Something Wycked Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 As Zincite says... DV8 isn't even going to have to defend himself on that point. LostBritain: inspect this thoroughly. DV8 was offering good, solid, honest advice. Without that kind of advice, there won't be enough improvement for Bionicknees to get the gold. And that's what we want, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodmange Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 As Zincite says... DV8 isn't even going to have to defend himself on that point. LostBritain: inspect this thoroughly. DV8 was offering good, solid, honest advice. Without that kind of advice, there won't be enough improvement for Bionicknees to get the gold. And that's what we want, isn't it? And lets not forget this... http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=193192 All things concidered the models do look very good. but I get the feeling of them missing something. They just aren't quite there yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reckoning Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 As Zincite says... DV8 isn't even going to have to defend himself on that point. LostBritain: inspect this thoroughly. DV8 was offering good, solid, honest advice. Without that kind of advice, there won't be enough improvement for Bionicknees to get the gold. And that's what we want, isn't it? This. Advice from a reliable source should always be sought after and appreciated. But they are very good models, even if they are missing that extra something. Much better than anything Im capable of so you have my respect! :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glendor Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 DV8 isnt saying they are bad he is giving criticism to help get to the next level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAGABOND Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Sorry but I can't see how these got into the finalist stages of Golden Demon when they look like Tabletop standard paintjobs. My Angels Of Vengeance have a similar highlight paintjob but they aren't going to be winning many awards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaponAdept Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 I'm just saying, credit where credit is due and there was none given. If that was addressed to me I would not have taken it as constructive critism. If DV8 was a 10 times golden deamon gold medalist I would still have called him rude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watcher in the Dark Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 I'm just saying, credit where credit is due and there was none given. If that was addressed to me I would not have taken it as constructive critism. If DV8 was a 10 times golden deamon gold medalist I would still have called him rude. I'm inclined to agree. DV8 is in the position to have offered constructive criticism based on his talent, but instead he just leveled his artists eye and blasted away, denoting the list of imperfections in the piece (the criticism), without giving much insight in how to achieve higher results (see how the constructive isn't there?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfman Walt Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 I'm inclined to agree. DV8 is in the position to have offered constructive criticism based on his talent, but instead he just leveled his artists eye and blasted away, denoting the list of imperfections in the piece (the criticism), without giving much insight in how to achieve higher results (see how the constructive isn't there?). Except those comments WERE pretty constructive. While not telling the op exactly what to do to fix it, he gave advice on what's wrong. If it was just being unconstructive, he would have simply stated that "They're terrible," or what have you. Instead, he went into WHY he didn't think they were great IE lack of shading, putting the banner on too large of a free space, etc. Could he have been nicer about it and gone into hand holding? Yes. Can you say that he wasn't leveling some sort of advice that would improve the miniatures and possibly help this guy win a Golden Daemon next time he enters? No. You don't have to spell everything out to people to make things "constructive" and criticism in itself isn't gonna be considered "nice," by anyone. I also denoted that no one has yet invalidated his complaints, outside of one person's opinion, of which he quickly disputed. Instead it has become "He's mean and rude!" which is nonsense. He gave an honest opinion, something I think we should be glad for instead of blasting him. If everyone just said "THAT'S PERFECT," then what would lead the op to believe that it was anything but? That really would only lead OP into believing he was cheated and continue with the same level of work instead of opinion to improve his obvious talents. As for the models themselves - I have no real feelings about them that hasn't already been said. The free hand is nice, but everything else looks rather simple and without much depth? Granted, they ARE incredibly clean, which is it's own boon, but one can be clean and add something outside of a base highlight. There's also mistakes that make me curious about things, such as mispelling corvus. Could be an honest mistake, could be a rush job, could be many things. I think maybe we should give the op a chance to explain it? Who knows, maybe all this HAS very good explanation for the more questionable parts. For all we know, maybe it's a DIY chapter, as someone else had mentioned, inwhich case all the conflicting parts are pretty much explained in a single line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafen_2 Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Quit frankly DV8 is in the right here. If everyone is saying good job why does he have to as well? He is one of the best painters on this forum so it is good that he comes out and puts in his two cents. He even apologized for sounding like an B) at one point. I could see you all hating on him if he was just thrashing his stuff but he isn't. On topic: I think their pre-heresy Dark Angels. Thats just me though. Never mind went back and saw the symbol. So I guess DIY? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kay Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 As uncomfortable to me as it is, im on DV8's side. Im not saying they aint good minis, wich they are, but IMHO, and i want to stress the "IMHO" if that is the GDUK finals painting level, well... to bad for english painters, you'll never beat the french, or us the spanish... xD I also see some very nice undercoated, very nice light-outlined minis, and a very nice modeled banner with a very nice underused space. What i dont see is a worthy finalist, wich on the other hand, as a matter of fact, it is... DV8 has done something i thought had a non-witten ban over it, which is give bad citics (not "bad" for the quality but for the critic itself) on a miniature, and I think it is brave and honest to write what you REALLY think, instead what is nice for the others to read. DV8 has a great reputation on this forum, both as a regular poster and as an exceptional painter. I think that, far from trolling, what he tries is to give an objective critic. I feel like im signing my death sentence on this forum on this forum saying this but hey... like Mourinho, nothing worse than a hypocrit xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan the Lurker Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Hey folks...moderator here. B) Please lets get back to discussing the models and not whether DV8 was rude or not. Frankly if the mods had felt he was not being constructive or flaming we would have done something about it. There are a few posts here outright slagging on the minis in question and while they are borderline they haven't gotten to the point where we feel the need to step in. But again, get back to talking about the minis and not DV8 and his opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 But I just looked at DV08's mini threads and now I feel bad about my stuff, so I wanna call him rude too! D: Just kidding. I guess there's not a lot to add. It IS a simple scheme, which could be improved by some contrast. While I agree with DV08 and company that it's a little too simple to walk away with a prize and you could have had a lot more fun with the banner, it does draw the eye to your excellent freehand work. I would like to see this level of freehand on marines with depth to their armor. If you insist on black, drybrush some gray onto the armor, like astronomicon gray and then a light drybrush of fortress, then ink wash the crap out of it. Voila, black with depth, then you can go crazy with your exx-treme highlights. ... cause seriously, those highlights are extreme. Like Nacho-cheese Doritos and Mountain Dew with a shot of Emperor's Children stimulant extreme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV8 Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 After 10-15 posts of "Great job" and "Kudos" and "Congratulations", does the OP really need another pat on the back, except to simply feed his ego? Yes he did a great job, all the posters before me already stated as much. The fact that he made it to the Finalist position at one of the tougher Golden Demons around is evidence of such. It's redundant for me to state otherwise. Instead, I pointed out why he didn't place, and what he needed to make his models pop. I pointed out the flaws, and the reasons for why they were (from which he can infer what he needs to not do in order to avoid making those same mistakes). Take a look at the red bolters. Take a look at the helmet lenses. The man knows how to blend, and he knows how to get great contrast. I don't feel that elaborating on techniques of how to blend, shade, etc. are necessary to make my critiques constructive, when he clearly knows how to blend, shade, etc. So I just told him where else to blend, shade, etc. I pointed out how he can improve his chances on placing the next time around. Sorry but I can't see how these got into the finalist stages of Golden Demon when they look like Tabletop standard paintjobs. My Angels Of Vengeance have a similar highlight paintjob but they aren't going to be winning many awards. Cleanliness is a major factor. Being able to exhibit clean techniques, regardless of extreme highlights, super-natural shading, etc., showing the judges you can paint a technique flawlessly can go miles to helping sway the judges in your favor. As I stated in my initial post, however, edge highlighting just isn't enough to push him into a placing spot. What really carried him all the way to Finalist was his crisp clean freehand. DV8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafen_2 Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 After 10-15 posts of "Great job" and "Kudos" and "Congratulations", does the OP really need another pat on the back, except to simply feed his ego? Yes he did a great job, all the posters before me already stated as much. The fact that he made it to the Finalist position at one of the tougher Golden Demons around is evidence of such. It's redundant for me to state otherwise. Exactly what I said. Could the guy who posted this really tell us what chapter this is? It looks like Pre-Heresy Dark Angels with the Blood Angel symbol plus Space Wolf bolters. The models look good but the fact that they were entered into a Golden Demon raises the bar for excellence and every mistake must be purged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olgerth Istaarn Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 What's a "Covrus"?.. Great models, I personally don't think the SW bolters are a big deal, but I also think DV8's points were valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CM Dante Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 I think in general you have done a nice job. The painting is clean with some good technique on show and the presentation is nice too - often ignored but having a nice plinth goes a long way to getting a piece spotted in the cabinets and setting the tone. Where you could improve this entry in my opinion is to have used a dark grey as a base for the armour instead of flat black. This would have given you room to shade and develop the contrast more. Edge highlighting is fine (even the sword winner has it to those naysayers), but you still need to have shading and colour transition IMHO. Similarly, on the robes, the shading could have been pushed more in the folds and it looks like you've missed a stage or two in the highlighting to soften the step change between base coat and highlight. The banner is fine as is for GD level to possibly have gotten you a bronze, or maybe silver against weaker competition, but to improve it I would start by adding texture to the fabric to make it look more like a real banner. "spotting" works well to do this. Basically adding small dots of paint with highlight and shade colours, building through the tones. From a distance it looks like regular gradient transition, up close it adds a fabric-like texture which "fills" space visually. You should still be proud of the achievement and ignore the people questioning how your entry was even a finalist - it is always a tou category and the standard of entries was high once again. As an aside, it doesn't matter who you are or what you have achieved if, in giving feedback or critique on someone else's work, you can't maintain your dignity and a respect for the creator while doing so. While DV8 could have included a softening statement or two while doing so, I don't thunk his intention was to be rude or unhelpful. I do however think that some of the posters following his comments have failed to do this. Congrats again and hopefully see you backstage next year ^_^ Cheers, Dante Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynnean Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 it is a very nice paintjob, but the choice of parts is a little bit poor. the Space Wolfs bolters, the Blood Angels transfer, and the "Covrus" thing... but yeah. also, the Banner could've been more decorated. overall it's a nice view, but the fluff heresy does hurt my eyes a bit :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bionicknees Posted October 3, 2011 Author Share Posted October 3, 2011 Hi guys, Thanks for all your reply's I must say I'm quite shocked my little thread is this popular :P Just to say I respect everyone's opinions and appreciate everyone being honest. Thanks for all the advice, but to be honest I knew the were flat and boring they were kinda meant to be like that in some ways as my entry for last year was to messy, unrefined and harsh contrast. I guess I to just went to much in the wrong direction and made them flat. In hindsight I wouldn't of pick black for the Armour as I know now it's quite a hard colour to highlight when blending without looking grey but looks to harsh when just edge highlighted. Still lesson learned... And for yours questions about my chapter, I have no idea :) I'm not really studied on all the background of the games I just stick bits together I like and that's about it. Peace Everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Sensei Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 German grey (PA) is a great color to start a black, then shading to pure black (and a little tip of dark blue) in recesses. For a progressive shading to light zone, well it'll even easyer considering the fact you're using a grey originally. Just a WIP on black painting (reminds me the wip from Mc Vey on the different "greens" when he painted the green knight) : http://www.spanish-team.com/foro/viewtopic...792&start=0 DS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zincite Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 And for yours questions about my chapter, I have no idea :D I'm not really studied on all the background of the games I just stick bits together I like and that's about it. How do you paint that well but not know the background? 'Tis craziness I do declare! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shdwcypher13 Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 What I want to know is if you yanked the backs off of.the ss legs or handed then down. its hard to tell from the pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIDM Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 I for one am a fan of minimalist work. When you have a controlled hand it shows a lot more overall skill than someone who needs to make a model "busy". I agree though, you could use depth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathnid Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 this is what a space marine looks like :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemainus Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 How bloody rude. Not even a congrats in there. Care to post YOUR finalist entry for this year? I don't think there are many people on here more qualified than DV8 to offer criticism. Truth. Honestly, don't ask DV8 to post the stuff he's won or the competitions he's dominated. We'd get to page 7 without a break in his posts before we could start the discussion again. Back on topic: I like the simplicity of the models but I'm with DV8 on the assessment of shading - even if it was extremely subtle transitions, keeping in step with the stark mood you went for with the marines, it would have added a lot to the piece. Personally I like the banner the way it is. In keeping with the models, it couldn't have been too too busy, because at some point it would have started to seem a different personality than the marines themselves. That would be weird. To end my post, I WISH I could freehand as steady as you. Jesus. It's like you take muscle relaxers and go tantric before you make straight lines. So jealous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iacton Qruze Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I have to echo DV8's critique. The biggest thing holding you back is that hard edge highlight, and the flatness of the robes and banner. Anything to add a little more basic depth on the robes and banner, and it would have potentially gotten by, but the hard edges are going to keep you down. Black is an admittedly hard color to pull off, and I have a fairly tough time with it, myself, but the black base/grey edge thing that people have been doing for years generally begets a tabletop quality model, nothing more. Your freehand is very well done, and most likely what got you noticed and bumped into the finalists. I also noticed the lenses on the marines. Nicely done, clean with plenty of depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.