The beloved emperor (Please no spoilers)

[SolomonDemeter]

Since my last posting (thanks for all the good spoiler-free answers back then :) ) I recently had time to read the books again and just finished the Mechanicum novel.

 

The novels so far were all great although I have to say "(Battle for the Abyss" spoiler)

 

 

I was shocked of the ending of "Battle for the Abyss". I checked the name index at the beginning, if I don't get it wrong everybody except Kelbor-Hal is dying until the end. Don't get me wrong, the book was great, but man was that weird seeing everything being build up by the book, characters being defined, and in the end everything didn't matter at all as all is destroyed and you are where you were before you started reading the book. Even the main space crafts are torn into pieces. Sure the actions will influence various things, but nontheless it was a strange experience.

 

 

But what bothered me again is that ("Mechanicum" spoilers)

 

 

it is explained that the emporeor placed that dragon thing on the Mars to influence or even trigger the rise of the Mechanicum. So far so good, but that again makes it harder for me to believe that the Emperor couldn't have seen the fall of Horus or the heresy of the Word Bearers. He plans ahead aeons, but he can't see what happens in his own rows with the persons he cares about most? Sorry but that just doesn't fit together for me.

 

Also I wonder what the Emperor is freakin doing, I guess he now knows for quite a while (seeing it from the perspective of the end of "Mechanicum") what's going on but he doesn't show up. Although I understand that this is a major part of the story and will be revealed later on. Might be fighting daemon gods in the warp or something ... Please don't spoil me ;)

 

From the few things I read from 40k I know that most knowledge of how the more advanced humankind technology works is lost in 40k. If I get it correctly the events in Mechanicum are one main reason for this. And here I might kick over the traces, but couldn't they make f*cking backups of their data? They know it's the most valuable data but they don't store it on another planet? Or start an emergency transmission to Terra in their last hours? They have all the knowledge in libraries on fragil paper? I guess someone will explain with "Knlowedge is power, guard it well" and that means don't share it with anyone. Guess I have explained that one myself.

 

 

 

One more strange thing was in "Legion"

 

 

At one point the Alpha Legion (I don't know if they are a trator legion yet so please don't spoil me) use this device with which they can look into the future. I was so surprised when it told them to join Horus so the mankind would better be destroyed in one big fireball than to burn slowly for years. Either way in the end mankind would extinct. Several times I asked myself if this was the truth all of this novels, well the whole 40k universe seems kind of useless. Although the existence of ourselves would then be insignificant too as it's more or less certain that we will also be whiped out, although I guess sooner than in 40k years ... Sorry for getting philosophical. So basically they are telling the truth and we know the sad end of the whole story (mandkind will die slowly together with the Emperor) or the aliens put a little lie into the whole thing or didn't tell the whole truth that this is just one possible future. I was not really sure about that as the xenos didn't seem to like humans, so they might try to manipulate them to receive the least damage out of the whole situation, not caring about mankind or even seing the possiblity to get rid of them. What do you think? If this is revealed later i beg you to don't spoil me!

 

 

Sorry for jumping around topics but those Heresey novels always keep me busy thinking about all those details, and I feel better when discussing things that bug me ;)

 

I somehow love and hate the grim picture drawn by the novels. Mankind has so much knowledge and power, but doesn't care about environmental protection, needs of an individual or working together with the more peacefull xeons they could learn from. Astrates are shining heroes, but you never know what will happen as in the end they are expandable as everything else and can die in every single scene. The emperor is almost god like, but the chaos in the end is immortal, utmost you can do is fight it for an eternity. Somehow the books are crude, "stupid" and violent but in the end they make me think more about important topics than many other not so action-paced books. Just my opinion ... :devil:

[darkbubba]

I aggree that some of the novels are pretty violent and maybe a tad silly, but I like what the space marines, loyalists of course, represent: loyalty, duty, honor and unity of purpose. Those are things that I strive to be and when I read a novel, no matter how dark, those things always draw me in and give me a place to go to where duty, honor and country (well in this case the Imperium) mean something.

[Zincite]

So far so good, but that again makes it harder for me to believe that the Emperor couldn't have seen the fall of Horus or the heresy of the Word Bearers. He plans ahead aeons, but he can't see what happens in his own rows with the persons he cares about most? Sorry but that just doesn't fit together for me.

Pretend the Emperor is Obi-Wan Kenobi. Now Horus is Anakin. It makes a little bit more sense that way.

 

I... What? No, Khorne. I did not intend to make you wear a dress. No, you do not have to be Padme. Yes. Now go and kill something like a good little Chaos God.

[Claws of Corax]

Pretend the Emperor is Obi-Wan Kenobi. Now Horus is Anakin. It makes a little bit more sense that way.

 

I... What? No, Khorne. I did not intend to make you wear a dress. No, you do not have to be Padme. Yes. Now go and kill something like a good little Chaos God.

 

Sigged!

[SolomonDemeter]

Regaring the "loyalty, duty, honor and unity of purpose" in the novels - Strange enough it's the other way round for me. I rate those values in the books very critically. They are all under the aspect of war, and finally as soon as those values split everybody into two fractions it almost leads to the extinction of the humandkind. Nationalism in my opinion is not a very good thing, especially in combination with a war-thirsty regime. So basically all those things that seem great at first glance turn out to also come for a price. Power comes with surpression and denial of individuality, the industrial success leads to polution and destroys whole planets, the nationalism leads to the extinction of humans who don't want to join the emperor and xenos in general even if peacefull, the fascinating powers of the Psykers and others come from the dark dephts of the Warp. So basically the medal always has two sides, and that's what I like about the novels. I don't know if they do it intentionally, but it's definitely there.

 

About the Star Wars comparison: Wasn't Obi-Wan Kenobi a very young Jedi Master not ready to take care of a Padawan with as much power as Anakin owned it? Not really like the all-mighty Emperor who set up the whole thing centuries ago, planned every little detail and than doesn't see what's happening right under his nose. :P

[Phoebus]

SolomonDemeter,

 

There are mentions in the novels (and in "Visions of Heresy") that the Chaos gods begin interfering with the Emperor's precognitive powers as the buildup to the Heresy begins. It's not coincidence that he just suddenly stopped being this omniscient super-man. :devil:

[DIDM]

Since my last posting (thanks for all the good spoiler-free answers back then :) ) I recently had time to read the books again and just finished the Mechanicum novel.

 

The novels so far were all great although I have to say "(Battle for the Abyss" spoiler)

 

 

I was shocked of the ending of "Battle for the Abyss". I checked the name index at the beginning, if I don't get it wrong everybody except Kelbor-Hal is dying until the end. Don't get me wrong, the book was great, but man was that weird seeing everything being build up by the book, characters being defined, and in the end everything didn't matter at all as all is destroyed and you are where you were before you started reading the book. Even the main space crafts are torn into pieces. Sure the actions will influence various things, but nontheless it was a strange experience.

 

 

But what bothered me again is that ("Mechanicum" spoilers)

 

 

it is explained that the emporeor placed that dragon thing on the Mars to influence or even trigger the rise of the Mechanicum. So far so good, but that again makes it harder for me to believe that the Emperor couldn't have seen the fall of Horus or the heresy of the Word Bearers. He plans ahead aeons, but he can't see what happens in his own rows with the persons he cares about most? Sorry but that just doesn't fit together for me.

 

Also I wonder what the Emperor is freakin doing, I guess he now knows for quite a while (seeing it from the perspective of the end of "Mechanicum") what's going on but he doesn't show up. Although I understand that this is a major part of the story and will be revealed later on. Might be fighting daemon gods in the warp or something ... Please don't spoil me ;)

 

From the few things I read from 40k I know that most knowledge of how the more advanced humankind technology works is lost in 40k. If I get it correctly the events in Mechanicum are one main reason for this. And here I might kick over the traces, but couldn't they make f*cking backups of their data? They know it's the most valuable data but they don't store it on another planet? Or start an emergency transmission to Terra in their last hours? They have all the knowledge in libraries on fragil paper? I guess someone will explain with "Knlowedge is power, guard it well" and that means don't share it with anyone. Guess I have explained that one myself.

 

 

 

One more strange thing was in "Legion"

 

 

At one point the Alpha Legion (I don't know if they are a trator legion yet so please don't spoil me) use this device with which they can look into the future. I was so surprised when it told them to join Horus so the mankind would better be destroyed in one big fireball than to burn slowly for years. Either way in the end mankind would extinct. Several times I asked myself if this was the truth all of this novels, well the whole 40k universe seems kind of useless. Although the existence of ourselves would then be insignificant too as it's more or less certain that we will also be whiped out, although I guess sooner than in 40k years ... Sorry for getting philosophical. So basically they are telling the truth and we know the sad end of the whole story (mandkind will die slowly together with the Emperor) or the aliens put a little lie into the whole thing or didn't tell the whole truth that this is just one possible future. I was not really sure about that as the xenos didn't seem to like humans, so they might try to manipulate them to receive the least damage out of the whole situation, not caring about mankind or even seing the possiblity to get rid of them. What do you think? If this is revealed later i beg you to don't spoil me!

 

 

Sorry for jumping around topics but those Heresey novels always keep me busy thinking about all those details, and I feel better when discussing things that bug me ;)

 

I somehow love and hate the grim picture drawn by the novels. Mankind has so much knowledge and power, but doesn't care about environmental protection, needs of an individual or working together with the more peacefull xeons they could learn from. Astrates are shining heroes, but you never know what will happen as in the end they are expandable as everything else and can die in every single scene. The emperor is almost god like, but the chaos in the end is immortal, utmost you can do is fight it for an eternity. Somehow the books are crude, "stupid" and violent but in the end they make me think more about important topics than many other not so action-paced books. Just my opinion ... :devil:

 

 

Since my last posting (thanks for all the good spoiler-free answers back then :) ) I recently had time to read the books again and just finished the Mechanicum novel.

 

The novels so far were all great although I have to say "(Battle for the Abyss" spoiler)

 

 

I was shocked of the ending of "Battle for the Abyss". I checked the name index at the beginning, if I don't get it wrong everybody except Kelbor-Hal is dying until the end. Don't get me wrong, the book was great, but man was that weird seeing everything being build up by the book, characters being defined, and in the end everything didn't matter at all as all is destroyed and you are where you were before you started reading the book. Even the main space crafts are torn into pieces. Sure the actions will influence various things, but nontheless it was a strange experience.

 

 

But what bothered me again is that ("Mechanicum" spoilers)

 

 

it is explained that the emporeor placed that dragon thing on the Mars to influence or even trigger the rise of the Mechanicum. So far so good, but that again makes it harder for me to believe that the Emperor couldn't have seen the fall of Horus or the heresy of the Word Bearers. He plans ahead aeons, but he can't see what happens in his own rows with the persons he cares about most? Sorry but that just doesn't fit together for me.

 

Also I wonder what the Emperor is freakin doing, I guess he now knows for quite a while (seeing it from the perspective of the end of "Mechanicum") what's going on but he doesn't show up. Although I understand that this is a major part of the story and will be revealed later on. Might be fighting daemon gods in the warp or something ... Please don't spoil me ;)

 

From the few things I read from 40k I know that most knowledge of how the more advanced humankind technology works is lost in 40k. If I get it correctly the events in Mechanicum are one main reason for this. And here I might kick over the traces, but couldn't they make f*cking backups of their data? They know it's the most valuable data but they don't store it on another planet? Or start an emergency transmission to Terra in their last hours? They have all the knowledge in libraries on fragil paper? I guess someone will explain with "Knlowedge is power, guard it well" and that means don't share it with anyone. Guess I have explained that one myself.

 

 

 

One more strange thing was in "Legion"

 

 

At one point the Alpha Legion (I don't know if they are a trator legion yet so please don't spoil me) use this device with which they can look into the future. I was so surprised when it told them to join Horus so the mankind would better be destroyed in one big fireball than to burn slowly for years. Either way in the end mankind would extinct. Several times I asked myself if this was the truth all of this novels, well the whole 40k universe seems kind of useless. Although the existence of ourselves would then be insignificant too as it's more or less certain that we will also be whiped out, although I guess sooner than in 40k years ... Sorry for getting philosophical. So basically they are telling the truth and we know the sad end of the whole story (mandkind will die slowly together with the Emperor) or the aliens put a little lie into the whole thing or didn't tell the whole truth that this is just one possible future. I was not really sure about that as the xenos didn't seem to like humans, so they might try to manipulate them to receive the least damage out of the whole situation, not caring about mankind or even seing the possiblity to get rid of them. What do you think? If this is revealed later i beg you to don't spoil me!

 

 

Sorry for jumping around topics but those Heresey novels always keep me busy thinking about all those details, and I feel better when discussing things that bug me ;)

 

I somehow love and hate the grim picture drawn by the novels. Mankind has so much knowledge and power, but doesn't care about environmental protection, needs of an individual or working together with the more peacefull xeons they could learn from. Astrates are shining heroes, but you never know what will happen as in the end they are expandable as everything else and can die in every single scene. The emperor is almost god like, but the chaos in the end is immortal, utmost you can do is fight it for an eternity. Somehow the books are crude, "stupid" and violent but in the end they make me think more about important topics than many other not so action-paced books. Just my opinion ...

 

 

wait, are you just jumping around in the series?

 

The Alpha Legion were know traitors 2 books before Legion

[The 13th Goat]

Wait, are you just jumping around in the series?

 

The Alpha Legion were know traitors 2 books before Legion

 

Barring the short stories that covered the early days and Decent Of Angels, Legion is chronologically one of the earliest.

 

But I agree, if the OP is reading out of order, he is gonna get confused.

[Arkangilos]

With the whole foreseeing thing:

 

I think the Emperor foresaw all of it, and I think he planned it. He set in motion what would lead to the End Times.

[SolomonDemeter]

wait, are you just jumping around in the series?

 

The Alpha Legion were know traitors 2 books before Legion

 

Ok, what about "please don't spoil me" didn't you understand? Seriously why are you being such a moron. ;)

 

I'm readin them in the correct order. Two novels before Legion would be Fulgrim. I just checked and it's true, they joined the battlefield at the end and weren't among the loyal troops. Nontheless I didn't remember that and would have appreciated the tension not know it (anymore).

[DIDM]

wait, are you just jumping around in the series?

 

The Alpha Legion were know traitors 2 books before Legion

 

Ok, what about "please don't spoil me" didn't you understand? Seriously why are you being such a moron. ;)

 

I'm readin them in the correct order. Two novels before Legion would be Fulgrim. I just checked and it's true, they joined the battlefield at the end and weren't among the loyal troops. Nontheless I didn't remember that and would have appreciated the tension not know it (anymore).

 

 

if you don't remember what happens in prior books in a series maybe you shouldn't read series?

 

 

remembering what happens is pretty important in series, or maybe that is just me?

[Lord_Caerolion]

As others have said, the Emperor was having his divination abilities blocked by the Emperor. He could tell something was possibly coming, but he couldn't tell what, and he might have put down the feeling that a lot of fighting was about to happen to "well, we're conquering the galaxy, of course there's going to be fighting!"

[Legatus]

The Alpha Legion were know traitors 2 books before Legion

Ok, what about "please don't spoil me" didn't you understand?

Oh, gee, "spoiler alert", the Alpha Legion Chaos Space Marines are Chaos Space Marines. :)

[SolomonDemeter]

Alpha Legion belonging to the Chaos Space Marines might be something you know for years and is as much news as that Darth Vader is Luke's father, but you have to see it from my perspective. I don't know yet which Legions are trator legions and want to keep the tension until the end. I went into the whole thing with little WH40k knowledge.

 

And if I forget one barley mentioned legion out of five or six who participated in the battle at the end of Fulgrim doesn't disqualify me from reading the novles. Even having Alzheimer's wouldn't be a reason to stop reading, but there is no reason to not respect my request for not spoiling me.

 

@all serious answers: Thanks for your thoughts. Especially Telanicus theory is really heretic ... uhh I meant intersesting ;)

[Zincite]

About the Star Wars comparison: Wasn't Obi-Wan Kenobi a very young Jedi Master not ready to take care of a Padawan with as much power as Anakin owned it? Not really like the all-mighty Emperor who set up the whole thing centuries ago, planned every little detail and than doesn't see what's happening right under his nose. :)

I meant it more as like Obi-Wan ignored a lot of Anakin's doings because he didn't want to see it. Granted, the Emperor would probably have had less qualms about it, but he still might have assumed his sons were doing the right thing. Or known they weren't, but let it play out nonetheless.

[Legatus]

Alpha Legion belonging to the Chaos Space Marines might be something you know for years and is as much news as that Darth Vader is Luke's father, but you have to see it from my perspective. I don't know yet which Legions are trator legions and want to keep the tension until the end. I went into the whole thing with little WH40k knowledge.

Ah, I see. Sorry dude, I had no idea. Under those circumstances I can understand your aversion to spoilers.

[Ace Debonair]

As others have said, the Emperor was having his divination abilities blocked by the Emperor. He could tell something was possibly coming, but he couldn't tell what, and he might have put down the feeling that a lot of fighting was about to happen to "well, we're conquering the galaxy, of course there's going to be fighting!"

 

Now that is surely the ultimate Horus Heresy conspiracy theory. :blink:

[DIDM]

I am sorry you feel that way, I don't think of things that were well before a book that you are talking about as a spoiler.

 

 

 

it really is hard to spoil something that already happened. I tend to read a series at a time, and I read enough that there isn't much time between books. Maybe that is it? Did you just forget or are you skipping around? Cause it was really the biggest thing to happen in the whole book, it was basically the start.

[Apothecary Vaddon]

I don't know if Bill King's old short that dealt with the final battle b/w Horus and the Emperor is still canonical, but it said that he could foresee everything but the latter part of the Crusade (I think). It was black to him, and he didn't know what was going to happen. So basically, his gamble with Horus failed, and he was so shocked that he pooped so badly that he couldn't kill Horus until either a Custodes or Ollanius Pius came in and got flayed alive and then he turned on the uberpwn.

So while he could see most events in the future, I think his foresight ended somewhere near the Davin incident. The short wasn't specific on where his future-sense ability ended, but I'd assume that it was around there.

[Zincite]

I don't know if Bill King's old short that dealt with the final battle b/w Horus and the Emperor is still canonical, but it said that he could foresee everything but the latter part of the Crusade (I think).

That makes sense. Nothing better than the old "Sorry guys, that part of the future is unseeable" plot to clear things up.

[Arkangilos]

He planned it I say!