Brother Ambroz Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Join us or die? Almost every legion that sided with chaos did so out of their own free will. The same with most chapters. That may be true for many mortals, IE the ones whose planets were conquered but that is hardly the majority. You're only thinking of the ones that worship a particular god. Other such as the undivided legions, are given free will to do whatever, worship chaos, infiltrate or just plain torture for fun. Sure those are the base emotions of each god but every emotion you can think of really can be traced down to their deepest roots to one of those emotions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schultzhoffen Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Essentially it is Join us or die. Else why did the traitor legions try to off the loyalists? Mortals/marines join because they desire something but are blinded by the dangers. Those who don't are considered the enemy and must be destroyed. If this weren't so we could all just get along... Just give peace a chance... My neighbour's a bloodletter... Interestingly enough, no slave to chaos chooses to spread goodwill and joy. A coincidence? I think not. There are more emotions than just those 4. Love, for example. Love of country, love for your children, love for your family. Love for the environment. Love for small, cute animals. Doesn't gel with Slaanesh (unless you're REALLY perverted). Nugle's love of germs doesn't count because love is essentially a nurturing emotion that does not destroy unless you're threatening to destroy the object of that love (my kids, for example -but I'm not going to kill you if you don't like my kids or might be unkind to them. Chaos, on the other hand...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possessed Marine Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 We don't spread goodwill due to the fact that it's overrated. :yes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Essentially it is Join us or die. Else why did the traitor legions try to off the loyalists? Mortals/marines join because they desire something but are blinded by the dangers. Those who don't are considered the enemy and must be destroyed. If this weren't so we could all just get along... Why did they try to off the loyalists? Because they were wronged/betrayed and the loyalists stood in their way. Of course we're not likeable/loveable like most loyalists are, that's our main attraction I think. Some join because they desire something yes but most just do it out of the freedom it brings. No longer having to submit geneseed to the mechanicum, no longer needing to let your brothers die to protect worthless mortals you don't care about, the freedom to do what you want. You don't have to follow a god or worship them at all. There are more emotions than just those 4. Love, for example. Love of country, love for your children, love for your family. Love for the environment. Love for small, cute animals. Doesn't gel with Slaanesh (unless you're REALLY perverted). Nugle's love of germs doesn't count because love is essentially a nurturing emotion that does not destroy unless you're threatening to destroy the object of that love (my kids, for example -but I'm not going to kill you if you don't like my kids or might be unkind to them. Chaos, on the other hand...) In my opinion, (may just be that I'm pretty :D up myself) but love of country can usually be traced back to pride (which is one of Khorne's virtues). Love for your family/children can be linked to papa Nurgle. He is very paternal, his diseases may seem virulent to the naked eye but in reality he's only making his servants/children stronger. A great unclean one will be very angry if someone hurts his little minions. Alot of people are attracted to Nurgle for the simple reason that he loves his servants unlike the other gods. Really I think you misunderstand us. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Enoch Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Love, love, love. Love is all you need. It all comes down to love: Love of bloodshed. Love of pleasure. Love of life (death and rebirth). Love of knowledge. It is a constant struggle. A war. And, here in the grim dark future, isn't that all there is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ammonius Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Essentially it is Join us or die. You mean like the Great Crusade? ;) Just saying, Chaos doesn't have a monopoly on expansonist xenophobia with a side order of bloodshed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcAwsome Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Join us or die? Almost every legion that sided with chaos did so out of their own free will. I dissagree with this. The Legions are pretty much mentally enslaved clones that follow in their Primarch's footsteps, at at first. They copy everything from their Primarch. As the Primarch is corrupted, so are they. Until the Primarch leaves them through death or daemonhood, the space marines just follow their orders or what they think their primarch would do, no matter the consequences. Once the Primarch leaves, then yes, it's up to them. But what if they're corrupted by then? You're a traitor who's lost his father or god, now you have new gods in your head and corruption in your genes. Can you really break free afterwards? Especially if you're from an original legion and have been in the eye of terror for who knows how long? As for the Primarchs, a couple faced Chaos with a Join us or Die situation before they became corrupted didn't they? The Night Lord Primarch was the only one that chose to die, others choosing to become enslaved by Chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Yes and no. Like I said, some of them did, IE Tsons, DG and the EC somewhat. Most of the undivided legions did so out of free will. Especially the WB. You've got a valid point though many did so because of their Primarch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larkyn Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Chaos to me means a Codex that tastes like vanilla. Seriously. I licked my Chaos codex once, and it tasted like vanilla. No joke. I was like :huh: ^_^ :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafen_2 Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Just like the dark side of the force both get cooler armor and lightning abilities. ^_^ Actually thinking about it both are pretty similiar as they both deal with our basic human emotions as others have said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horus722 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 I'm new to the game and was drawn to Chaos for one reason. The freedom to do and make whatever I wanted. To me no other army is as flexible as a Chaos army. We can slaughter in close combat or sit back and shoot. Its that raw unmatched power that makes me love Chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorandius Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 There have been quite poetic responses here, both succinct and at length. The beauty of Chaos is that it is...beautiful. Unique. Room for infinitessimal individuality. Chaos gives us the choice and freedom to enhance ourselves. Our potential, our innate nature and that which drives us. Survival. To show us how human we really are and then increase those aspects within us that are strongest. To varying degrees, humanity itself is chaotic, for there are representations of all known aspects everywhere. Death, life, violence, hate, love, etc etc. When I think of Chaos, I think of the universe and all that has been wrought from it. The stars, planets, asteroids, black holes and of course organisms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearingtheword Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 I have to agree with Ammonius in his post above... Chaos did not by any means monopolize the whole "Join us or die!" thing. In the fluff I have read it has kinda pissed me off that that was the way the Emperor was with his crusade/conquest. If you read the stories of how he was on Terra you see that he obliterated any who disagreed with him, be it other nations, religions or individuals. Then when the Crusade went to space and he came across a "lost world" then they too were given the choice to "Join us or die!", and as consequence many worlds were destroyed. Pick up Tales of Heresy for a few good examples. That type of behaviour is one of the things that has kind of turned me off to playing the Imperium forces. It amazes me how many "Imperial fan-boyz" fail to see how oppressive, and dare I say fascist, the Emperor and his regime actually are/were. Seriously. It amazes me....LOL. ;) ~BtW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yogi Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Chaos is the indiscriminate weapon, wielded by the wronged. The price is of course, the enslavement of your soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spafe Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I'm a hard working individual, I work at the factory preducing arms and ammo for my lords. I have a family. I am a religous man, I pray regualary to my chosen deity. I am content. Then suddenly, WAR! the planet is under threat. This world of mine is judged by the great enemy to be a military asset, worth taking by force. The invaders will offer no mercy, no understanding for our ways, in fact they have an understanding and they HATE us. I must protect my family, my world, give support to my lords who have looked after and protected me, do my part. My god commands it, My superiors command it, My loyalty commands it! I grab a lasgun and join the defences, fanaticle and with zeal in my belly, WE WILL DEFEND OUR HOME AND BRING GLORY TO OUR GOD!!! The above could be written by an imperial citizen, who worships the emp in his cultural way, lives a life of servitude, giving daily prayers, hearing no answer beyond his local preacher, but is content and will do his part when the forces of choas come to strike out at the imperium. The above could also be written by a worker who lives within the eye on a world owned by (for instance) the black legion. He serves his legion, worships the gods of choas, and is answered by minor gifts, and boons. He will be able to occisonally see minor icons of his gods PHYSICALLY MANIFEST! He will see proof of his gods existance. A imperial space marine force and combined guard regiments attack in order to reduce balck legions resource, he will fight to do his part, with fire in his belly! Aint perspective fun :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 The Magnus situation wasn't really Join us or die was it? It was the Emperor turning to his pet wolf (Russ) "Sic 'em boy" and forcing Magnus to join them or die. That one's definately on the big E. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saa Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 The Magnus situation wasn't really Join us or die was it? It was the Emperor turning to his pet wolf (Russ) "Sic 'em boy" and forcing Magnus to join them or die. That one's definately on the big E. :D Not as cut and dry in my opinion as you also have to consider that Magnus had made his pact with Tzeentch to stall the flesh change within the 1k sons and Tzeentch was ending his part of the bargain. Magnus didn't want his precious sons to degenerate into swirly whirly flesh bags again so he threw his lot in with Tzeentch to prevent it, especially as he now had the 'wolf at the door' That is a little 'join us or die' :D Saa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 That's more of a "join me and I'll save you" kind of deal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saa Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 That's more of a "join me and I'll save you" kind of deal... Sure cos Tzeentch is well known for his altruistic deeds...... <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Better to take a crappy deal that to be killed by the space puppies... If it was a "join us or die" kind of deal it would be russ that was giving it...Tzeentch at least gave them the illusion of choice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schultzhoffen Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 I think that part of the problem in trying to compare Chaos with the Imperium is that many assume the Imperium is good. Its not. Not really. However, Chaos is not even slightly good. Its not about freedom, its all about slavery (Slaves to Chaos. Was that the title?). Sure, the Imperium is slavery, too, but Chaos ain't the solution. Its the fire to the frying pan. Chaos is all about lies and slavery. The Imperium is all about slavery and lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Exactly, Chaos and the Imperium are just nuances on the big galactic moral greyscale! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith Aznable Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Chaos is all about lies and slavery. The Imperium is all about slavery and lies. Is that like the difference between "brutal cunning" and "cunning brutality"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 What is Chaos? Warp don't hurt me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possessed Marine Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Chaos is all about lies and slavery. The Imperium is all about slavery and lies. Is that like the difference between "brutal cunning" and "cunning brutality"? no, it's like the difference between vanilla and french vanilla. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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