Smoke and Running

[Elric the Silvercoat]

I was wondering with an Ironclad Dreadnought that if I pop smoke in the movement phase and then Run during the shooting phase that if he still gets the cover save? Also can he Run if he pops smoke?

[Something Wycked]

Both running and using smoke launchers are actions that are taken instead of firing a weapon in the shooting phase. I'm fairly certain that these actions cannot be performed simultaneously.

[dswanick]

Yes, if the Dread pops smoke it may run. And yes, a Dread that popped smoke and ran gets the cover save.

[Elric the Silvercoat]

Need more people because right now its 50/50.

[dswanick]

Need more people because right now its 50/50.

Well, you could check the rulebook. :)

But here are the relevant bits:

Once per game, after completing its move, a vehicle with smoke launchers can trigger them.

 

The vehicle may not fire any of its weapons in the same turn as it used its smoke launchers, but will count as obscured in the next enemy Shooting phase, receiving a 4+ cover save.

 

Note that a vehicle may still use smoke launchers even if its crew are shaken or stunned.

The first quoted line shows that popping smoke is an action which you take in the Movement phase.

The second line shows that this action will prevent weapons fire, and that it will obscure the vehicle in the opponent's next shooting phase.

The third line shows that a vehicle can trigger its smoke even if it is prevented from shooting, thus it's not contingent on your vehicles ability to shoot.

Walkers can move and fire all of their weapons, just like a stationary vehicle.

Alternatively, they can choose to run like infantry, and this prevents them from firing and assaulting that turn, as normal (though they can still trigger their smoke launchers, if they have any).

The second quoted line here shows that a Walker can run, just like infantry. Running prevents shooting, but it's not contingent on your ability to shoot(models without ranged weapons or without even a BS can still run).

The second line also specifically states that you may use your smoke launchers even if you ran.

So no need for a poll, the BRB is very clear on this. :tu:

[Elric the Silvercoat]

Need more people because right now its 50/50.

Well, you could check the rulebook. :)

But here are the relevant bits:

Once per game, after completing its move, a vehicle with smoke launchers can trigger them.

 

The vehicle may not fire any of its weapons in the same turn as it used its smoke launchers, but will count as obscured in the next enemy Shooting phase, receiving a 4+ cover save.

 

Note that a vehicle may still use smoke launchers even if its crew are shaken or stunned.

The first quoted line shows that popping smoke is an action which you take in the Movement phase.

The second line shows that this action will prevent weapons fire, and that it will obscure the vehicle in the opponent's next shooting phase.

The third line shows that a vehicle can trigger its smoke even if it is prevented from shooting, thus it's not contingent on your vehicles ability to shoot.

Walkers can move and fire all of their weapons, just like a stationary vehicle.

Alternatively, they can choose to run like infantry, and this prevents them from firing and assaulting that turn, as normal (though they can still trigger their smoke launchers, if they have any).

The second quoted line here shows that a Walker can run, just like infantry. Running prevents shooting, but it's not contingent on your ability to shoot(models without ranged weapons or without even a BS can still run).

The second line also specifically states that you may use your smoke launchers even if you ran.

So no need for a poll, the BRB is very clear on this. :tu:

Ok thank you for do all the work to help me with my question.

[Something Wycked]

:tu: I hate it when I shift the meanings of things in my head- smoke launchers prevent shooting, so obviously they must happen in the shooting phase. Thanks for clearing that up, dswanick!

[thade]

Yea, it's not really a "them vs us" thing here. <3 The rules make this one an easy one.

 

You can choose to Run in lieu of shooting in the rules.

 

You may choose to fire Smoke Launchers at the end of the Shooting Phase but you may not fire a weapon the turn you use Smoke.

 

There is an important distinction here: Running does "replace" Shooting; Smoke does not. However, Smoke can't be used if guns are fired. If you run, you don't fire any guns ;) so you're okay.

 

And it's not that weird either. When you set up a smoke screen, you're never dropping it at your feet...you're putting it out ahead of you. No reason you can't keep moving. In fact, it's tactically a very good idea (in terms of real-life and being shot at through a smoke screen).

[Dan VK]

;) I hate it when I shift the meanings of things in my head- smoke launchers prevent shooting, so obviously they must happen in the shooting phase. Thanks for clearing that up, dswanick!

It happened in the Shooting phase in the last edition. It took me a long time to get used to doing it in the Movement phase.

[thade]

There is some ambiguity about when the smoke launchers actually fire (it came up a lot back when we were wrangling over whether PotMS could fire though smoke); it happens when movement is complete and - because you can Run in the Shooting phase, Movement isn't always complete at the end of the Movement phase. Yet another example on the laundry list of reasons we could do with a glossary and unambiguous terminology in this game. <3

[dswanick]

There is some ambiguity about when the smoke launchers actually fire (it came up a lot back when we were wrangling over whether PotMS could fire though smoke); it happens when movement is complete and - because you can Run in the Shooting phase, Movement isn't always complete at the end of the Movement phase.

This was cleared up by BRB FAQ 1.4, thade.

Q: Can smoke launchers be used after a walker makes a

Run! or consolidation move? (p62)

A: No, they can only be used in the Movement phase.

[thade]

Interesting.

 

Far be it from me to nitpick, but that's not a terribly well-written FAQ answer. Can he use it after he Runs! or Consolidates? No. Can he still use it in a turn that either of these things happens? IE he uses Smoke at the end of the Movement phase then proceeds to run or charge and rout a unit?

 

That clears up nothing. :\

[Leonaides]

There is Movement and movement. Movement is what you do in the Movement phase, while movement can occur at other times (for example, due to tank-shocking, breaking/fall-back moves, etc). Its a very simple FAQ for a simple problem - Smoke Launchers do not allow you to shoot in the shooting phase after you use them (so they must be used prior to the shooting phase of the turn you use them or we'd be argueing about if they affected the next tun, rather than the one you use them in. Beyond that effect, they have no other effect in your own shooting phase.