Dark Apostle Thirst Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 ...oh baby don't hurt me! Don't hurt me, no more! :P Chaos is the one truth in this dark universe. The Imperium is founded on lies - Chaos is the Word of truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearingtheword Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Chaos is the polar opposite of Order.... Chaos is swirling morass of change that prevents stagnation.... Chaos is the unexpected, often unwelcome, force of change... Chaos is absolute freedom... Chaos is the perpetual motion of the pendulum.... Chaos is .... INEVITABLE!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cypher371 Posted September 30, 2011 Share Posted September 30, 2011 Chaos is truth, it is fair, it doesn't discriminate. It's everywhere. It is the gateway to freedom from the constricting shackles of order. It has many faces all of which compete with each other but need each other in the same way that light wouldn't exist without dark. Only a fool would devote themselves to one of the many aspect of chaos. True ascension will only come from accepting and embracing the entirety of chaos in its undivided glory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaguecaster Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Chaos may be evil as some people think but after all evil spelled backwards is live, anyway why be a slave to order when you can embrace Chaos being free from all the lies able to change your destiny forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darknightdrako Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 How does a universe that starts off as dust end up with intelligent life? How does order emerge from disorder? Chaos answers a question that mankind has asked for millennia - how did we get here? Most of the questions was taken from the documentary called "The Secret Life of Chaos" :blink: If you guys have spare time try to watch it, its really interesting and is what got me hooked into 40k Chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malthe Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 This is a great topic! Though I'm afraid that I am going to have to disagree with the majority of the answers posted here :ermm: Concensus appears to be that Chaos is by nature 'random', 'unpredictable' and 'the antithesis or Order'. I'm am going ahead to postulate that Chaos, in the context of W40K, is neither of those things. Chaos as we know it is composed of four sentient powers, each of which is clearly sepperated from the others. These powers have wants, needs and vastly different outlooks on reality. This makes then predictable, ordered and catagorisable. We know what Khorne wants; rage and blodshed. We know what Slannesh wants; sensual plessure. We know what Nurgle wants; death and rebirth (note that this makes him vastly more interesting than the previous two, atleast as an object of discussion!) We know what Tzeench wants; knowledge and, I dare say, power. Further more we know their character traits... Bad form GW... All this makes them predictable. I'm asuming the common counter-argument to be: 'But Chaos is those four combined and many more, therefore chaos in its entirety is unpredictable anf opposite of order'. However I see two reasons why this does not contradicts my postulate. First: Chaos is, however way you put it, sentient! Example; The powers of Chaos stole away the primarchs. This tells us two things. Chaos does things by purpose and chaos stand, somwhow, in opposition to the Emperor. Second: Being composed by several independent 'agents' does not make something uncatagorisable. It makes it more complex, and chaos is complex. Not even if the varrying agents war against each other does it make the entirety unpredictable. It just makes it harder to discern the predictable patterns ^_^ I think the confusion about what Chaos is the term 'chaotic', which is not entirely synonymous with unpredictability. Chaos is not random, no sentient creatures are, chaos is not unpredictable; its actions are determined by its wants and needs. It's just that Chaos is often associated with Chance... And that is a mistaken association. Chaos is unrestraint. But Order is not neccesarily a restraint. Chaos is nothing more than a different 'order' than that of the Emperor. It's an order where the strong rule supremly over the weak. But it is a cyclic order where there is posibility for change: The weak may in time become strong and thus the cycle continues. Chaos is not random change: It is the repitition of predictable changes, constituting an order of its own. Chaos is the survival of the fittest, and their unavoidable demise when something fitter eventually evolves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkApostle Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 I very much encourage everyone in here to read the Liber Chaotica if you have not done so already. Food for thought. Excellent thread Nihm, keep them comming. :ermm: TDA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Concensus appears to be that Chaos is by nature 'random', 'unpredictable' and 'the antithesis or Order'. Not quite random. Unpredictable perhaps. It's more like anarchy than randomness. Believe me nobody means random. B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malthe Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 Being 'unpredictable' rather than 'random' simply implies that the observer is unable to discern the patters of whatever is being done. The difference really is with the observer, not the object of observation. But I do believe that many people wrongly associates Chaos with Chance. The two things are not interchangable by any means! Anarchy however is close to what I attempted to describe in my last post. The rules are determined by whoever is strong enough to enforce them, for the time being. I think that's a pretty valid description of Chaos. @ TDA I'd love to read it, but it's damn expenssive and I haven't located someone willing to let me borrow it for more than a couple of minutes... sadly ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 I'd love to read it, but it's damn expenssive and I haven't located someone willing to let me borrow it for more than a couple of minutes... sadly ^_^ I have that same problem unfortunately. I think that most people when they see chaos they think of our world's definition and see it as random. Chaos isn't really random persay, definitely unpredictable but not random. I think there are a great many chaos generals/commanders who use unpredictable tactics to win their battles: using slaves to expose minefields, using terror as a weapon, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Being 'unpredictable' rather than 'random' simply implies that the observer is unable to discern the patters of whatever is being done.The difference really is with the observer, not the object of observation. But I do believe that many people wrongly associates Chaos with Chance. The two things are not interchangable by any means! Anarchy however is close to what I attempted to describe in my last post. The rules are determined by whoever is strong enough to enforce them, for the time being. I think that's a pretty valid description of Chaos. @ TDA I'd love to read it, but it's damn expenssive and I haven't located someone willing to let me borrow it for more than a couple of minutes... sadly ;) You are correct. Many people think chaos = random actions/events. Chaos certainly appears to be random but that is because by its nature it is chaotic... Which means it is hard to see the pattern and define it and because people can't see it they assume it is not there when in fact it is. Chaos has order but it is not an order of straight lines and geometric shapes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hytanthas Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Although its Sunday now but It represents Creative-Fun to me and a Challenge in Combat (I'm struggling with this 5th edition codex). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearingtheword Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Malthe, I think you have it pretty spot on as to what it is in 40k... though I think some of us were kind of extending or answers a bit beyond the scope of strictly 40k. It does frustrate me greatly when people try to pigeon-hole it into either: a ) Randomness b ) Evil or c ) an amalgamtion of both a and b. To me it is the fact that it is free of things such as moral constraints that makes it so appealing to play as. It is the antithesis of things having to be exactly the same way, the antithesis of being forced into conformity. That's probably part of the reason that I am also drawn to playing Space Wolves, as well as playing Chaos. They are a a very independent and anti-establishment chapter in my opinion. They value their freedom and independence. Anyhow, I know I am a tad tired and almost on that edge where I begin to ramble incoherently....so I'll stop for now :woot: ~BtW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted October 2, 2011 Author Share Posted October 2, 2011 Although its Sunday nowIt's good, these usually run until Sunday evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malthe Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Malthe, I think you have it pretty spot on as to what it is in 40k... though I think some of us were kind of extending or answers a bit beyond the scope of strictly 40k. ~BtW Oh, I didn't think of that, but of course that makes perfect sense :) I'm sorry if my post came of as a critique of other people's answers, it wasn't intended as such! Anyhow, thanks for the discussion, I really enjoyed the topic :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 I think most chaos followers are 'evil' in the sense that they want to enslave humanity and institute a proper Darwinian scale upon Joe Average Imperial Citizen...and Bill Rich and Affluent Imperial Citizen one and the same, and most non astartes would end up fodder/dead. Most people don't want to die/be physically harmed cause it's bad and hurts...so Chaos is inherently 'evil' because it's worshipers are big hulking brutes with spikes and or horns and various other mutations who want to murder/beat/rot/mindrape you for something you weren't responsible for because they are very sad/angry/indifferent about what happened over 10,000 years ago/are very dissatisfied with having been made near immortal super men who are living weapons to defend/protect normal humans in a hostile universe. They want their cake, the pie and to eat it all-they are entitled because "We built this imperium for you". News flash: Thats why you were made. That's why your daddy was made. That was the sole purpose of your life, sacrifice for the greater good of humanity, and you crapped it all away cause you were selfish. Space Marines are super humans-all of humanity's strengths and weaknesses, super sized. Chaos Space Marines are what happens when they stop taking the Kool Aid and get disgruntled about what's been done to them. It's very Star Wars Episode II, Whaaanikin "I should be all powerful!" what with having a laser sword, telekinesis and enhanced reflexes, they aren't satisfied with what they have in comparison to most other lifeforms in the galaxy. They latch onto the chaos 'gods' with hope that they will provide the answers to their questions, and most are deluded into believing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menkeroth Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Essentials've been said. But i still add my opinion ;) Chaos is absolute freedom of spirit and almost - of body. And many other things mentioned. For me firstly it's Divine Wind of Knowledge © :) and Change Incarnate. I think Tzeentch could say "... Ah, let's do be honest, shall we, in any halfway-civilized world i would be the only god" © :) But the choice is balanced, it's greatly showed in the game "Sacrifice". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artein Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Embodiment of emotions. Emotions without constraint. Every emotion. Love. Hate. Hope. Despair. Pleasure. Pain. Anger. Everything and nothing at the same time. Such powerful emotions that they can (and do) shape reality. This is Chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeller Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 The chance to walk your own path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 In terms of the denizens of the 40k world, I think Chaos represents a chance. Its a chance to be more than you are now, to have more than you do and to decide your own fate in a galaxy of repression and ignorance. Chaos is never a guarantee but to those who have no other options, a slim hope is better than nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possessed Marine Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Breaking the shackles of order. Freedom from the ignorance pushed by the blind masses. Freedom in general. Opposing those that would keep you down in the same pit that they've all been told that they should remain. Bucking the trend. Creating the new order, in your own image. Power. Truth. Life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 In character, it is humanity's undoing. It represents lack of self-control, unbridled emotions...especially the potentially destructive ones (fear, rage, despair, desire). Not just a lack of self-control...but also (and even more dangerous) a surrender of self-control. The canonical example, of course, is the decadent Eldar and their well-deserved (and terrible for us all) fall. Chaos is the storm of uncertainty and randomness within ourselves. Chaos is the very real consequence of our inability to understand ourselves. Chaos is our undoing. Out of character, chaos is a very necessary story device. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_Canoness Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 It is the dark side of humanity made manifest. When you can't control the madness, those who can control you. For the strong willed it is elevating, for everyone else it is soul-destroying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menkeroth Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 It is the dark side of humanity made manifest. I'm the Emperor's will made manifest! © :) You sound logically... I think madness and insanity're unavoidable on our path. Sometimes, maybe. But i also think it ain't necessary to succumb to madness to be filled with the Power of Chaos © We can sometimes go crazy but still withstand it when treading the path of Chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schultzhoffen Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Slavery. The lie of freedom and choice that enslaves. Choice - freedom. Agreed? Chaos seems to say "join us or die". Hardly freedom or choice (well, a marginal choice), is it? Besides, all 4 major powers are trapped in their own predictability. Khorne would be more interesting if he did something other than blood and war. See, he's a stereotype of a war god. A charicature at best. Martial honour? Really? Angron seemed nuts to me. Kharne killed his own people. I somehow don't see these guys not killing innocents. Wait..they have... Tzeench. Plans within plans till we all go crazy. Somewhat of a cartoon villain, don't you think. "See me twirl my moustache as I plot and laugh...bwahahahaha!" Mutation is an added bonus. Slaanesh. Desire. But to take by force. ie. Lack of choice as you are corrupted. Senusuality for its own sake. Trapped in a cycle. Slaanesh would be more interesting if it stood for marriage and moral virtue. What? It can't? Now who's trapped? Nurgle: Birth, rebirth, disease. The most interesting of all. More of a force than a sentient power although he has a sense of humour. At least, until billions of innocents die because of his little germs. Plus, why does he have to stink quite so bad. Bad boys don't bath, huh? Fat loser. Chaos is not life OR chance. Chaos is (ironically) trapped in its personality traits. Chaos is a (slightly) darker side of the Imperium. Ultimately Chaos desires destruction or devotion. Neither offers choice or freedom. Therefore, if you think freedom is good then Chaos is the epitome of evil because the choices Chaos gives you aren't choices at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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