Imperial combi-weapon/storm bolter

[Cpt_Reaper]

I have my Dark Angels Librarian in Terminator Armour equiped with a combi-plasma. As far as I know, combi-weapons are a bolter-plasma. -melta or -flamer. This is demonstrated by nearly every combi-weapon model.

However, the option that comes with the librarian (mine is metal) is clearly a storm bolter/plasma gun. My question is: Can the bolter half be considered a storm bolter or is it a bolter that looks like a storm bolter?

[Lucien Eilam]

It's configured like a storm bolter, but it's not a storm bolter. A storm bolter is essentially two bolters welded together. The Terminator Librarian's gun has one boltgun barrel, one plasma gun barrel. That's a perfectly normal combi-plasma - a boltgun that can be fired as a plasma gun once.

[Cpt_Reaper]

I guess it's a case of looks that are deceiving. Thanks for clearing that up.

[Frosty the Pyro]

with WYSIWYG, rules determine model, not the other way around.

 

 

A storm bolter is no more a bolter than a meltagun or missile launcher is a bolter, and is not a valid option for combi weapons.

[thade]

I've honestly never seen a storm bolter with a plasma attachment; what metal librarian is it? (Link it from the GW site if you could. <3) I'm willing to bet you're misinterpreting that piece and it is in fact a combi-plasma as they always come: with a normal boltgun. :)

[fivepointedstar]

If i remember correctly a combi-bolter is like a twin linked bolter where as a storm bolter auto gives you the assault 2.

So the trade off would be a 24 inch single shot with re-roll, or 2 12' double tap one re-roll.

 

* not sure if this rule still applies to current BRB

[Zincite]

I've honestly never seen a storm bolter with a plasma attachment; what metal librarian is it? (Link it from the GW site if you could. <3) I'm willing to bet you're misinterpreting that piece and it is in fact a combi-plasma as they always come: with a normal boltgun. ;)

There's only one Terminator Libby, here. Best picture I could find of the Combi-plasma comes from our own little site, here.

[thade]

If i remember correctly a combi-bolter is like a twin linked bolter where as a storm bolter auto gives you the assault 2.

So the trade off would be a 24 inch single shot with re-roll, or 2 12' double tap one re-roll.

 

* not sure if this rule still applies to current BRB

You remember incorrectly, at least in the context of modern codecies (honestly I haven't seen anything before 3rd Ed, and really anything before 4th Ed I've seen very, very sparingly). A twin-linked bolter is just what it says: a boltgun that is twin-linked (i.e. may re-roll a miss result). A storm bolter is a specific weapon that is S4 AP5 Assault 2 24" range. A combi-bolter is a boltgun with some single-shot weapon mounted to it (a one-turn-use flamer, plasma gun, or meltagun), and I've never seen a combi- that is also twin-linked or a storm bolter.

 

Furthermore, I've only seen twin-linked bolters in the Chaos codex; the 5th Ed marine codecies (vanilla, BA, SW, and GK) have storm bolters and combi- weapons precisely in the way I've just described.

 

ADDENDUM: Zincite, that particular combi-plasma does look storm bolter-like at a glance...but upon close inspection, it is not a storm bolter. One half of it is a boltgun...the other half of it is the plasma gun (which gets one shot). :P Perhaps that's the source of the confusion?

[Dan VK]

Furthermore, I've only seen twin-linked bolters in the Chaos codex; the 5th Ed marine codecies (vanilla, BA, SW, and GK) have storm bolters and combi- weapons precisely in the way I've just described.

Space Marine bikes have twin-linked bolters.

[thade]

Furthermore, I've only seen twin-linked bolters in the Chaos codex; the 5th Ed marine codecies (vanilla, BA, SW, and GK) have storm bolters and combi- weapons precisely in the way I've just described.

Space Marine bikes have twin-linked bolters.

Ah, of course! Fair play to Dan. ;) Bikes do in fact have twin-linked bolters.

 

So, tell me: has anybody seen any combi-bolters that are also twin-linked in any codex? I'd be super-curious for a citation.

[Cpt_Reaper]

My problem is that every combi-weapon I have seen is in an over-under configuration. This particular weapon is side-by-side and the bolter half is short and stubby, much like a storm bolter. Indeed, looking at it from the side you can't tell that the other side is a plasma gun. So while it looks like a storm bolter-plasma, the rules say it is a bolter-plasma. I think I get it now.

[Grey Mage]

Yep, while WYSIWYG can be somewhat restrictive, many models like this are easily cleared up by looking at- or knowing- the options in that codex and using a lil common sense to a good end.

[Zincite]

ADDENDUM: Zincite, that particular combi-plasma does look storm bolter-like at a glance...but upon close inspection, it is not a storm bolter. One half of it is a boltgun...the other half of it is the plasma gun (which gets one shot). :) Perhaps that's the source of the confusion?

Presumably. It looks more like a Storm Bolter with one half replaced with a Plasma Gun, rather than a Bolter with Plasma Gu attached.

 

Which is possibly the same thing in any case.

[thade]

It's not a storm bolter :) it only has one bolter barrel. The other barrel is a plasma barrel. A little misleading, but no matter how I look at it, it's just a combi-plasma. <3

[The Emperor's Champion]

:whistling:

That's hilarious!

This thread has solved a long-standing quirk in the fluff/rules for me....and actually proven one of my Captains is modeled wrong....:whistlingW:

[Zincite]

It's not a storm bolter ;) it only has one bolter barrel. The other barrel is a plasma barrel. A little misleading, but no matter how I look at it, it's just a combi-plasma. <3

I saw it in the same way, but was saying how it could be confused.

[fivepointedstar]

combi- bolter ( AKA twin bolters) do exist in fluff as this was the pre- Storm bolter, and is still used in Chaos forces. Since the modern Storm Bolter is now newer tech and issued to loyal marines. Game wise this Combi-bolter in loyalist forces has the under slug assault weapon with it.

 

Chaos terminators with Storm bolters have what are called a combi- bolter or twin bolters. a twin linked firing bolter. Not sure if this is still used today but was very common in 2nd ed. Rules wise may have change since I don't keep tabs on chaos rules, and fluff.

 

The word Combi is ambiguous for multi weapon as in Combi- Melta, Combi-plasma, Combi- flamer, combi- nade launcher, combi- bolter. ie the word combi is mainly used a synonym for Bolter; as in bolter- melta, bolter- plasma etc..

So for one wespon to be called a Combi- bolter would mean that the main weapon is a bolter, and the secondary weapon is also a bolter but this weapon fires simultaneous like a twin linked system.

[thade]

combi- bolter ( AKA twin bolters) do exist in fluff as this was the pre- Storm bolter, and is still used in Chaos forces....

It's true that Chaos forces still make use of the twin-linked bolter, and that space marine bikes also sport these weapons...but I've never heard this usage you refer to, where a "combi-bolter" represents a twin-linked boltgun. So far I've only seem the term "combi-bolter" used as a catch-all for combi- weapons (-melta, -flamer, and -plasma); nothing else.

 

So far as I know, the short of it is this: a twin-linked bolter is not a combi-anything; its a twin-linked bolter.

[Dan VK]

combi- bolter ( AKA twin bolters) do exist in fluff as this was the pre- Storm bolter, and is still used in Chaos forces....

It's true that Chaos forces still make use of the twin-linked bolter, and that space marine bikes also sport these weapons...but I've never heard this usage you refer to, where a "combi-bolter" represents a twin-linked boltgun. So far I've only seem the term "combi-bolter" used as a catch-all for combi- weapons (-melta, -flamer, and -plasma); nothing else.

 

So far as I know, the short of it is this: a twin-linked bolter is not a combi-anything; its a twin-linked bolter.

Thade is correct. A combi-bolter and a twin-linked bolter are separate weapons, and twin-linked bolter is used uniformly in C:CSM for a side-by-side double bolter configuration.

[fivepointedstar]

Then why call it a Combi-bolter then? because it does not have and under slug attachment like a Combi-melta, -plasma, -flamer.. the combi part IS the Bolter and thus the "-" denotes the attachment like a separate bolter attached to the other bolter.

 

You don't add a combi- bolter to a unit of Sterguards they have attachment weapons like Combi-(flamer, plasma, melta) ADDED. Thus a Combi- bolter is a bolter with a additional weapon attached to it. That eventually became the now used Storm bolter.

 

I didn't write this to argue that a bolter cannot be issued an attachment, but that a combi weapon is a bolter that has a additional attachment "compartment" that would allow for the additional use of said assault weapon. But a twin-linked bolter AKA twin bolter is also known as a Combi-bolter( which is not used/ seen in newer codex's because its not necessary to use, unless on bikes or a MK1c pattern Rhino( what we count as a SB now)).

[thade]

Then why call it a Combi-bolter then?

If it's called a combi-bolter, it's got a -melta, -flamer, or -plasma attached to it; the term "combi-bolter" doesn't mean "a boltgun with a single-shot boltgun attached to it." It means "a bolt gun with one of those other guys attached to it."

 

You don't add a combi- bolter to a unit of Sterguards they have attachment weapons like Combi-(flamer, plasma, melta) ADDED. Thus a Combi- bolter is a bolter with a additional weapon attached to it. That eventually became the now used Storm bolter.

No offense, but now I know you are confused. <3 You don't add the combi- element to the weapon; you take the combi-weapon in exchange for your standard bolter. Check the Sternguard entry; it says "replace", not "add" or "upgrade" or anything else like that.

 

The terms are pretty clear here (which is rare for WH): combi-bolter means "a single-shot weapon is attached to this"; twin-linked means "you can re-roll misses." A twin-linked bolter means you get one shot at 24" if you didn't move, two shots at 12" either way...and you re-roll misses. I can't think of any twin-linked storm bolters or any twin-linked combi-weapons...save combi-meltas and combi-flamers in a list with Vulkan.

[fivepointedstar]

Twin linked bolters... try a Lysander list his units get re-rolls on all bolter "type " weapons.

 

Also I'm not confused. A Combi-melta is a bolter that has an included melta charge to fire once due to fuel limitations. A combi-bolter is a double bolter that fires simultaneously, IE the twin linked. WE don't use Combi-bolters because why would we! there is a 24' storm bolter firing an assault 2 instead of twin-linked. I stating in fluff history of 40K there HAS been a combi-bolter the custodes use them. The bolter fires at same target but is called a combi bolter as in combination "firing" bolter, not that someone would tape on another bolter to have as a under slug that's just dumb. The term we use in most up to date codexes only include the main three under slung variants like combi-melta, combi-plasma, combi-flamer (occasionally seen combi-gernade launcher). The bike version is not a combi bolter as its two separate firing system firing in same path there for its twin linked. A MK1c pattern rhino has two separate firing bolter but would count as a storm bolter; why because that what comes with a rhino now. At one time in 2nd- or third is was twin linked but they took that out, and replaced with storm bolter.

[thade]

I stating in fluff history of 40K there HAS been a combi-bolter the custodes use them.

Citation needed.

 

I'll do some digging myself, but some source material links/pages would be appreciated here. Not really relevant here; the fact remains storm bolters are not intrinsically twin-linked, and there are no storm bolters with attached single-shot elements. <3

 

ADDENDUM: Here is my citation.

[fivepointedstar]

Not really relevant here; the fact remains storm bolters are not intrinsically twin-linked, and there are no storm bolters with attached single-shot elements. <3

 

ADDENDUM: Here is my citation.

I've not stated in previos posts that you can or ever could combi a Storm bolter that would be cool but not what I was implying at all.

 

***ADDENDUM: Here is my citation.***< this is what I've been explaining. :lol:

[thade]

There we are then. :lol: (I implicitly concede. <3 )