[GK] vs. Missle Launcher Spam

[ChaosPhoenix]

I Need help vs. Missle launcher spam with pure grey knights. It gives me a hard time and if I roll below average cover saves, it's even worse. I could have used outflanking paladins, but I usually need more scoring units. I'm starting to babble. Help.

[the jeske]

. you can play a draigowing and ignore a lot of the str 8ap3 shots . you can play a puri build and actualy out shot your opponent . your rhinos and most important your razors can ignore stuns/shakes , so RL only work on them when they blow them up . you could even play a lot of Nemzis DK and scout +teleport charge the RL units turn 1 .

 

Which kind of build are we talking about here ?

[lordsloth]

GKT troops, though people seem to dislike those in general.

Paladins I wouldnt advise personally as they dont get FNP or multiple wounds against missile. (And im not a fan of them anyway, but thats a whole other thing)

Though in the end I'd just go for librarian(s) with the shrouding to make your cover saves more awesome.

[greatcrusade08]

Sw usually go for ML spam, theres a chap locally who is builidng a long fang las spam unit to help counter driagowing.. personally i think long fangs are overused, but thats a fault of the codex writers and WAAC gamers IMO

[antique_nova]

Ahhh. i am the right person to ask ass that what i keep repeatidly playing in 1750 points and he kept getting first turn. Just advances towards and try to hug cover. Having lots of bodies helps over having fewer bodies.

 

What models and points level are you using? Because the tactics vary depending on who you face and what points level it is.

 

thanks

antique_nova

[ChaosPhoenix]

I'll be a little more precise this time. I shouldn't post, if I'm tired and confused B). I'm playing 1750 points most of the time and pure Grey Knights at the moment. I want some Inquisition (since it's a great show :D), but later. I was using my "test stuff" list, because I still need to know, how the new codex works. I was using 2x 10 Strike Knights in Rhinos with max PsyCannons, 10 Purifiers with max PsyCannons in a Rhino, a Vindicare Assassin and 5 Paladins with a GM & Libby to hold the midfield. Nothing special or really optimised.

We were playing Capture and Hold with Dawn of War. I don't know, if thats the correct name, because I haven't got an english core rulebook. It was the mission combination with two objectives and only 2 Troop choices on the field. I gave the Paladins the ability to score, which was bad because I didn't need another scoring unit. Scout would have saved me a lot of trouble. The terrain was a bit difficult, I had to deploy the Paladins in line of sight of the 10 missle launchers. The bad thing was, I rolled four 1s when making my armor saves in the first round. The rest of the army performed is expected, I lost many Grey Knights due to massed fire, but dished a lot more out in return. The vindicare assassin never hit anything, although I used his BS 8 reroll.

I had a different problem with my Purifiers. I shot and charged in a 10 men Wolfsquad. The problem was, I nearly vaporized them with shooting. So they failed their panic test and ran. There I was, standing in the open, getting shot by the most durable Land Speeder which didn't want to be destroyed by PsyCannons before and Wolfguards with CML.

 

In addition to a feeling of below average rolling, the game left me with 3 things. A fear of Missle Launchers with my Paladins, the question if I should use Interceptors or a Dread Knight and the question, if I should use a smaller squad of Purifiers.

 

Thanks for all your replies so far.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

If it is really a big problem then go all pally and GKT.

 

G :woot:

[the jeske]

why arent you using 2-3 rifleman . you should be using them even at 1500.

[nurglez]

not everyone has, or wants to use 2-3 riflemen. Some of us may find that really boring.

[ChaosPhoenix]

not everyone has, or wants to use 2-3 riflemen. Some of us may find that really boring.

 

yeah that's it, at least for the moment. I really find missle spam or missle equivalent spam boring. Even my other Marine armies rarely use more than 4 Missle Launchers. Furthermore I really have an aversion against missles in 40k in general. I don't know why. I love Plasma, Flamers and Bolters of any kind :). So I try to find other ways to play and thats what I want to do here.

 

I think an Intercepter Squad and a Dreadknight might be able to shut the Longfangs down. They might even be able to beat them in melee, because Longfangs only have one attack each.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

Except the sergeant, who can take a power fist (although let's be honest, nobody does).

[Reclusiarch Darius]

There are a couple of things which make missile spam Long Fangs relatively worthless;

 

- Librarian with Shrouding: Makes zeh missiles bounce off your smoked/hull down transports, and if you hide PsyDreads behind said transports or other LOS-blocking terrain, you can improve their survivability as well (combined with 'Fortitude' this renders all but outright destruction meaningless). He's good for shutting down Rune Priests as well, and his other powers are very useful (in particular 'Sanctuary').

 

- Dreadknights: 2+ armour and multiple wounds means krak warheads just bounce off him. Lascannon is unlikely to be available in sufficient quantity to down him either (plasma and high-Strength power weapons are his true nemesis). I've run the gauntlet of IG and Tau gunlines with mine before. If nothing else, he'll absorb every pack's shooting for an entire turn, as even on one wound he will slaughter Long Fangs if they don't kill him fast enough (and his teleporter makes pinning him down with Grey Hunters or Wolf Guard very difficult).

 

- PsyDreads and Razorbacks: Combined with 'Shrouding', these guys pump out firepower and take multiple krak hits to kill reliably. Knights scale pretty well went it comes to armour, and we're not forced to tie one squad to each transport (as Strike squads can just Deep Strike where needed, whilst their Razorback sits in the backline).

 

- Terminator blob: Like the Dreadknight, their efficiency per shot is pathetic, and even firing all three packs at the one Terminator squad is unlikely to generate more than a handful of casualties (which means nothing, because the Terminators don't stop being a threat until they're down to less than 5 man). Again, as a wound soaker, they will ensure other things remain unmolested, so when paired with a Dreadknight or PsyDreads you're forcing your opponent to make some tough choices.

 

- Redeemer: This is more for Henchmen forces (with the obligatory DCA hedge-trimmer unit), but for those rare people who take it with normal Knights (and maybe want to mobilise a Paladin or hacky Purifier squad), same principle applies. Krak and lascannon are pretty close to useless against a Redeemer ('Fortitude' again pays dividends), and by the time meltas are in position to intercept and destroy it (again, 'Fortitude' making all but outright destruction pointless), you're already delivered the cargo into their lines.

 

Lascannon Long Fangs are rarer, and pure lascannon spam I've never seen (people usually mix up plasma cannons so they can split fire and still hurt infantry). That said, if they are heavily invested in so much ranged AP2, a Grandmaster for Outflanking your guys would help (instead of 2-3 salvoes, they get one then die horribly).

[ChaosPhoenix]

Yes I might include a Dreadknight for the Missle Spammers. Since I have a tendency to roll One's, I'm a little hesitant to put my Paladins in harms way. A DK has at least more wounds ;)

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Haha I know that feel man. Best armour save in the game...roll four 1's out of 6 saves.

 

Dreadknights are stupidly tough. I've had mine go toe to toe with an Emperor's Champion and an entire Crusader squad. Ate the Champ in the first round of combat (never leave home without greatsword), then took two powerfist wounds from the squad before stomping the rest dead in the next two rounds. Last wound was from a krak rocket launched from his Typhoon (rolled a 1 like clockwork, down he went).

[nurglez]

I've had mixed luck with DK's, had them die to lascannon spam, and then had them shrug off everything thrown at them for 2 turns in a different game. I love them. I've lost so many vehicles to 1 lucky hit, while 4 wound MC's usually take a pounding and keep on kicking. Shunting interceptors could pull the same trick, I reckon a combination of a shunting DK and interceptors to be the best way to take them, but I haven't used any power armoured grey knights yet...

[ChaosPhoenix]

I've had mixed luck with DK's, had them die to lascannon spam, and then had them shrug off everything thrown at them for 2 turns in a different game. I love them. I've lost so many vehicles to 1 lucky hit, while 4 wound MC's usually take a pounding and keep on kicking. Shunting interceptors could pull the same trick, I reckon a combination of a shunting DK and interceptors to be the best way to take them, but I haven't used any power armoured grey knights yet...

 

I've used PAGK and even though I've played the old GK, I was supprised how much firepower they dished out. They die like normal marines, it even hurts a bit more :P but they can share the pain. If I include Interceptors and/ or DKs, I have to use a Grandmaster, otherwise I think I have too few scoring units. I would like to have at least 3 scoring units at 1750pts., what do you think? Another point sink is, I'm using PsyBolt Ammo on PAGKs which seems to work well because I can kill more marines and shoot Rhinos in the front armor.

[nurglez]

and now you come to the main problem when writing grey knight lists. So many cool toys, you cant afford them all!

 

remember you can combat squad your strike squads, and also hold them back and deep strike them in. depending on how your opponent deploys, you could deepstrike some combat squaded squads in on his long fangs and shoot them (depending on the mission etc).

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

It takes awhile to develop an effective list because most units are pricy. Just mess around and experiment - eventually you'll find a build that suits you. :)

 

G :)

[ChaosPhoenix]

It takes awhile to develop an effective list because most units are pricy. Just mess around and experiment - eventually you'll find a build that suits you. :)

 

G

 

Yes you're right. I don't like WAAC lists or Stelek's way of playing, but I'm always open for advice. I can't play on a regular basis at the moment (I just became a history professor :D), so I like to use other people experience as well. You've all helped a lot so far. I've made a new list, which is very different from my old one. I feel really naked without my Librarian, but maybe it will actually not change that much, when I'm playing. http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=239689

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I've had mixed luck with DK's, had them die to lascannon spam, and then had them shrug off everything thrown at them for 2 turns in a different game. I love them. I've lost so many vehicles to 1 lucky hit, while 4 wound MC's usually take a pounding and keep on kicking. Shunting interceptors could pull the same trick, I reckon a combination of a shunting DK and interceptors to be the best way to take them, but I haven't used any power armoured grey knights yet...

 

Thing is though, a Dreadknight doesn't really need support. He's big and scary enough to draw irrational amounts of fire (in almost every game, as soon as I commit with him, entire armies empty their guns at him), and he's going to die (either from AP2 or from being mobbed). Interceptors are a bit pricy for what they do, and without a GM they're another non-scoring investment. I prefer just dropping in Strike squads where needed, jump infantry movement is something I don't see a need for on shooty units.

 

I've used PAGK and even though I've played the old GK, I was supprised how much firepower they dished out. They die like normal marines, it even hurts a bit more but they can share the pain. If I include Interceptors and/ or DKs, I have to use a Grandmaster, otherwise I think I have too few scoring units. I would like to have at least 3 scoring units at 1750pts., what do you think? Another point sink is, I'm using PsyBolt Ammo on PAGKs which seems to work well because I can kill more marines and shoot Rhinos in the front armor.

 

Don't get too hung up on scoring units. It's important to have them, and every loss is painful, but you also need to kill stuff :) . You won't generally have the points for more than one Terminator blob, and Strike squads are a diminishing return on investment past 2 squads (ie they don't get any better the more you take, like Tactical squads). Psy-bolt is not something I usually buy, except maybe on Terminator blob, because they only have two psycannons. S4 is sufficient in most cases

 

remember you can combat squad your strike squads, and also hold them back and deep strike them in. depending on how your opponent deploys, you could deepstrike some combat squaded squads in on his long fangs and shoot them (depending on the mission etc).

 

It would be feeding them to the meatgrinder really. Sure, you might maul them with shooting, but then you'll get ganked by a nearby pack of Wolf Guard or Grey Hunters, looking for revenge. It would depend on the mission, whether you risk them or not.

 

I don't like WAAC lists

 

You mean every army list? 'WAAC' doesn't mean anything, everyone plays to win. It just seems like an arbitrary tag people attach to lists or gamers that are deemed (rightly or wrongly) 'overpowered'. Stelek is an idiot, and he does write troll lists (ie purposely seeking to break the mechanics of the game), but what he doesn't isn't really that different to everyone else.

[NeoSamurai]

could try deep striking everything in after using empty rhinos to form a LoS cover or as decoys. ram those suckers as close as possible, drop in and fire from cover. if the missiles are firing from vehicles, it means moving them from assault distance or they can get munched up.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

That sounds like a very interesting strategy. I like it.

 

G :lol:

[NeoSamurai]

That sounds like a very interesting strategy. I like it.

 

G :down:

 

thanks.

 

It's a strategy I was toying with for my Black Templar army only without the decoy and deep-strike aspect--before they changed smoke-launcher rules on 'em. Never really had the chance to try it out :-/ seems like it'd be great for a deep strike army. might have to try it myself when I'm not trying to build an effective GK stormraven army.