An honest GK Player.

[Dropsik]

If you always bring a Furioso in your list, well...what else is he going to do? Send him in. I wouldn't specifically bring a Furioso to this fight...but he might make a nice clean up crew after you wear them down with massed anti-tank fire.

 

Alright dude. I think you are confusing two things that I'm talking about.

 

1. Furioso dreadnaught in combat with Paladin Squad.

 

2. Close Combat with paladin squad.

 

those were the points of my arguments. and, as for Furioso Librarian.

I was never advocating he was a way to go to mitigate paladin squads. What I said, is that when you already have him in your list he ISN'T useless and he will be virtually annihillated in moment paladins even look at him. Even at strenght 10 it's not so easy to penetrate and explode WS6 AV13 walker. And, sometimes, he can put a decent dent in paladins before vapourising. and I don't know dude, you forgot about AV13, might of titans can be cast only in GK turn:

When every single model swings three times when charged at S6+ with 2d6 armor pen...it's a bad day for a Furioso.

so it's S + d6 not 2d6. And still, it can be hooded. and paladins have base strenght 4, so with two hammerhands it's strenght 6. dude, you make some heavy mistakes.

 

If you always bring a Furioso in your list, well...what else is he going to do? Send him in. I wouldn't specifically bring a Furioso to this fight...but he might make a nice clean up crew after you wear them down with massed anti-tank fire.

I never do. Well, almost never. I like dreadnaughts and all, played them few times, but in my opinion they are too weak. I prefer Furioso Librarian Dreadys because they present somenthing fairly new and unusuall in BA list, and sometimes my opponent isn't prepared for jumpin dreadnaught. but still - I don't use them. However, I don't think so they'll implode each time they get a funny look. And if you know how to play them, they can be a real pain.

 

alright, now the second point.

 

it takes them away from where they'd otherwise like to go (objectives, the rest of my army, etc.) limiting the value of their consolidation move. Nip at their heels and trip them up.

no, it doesn't. I showed how it works with such big units in this "Shooty BA - the future?" thread, that was closed not so long ago. In short - with such a big unit (paladins, big mobs of orks and stealers, hammernators under shrike - you got the idea) you can charge 'bait' squads, and still move some of your models in any direction. and then consolidate further. I won't explain it second time, if you like, I can show it to you via PM.

 

Virtually all of the Paladin Death Star builds I've seen bring three hammers, two at a bare minimum.

maybe that's your meta. in my meta paladin squads look like:

10 paladins, standard, 4 psycannons, 8 helberds, 1 hammer.

 

I say this quite a bit as - in theory - it's the way to go. But it's hardly magic and not an automatic win. If your opponent knows what he's doing, it's never an easy game. Hitting a giant anvil with giant hammers is not the way I'd go. I'd actually mire the giant anvil down in mud and skirt around it.

no it isn't theory. recently on this forum was a topic by morticon, about how is he going on SA Nationals. In one battlereport I think he exactly put this kind of move. My english is far from perfect, so you could ask him for explanation. My recent game against DE saw me separating one incubi from the rest of a squad and an archon. I lost one marine, and wiped out whole squad.

It's definitely magic.

And it's not hitting with giant hammer - that would be if I frontally charged them with 10 or more hammernators. Or with 30 DC. or with 20 VV etc. No, instead I'm using my brain to outsmart my opponent, and thus minimalising threat presented by big unit with two IC to single or maybe two models. However, it's a hard move, I agree there. But if you know what are you doing, it's just a multi threat vector thing. With fast BA vehicles, pulling that kind of move is much, much simpler.

 

cheers!

[Morollan]

When every single model swings three times when charged at S6+ with 2d6 armor pen...it's a bad day for a Furioso.

so it's S + d6 not 2d6. And still, it can be hooded. and paladins have base strenght 4, so with two hammerhands it's strenght 6. dude, you make some heavy mistakes.

 

I think he was probably thinking Hammerhand + Might of Titan but, as you say, MoT can only be cast in the GK turn.

[Dropsik]

Draigo + the unit is two applications of Hammerhand, so the Halberds are at S7

 

it looks like only two hammerhands to me :P

 

cheers!

[Morollan]

Draigo + the unit is two applications of Hammerhand, so the Halberds are at S7

 

it looks like only two hammerhands to me ;)

 

Yes, but that was not the part that you were quoting. The relevant section was:

 

They are immune to small arms fire, put out 20-30 attacks stationary (40 on the charge !) not counting Draigo...all Force Weapons with a healthy number of S10 attacks. If there's a Librarian in there, it's a Dreadnought killing zone. When every single model swings three times when charged at S6+ with 2d6 armor pen...it's a bad day for a Furioso.

 

I don't see that there is anything connecting those two quotes and it seems clear that the second one was Hammerhand and MoT. The earlier quote was multiple Hammerhands.

[Dropsik]

yeah, you're right. my comment was dealing with two points at the same time though.

 

but it's good you pointed that out.

 

Cheers!