be 2 shagoths, yes, and that's all, already no room to store this army at home... oh, 2 squads of forsaken and that's it, yes. or maybe....

You got the picture. That armybook is interesting, so interesting you want to try all of those choices, and you're ending up with single armybook but 4-5 armies. And that's only about Warriors, I am already looking at Beastmen, but that's just so unreasonable considering how little time I really have... And now try to guess who is author of Daemons and who is author of Warriors and Beastmen, and what fate will await Legions codex in case if ghost21 is right.

[the jeske]

I can't fully agree.

If you played for a long time you would have all those you listed already . the only thing old players realy buy is stuff that is totaly new[barrges of all sorts] or when arment is totaly changed for armies [immortals with teslas]. Old players never were and never will be the focus of GW . They are a models first company[nothing bad about it] , a new player will buy a whole army from scratch an old player will ask around if someone has left over models or armies for sell[GW hates secondery market with a passion] or check if he doesnt have any from time past.

 

 

as Kraine said only thing we can hope for is that GW makes a good dex with lots of viable options [that is if we want to keep playing the same army, which in case of old player offten is the case] . They can of course drop the ball . The codex may not have the build you always liked [lets say someone didnt care about legions , but liked to play with different infiltration builds . the AL , the DG one , the infiltrating demon bomb you could make with WB , or an infiltrating gunline etc. he is a sad panda with gav dex] or may be just plain bad/boring . then it is a problem , from GW perspective it isnt . there still will be new players buying chaos [and droping and as chaos isnt liked , the models wont generated a big secondery market] , but GW is more focused on the now . the new DE , the new BA , the new DE , they dont care if an edition kills of an army for a year or two just because they decided to change the rules[remember how IG was before the crudd dex ? least played army] or that people maybe stuck with a dex for 10 years[DE, necrons , orcs] . It is of course not bad per se , if GW actualy made awesome dex each time . If every dex was full of different options and builds and ways to play people who play the army because they "like" the faction still would , problem is GW doesnt always make dex like this . they also makes dex that sucks hard and then if your a faction loyalist [GW dislikes that too , they want you to switch armies in WFB/W40k so you can keep being "happy" and make them happy with buying new stuff] it is years before you see something new . This are not the chambers or H-man times , when there were lists in IA [oddly enough it was because the JJ dex realy realy was a ball drop for GW. it was like nids gav dex and old ogers combined in to one. but without any nice models] , the only time they will post "new" army lists is when they thing that old army lists will create a problem for the lists they have new codex [so would generated lower sales].

 

GW worked like this since for ever [or rather since the 90s which I can still remember] , I doubt they will ever change[monopolists generaly dont , unless they fall] . The real problem is not the fact that there is not enough balance or not enough power . If your a casual player[and I think a lot of are] you dont care if a 2500 leafblower with inq+mystics has an over 80% win ratio against all other armies . Or that it is mathematicly impossible to down a eldar circus in 4th ed. The problem is that when you and your m8 started no one told you that your army dex has 8 builds + and his has 1. that is the real problem with GW. not the codex creep or new dex being OP[because they arent . honest . realy they arent] , its the fact that at the time your going through building build 3 out of your dex your friend is bored because he has no options and no different ways to play and the idea of starting a new army [and who is going to tell him if a dex is one build or not ? me ? is he going to believe me or some other guy from the internetz more then people he knows face to face. and who are interested in selling stuff] gives him the creeps .

[AekoldHelbrass]

Khorne damned, Jeske, who is your patron God? You almost convinced me to kill myself, that's good that you wrote only about hobby business but not about life in general.

[the jeske]

The god of over the top , at least in this edition . Or maybe am a conglomerate of eastern writers paid by PP to do black PR ? du du Du du Du .