sponsra Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Obviously A D-B is doing a short story for The primarchs about Konrad Curze. Didn't know he was gonna be ib it. See here: http://aarondembskibowden.wordpress.com/ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239641-a-d-b-in-the-primarchs/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Good. We may catch a glimpse of Konrad before he was utterly consumed by hate and had a healthier mind (relatively). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239641-a-d-b-in-the-primarchs/#findComment-2891031 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 It can't be any worse than his A D-B's portrayal of Kurze in Soul Hunter and Blood Reaver, pretty awful. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239641-a-d-b-in-the-primarchs/#findComment-2891120 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lorne Walkier Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 It can't be any worse than his A D-B's portrayal of Kurze in Soul Hunter and Blood Reaver, pretty awful. As i remember these accounts were after Kruze let him self go. I think awful is a bit harsh. In Savage Weapons Kruze was a bit more cool. From what i have seen so far this book has great potential. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239641-a-d-b-in-the-primarchs/#findComment-2891130 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrannicide Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 It can't be any worse than his A D-B's portrayal of Kurze in Soul Hunter and Blood Reaver, pretty awful. ;) Believe me, I feel that credit is due where credit is due. Certainly there's no reason to praise someone over mediocrity. Practically everyone and their pet monkey is on the AD-B train, as of late - but there's a reason for that. Where as other authors employed by BL face a multitude of criticisms, AD-B has managed to create compelling tales and has earned a spot as one of their premier writers. His fiction seems to capture the mainstream views of 40k and bring them to life. McNeil, Swallow, or even Abnett at times are accused of only understanding how to write certain factions, but AD-B writes with a broader approach that wins readers approval, and rightfully so. His portrayal of the Astartes may not please every single person, but the man knows character development. It's one of his strongpoints. I saw a solid execution of a broken and damned Primarch in his Konrad Kurze. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239641-a-d-b-in-the-primarchs/#findComment-2891138 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zincite Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 It can't be any worse than his A D-B's portrayal of Kurze in Soul Hunter and Blood Reaver, pretty awful. I'd actually agree in those books. The character just didn't seem to be a character. No depth to the man. However, having a whole short story about him instead of just a few paragraphs will probably fix that nicely. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239641-a-d-b-in-the-primarchs/#findComment-2891169 Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 It's a tough call. I find a broken, ruined, bleeding god hollowed by hatred, misguided ideals of justice, and betrayals he's imagined to be much, much more interesting and realistic than "He was a Chaos guy, and a normal guy, teehee multiple personalities" as we've seen in the past. Zincite, when you're seeing him in his final moments, as the characters in those books were, he was hardly at his best. He was wormed through by Chaos, driving him to madness and ruin, whether he knew it or not. You're hardly going to get in-depth character information from a few seconds of characters (that Curze himself hates and/or barely remembers) watching him have no control over himself. Those scenes aren't about Curze. They're about other characters' perspectives seeing Curze for a brief flash of vision, from their points of view. To say he got no character development is like watching an old man soiling himself and saying "Wait, I thought he was a badass warrior, and this story was about all the girls he got." Those books aren't that story. They have no need to be, either. Yeah. He was a badass. Those books weren't about those times in his life. Not everything needs to a Bible of comprehensive, unrelated information and lore. Sometimes, characters aren't seeing the whole picture. When you see your granddad, you're not seeing him in his heyday. Or do you think he was always that old, that sexless, that slow? Sometimes, as I look soulfully into the evening sky and muse over the tides of destiny, I suspect there'll be a day when I'm inevitably driven to never type another word about 40K. On that day, it will be these perspectives I miss the least, because in addition to their (thankful) rarity, they also make the least sense in terms of criticism. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239641-a-d-b-in-the-primarchs/#findComment-2891180 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkapostle222 Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Sometimes, as I look soulfully into the evening sky and muse over the tides of destiny, I suspect there'll be a day when I'm inevitably driven to never type another word about 40K. On that day, it will be these perspectives I miss the least, because in addition to their (thankful) rarity, they also make the least sense in terms of criticism. That will be a sad day indeed. ^_^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239641-a-d-b-in-the-primarchs/#findComment-2891185 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gulag Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 It's a tough call. I find a broken, ruined, bleeding god hollowed by hatred, misguided ideals of justice, and betrayals he's imagined to be much, much more interesting and realistic than "He was a Chaos guy, and a normal guy, teehee multiple personalities" as we've seen in the past. Zincite, when you're seeing him in his final moments, as the characters in those books were, he was hardly at his best. He was wormed through by Chaos, driving him to madness and ruin, whether he knew it or not. You're hardly going to get in-depth character information from a few seconds of characters (that Curze himself hates and/or barely remembers) watching him have no control over himself. Those scenes aren't about Curze. They're about other characters' perspectives seeing Curze for a brief flash of vision, from their points of view. To say he got no character development is like watching an old man soiling himself and saying "Wait, I thought he was a badass warrior, and this story was about all the girls he got." Those books aren't that story. They have no need to be, either. Yeah. He was a badass. Those books weren't about those times in his life. Not everything needs to a Bible of comprehensive, unrelated information and lore. Sometimes, characters aren't seeing the whole picture. When you see your granddad, you're not seeing him in his heyday. Or do you think he was always that old, that sexless, that slow? Sometimes, as I look soulfully into the evening sky and muse over the tides of destiny, I suspect there'll be a day when I'm inevitably driven to never type another word about 40K. On that day, it will be these perspectives I miss the least, because in addition to their (thankful) rarity, they also make the least sense in terms of criticism. Well, I happen to enjoy your work with Curze. How broken he is and, like you said, hollowed out. Its a nice characterization for a character and legion that in prior works was a little flat for my tastes. I equally liked your portrayal of the Lion in Savage Weapons and how he had once considered Curze the brother closest to his own mind because of their similar development in childhood. It was a nice touch and it makes lots of sense to me. So, not everyone is on the 'dump on A D-B' train. ^_^ my two cents. Edit: I also had not noticed that you did One Hate and At Gaius Point. I really liked both of those as well, especially At Gaius Point. Another two cents :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239641-a-d-b-in-the-primarchs/#findComment-2891205 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vazzy Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 It can't be any worse than his A D-B's portrayal of Kurze in Soul Hunter and Blood Reaver, pretty awful. I thought he was cool in Savage Weapons personally. I mean not as cool as the Lion, but cool nonetheless Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239641-a-d-b-in-the-primarchs/#findComment-2891208 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 It can't be any worse than his A D-B's portrayal of Kurze in Soul Hunter and Blood Reaver, pretty awful. ^_^ Believe me, I feel that credit is due where credit is due. Certainly there's no reason to praise someone over mediocrity. Practically everyone and their pet monkey is on the AD-B train, as of late - but there's a reason for that. Where as other authors employed by BL face a multitude of criticisms, AD-B has managed to create compelling tales and has earned a spot as one of their premier writers. His fiction seems to capture the mainstream views of 40k and bring them to life. McNeil, Swallow, or even Abnett at times are accused of only understanding how to write certain factions, but AD-B writes with a broader approach that wins readers approval, and rightfully so. His portrayal of the Astartes may not please every single person, but the man knows character development. It's one of his strongpoints. I saw a solid execution of a broken and damned Primarch in his Konrad Kurze. I am a huge fan of his, he knows it, we have spoken about it. My beef is with his portrayal of Kurze in the two books i said, nothing else. It's a tough call. I find a broken, ruined, bleeding god hollowed by hatred, misguided ideals of justice, and betrayals he's imagined to be much, much more interesting and realistic than "He was a Chaos guy, and a normal guy, teehee multiple personalities" as we've seen in the past. If he was that feeble he should have killed himself or one of his Legion should have finished him off, quite frankly he was never fit to lead a Legion. Yeah. He was a badass. Those books weren't about those times in his life. Not everything needs to a Bible of comprehensive, unrelated information and lore. Sometimes, characters aren't seeing the whole picture. When you see your granddad, you're not seeing him in his heyday. Or do you think he was always that old, that sexless, that slow? All we get about the history of Kurze is his faults, i haven't seen anything that deals with how good he actually was at his role, infact i haven't read anything that even remotely details a real campaign of terror of the Night Lords. Sometimes, as I look soulfully into the evening sky and muse over the tides of destiny, I suspect there'll be a day when I'm inevitably driven to never type another word about 40K. On that day, it will be these perspectives I miss the least, because in addition to their (thankful) rarity, they also make the least sense in terms of criticism. Criticism is part of life mate. When you get pounced on by a load of spotty teenagers on forums and the like that don't like how your ideas fit with theirs, remember one thing, you chose to write 40k material and so you should know what the majority of your audience is like. As for the rest of us, we love your books the characters and the plots but some of us don't like a few bits here and there, like i said about your portrayal of Kurze in the two books. What makes you better than all the other BL authors is that you take the time to speak to us and actually express your thought patterns and ideas, you should take more positives than negatives. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239641-a-d-b-in-the-primarchs/#findComment-2891216 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMan Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Without wanting to jump on the brown-nosing bandwagon, i loved Curze in Savage Weapons. Can't wait for a HH Night Lords novel, now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239641-a-d-b-in-the-primarchs/#findComment-2891233 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForTheLion Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 I wish the dark angels would get an actual book one of these days...after descent of angels i almost poke my eyes out. Where as savage weapons showed both The Lion and the Haunter in awesome aspects, i honestly wish wed get a book by ADB about the lion... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239641-a-d-b-in-the-primarchs/#findComment-2891345 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkchild130 Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 In NL novels I see curze as a plot device to set up the character of talos. Its not about curze so I dont care about his character development. I would feel different if the story was specifically about him. Darkchild Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239641-a-d-b-in-the-primarchs/#findComment-2891349 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Yeah. He was a badass. Those books weren't about those times in his life. Not everything needs to a Bible of comprehensive, unrelated information and lore. Sometimes, characters aren't seeing the whole picture. When you see your granddad, you're not seeing him in his heyday. Or do you think he was always that old, that sexless, that slow? All we get about the history of Kurze is his faults, i haven't seen anything that deals with how good he actually was at his role, infact i haven't read anything that even remotely details a real campaign of terror of the Night Lords. To be fair all we've seen of Kurze is him towards the end of his life in a couple of pages in Soul Hunter and Blood Reaver, and in a short story where he wasn't the main character. I'm sure in time his character will be explored more and more positives will come to light (dark). We know that he raised himself and turned an entire planetary society from that of a corrupt, gang-ruled hell hole into a society where the citizens are too scared to break the law. Even though it didn't last (which it couldn't really unless Kurze went back to the planet every few years) that's one hell of an achievement, and more than some of the other Primarchs did. That shows that he was good he was at his role, he was made to be a weapon of Fear/Justice, and the Night Lords were used as a weapon of fear to make sure conquered planets didn't rebel and taxes were paid. Rebellions would stop completely if there was even a rumour of Night Lord retaliation. Although I agree with you that we haven't seen Kurze at his peak or a full Night Lord campaign of Terror, it's easy to see how good Kurze was at his role. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239641-a-d-b-in-the-primarchs/#findComment-2891398 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkapostle222 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 I wish the dark angels would get an actual book one of these days...after descent of angels i almost poke my eyes out. Where as savage weapons showed both The Lion and the Haunter in awesome aspects, i honestly wish wed get a book by ADB about the lion... To be honest I think a lot of people want ADB to do a book about their favorite primarchs :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239641-a-d-b-in-the-primarchs/#findComment-2891426 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lorne Walkier Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Yeah. He was a badass. Those books weren't about those times in his life. Not everything needs to a Bible of comprehensive, unrelated information and lore. Sometimes, characters aren't seeing the whole picture. When you see your granddad, you're not seeing him in his heyday. Or do you think he was always that old, that sexless, that slow? All we get about the history of Kurze is his faults, i haven't seen anything that deals with how good he actually was at his role, infact i haven't read anything that even remotely details a real campaign of terror of the Night Lords. To be fair all we've seen of Kurze is him towards the end of his life in a couple of pages in Soul Hunter and Blood Reaver, and in a short story where he wasn't the main character. I'm sure in time his character will be explored more and more positives will come to light (dark). Although I agree with you that we haven't seen Kurze at his peak or a full Night Lord campaign of Terror, it's easy to see how good Kurze was at his role. There is a good description of Kruze in the Dark King audio story. It is also a good example of how the Night Lords used terror in the Crusade. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239641-a-d-b-in-the-primarchs/#findComment-2891462 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 All we get about the history of Kurze is his faults, i haven't seen anything that deals with how good he actually was at his role, infact i haven't read anything that even remotely details a real campaign of terror of the Night Lords. This is actually a very good point. Although not traditionally a fan of NL (general terror image was fine but the lightnings on the armour & the helmet bat wings looked silly to me) I've grown an interest in them after the ADB books, short stories and audio... So Curze's depiction is mostly Heresy / early post Heresy era where he is already way down to the path of damnation (well he's there already). But it would be awesome to see a Great Crusade type of novel -a prequel of sorts - just to get a measure of awesomeness for Curze in his area of expertize in the good days. In fact this applies for the Lion too. We get the reputation but we have yet to see him conduct a successful full scale campain against a worthy foe. A Xeno enemy would be preferable to me ;). Anyway, I get what ADB says about grandfathers and such. I just wish we are the sort of grandchildren that stumble on the old attic chest which is full evidence that the grandad was a war hero, was getting all the girls and mastered the atomic energy on his lunch time! :) EDIT: Dark King was quite enjoyable and informative story for its size... I say let's have more of that! EDIT 2: I transfered my comments on the art in the relevant thread... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239641-a-d-b-in-the-primarchs/#findComment-2891493 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons of Horus Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 I'm just happy that Curze will finally get a story... and ADB is the one writing it ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239641-a-d-b-in-the-primarchs/#findComment-2891496 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynic Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 In NL novels I see curze as a plot device to set up the character of talos. Its not about curze so I dont care about his character development. I would feel different if the story was specifically about him. Darkchild +1 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239641-a-d-b-in-the-primarchs/#findComment-2891541 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrion Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Again, without wanting to brown nose, I think the depictions of Kurze have been pretty spot on in the context of the stories. We do need more info about why he became the way he did, but thats not for the characters in Soul Hunter to say. The whole legion has a fairly low opinion of itself anyway, and whilst there hasn't been much in the way of terrorising yet, they did blow up their homeworld to prove a point, martyring a piece of itself. Thats pretty much terrorism. It's all out of perspective though - like bad kids blaming their terrible life on their angry dad. You have the POV of the bad kids, but not the angry dad. Cruze was never a good dad to begin with, but we haven't found out why yet, only that he wasn't, but Soul Hunter happens long after the fact and that alone presents a skewed perspective. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239641-a-d-b-in-the-primarchs/#findComment-2891575 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyall Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 To say we have no information on Night Haunter's 'good times' is not that accurate. There just weren't ever any good times for him. We hear of Dorn's and Guilliman's battles a lot because they were loyal generals. We hear little of the Night Lords' great contribution to the Crusade (no sarcasm here, it had to be great or the Emperor would come crashing down) because Curze was a conflicted role-model. We all know hewas a badass of a warrior. He single-handedly "bat"-enforced the law upon a whole planet. But he couldn't keep that order in check, and that was one of the many things that cemented his most distinct trait: He saw too much. He saw both sides of a conflict for what they were. The rebels were being corrupted and the loyalists were being driven by lies. Before that, he saw a world pacified by extreme violence recede to its criminal ways. A man with little purpose in the middle of two extreme factions, he was, devoid of real loyalty before or after the Heresy...he pretty much just went with the flow, playing his role of Night Haunter. When I read Sevatar's speech ADB showed a while ago, I thought it was Curze speaking. It displayed the same cynicism. I'm actually glad we get mostly glimpses of Night Haunter's descent. Look at an exception, the time he clashed with the Lion. I knew Jonson was in for a fight, but to hear Curze gloat and speak like he was sure of something sounds so false it hurts. That nature of his just kind of empties his feats, even if his prowess is there. So we know just enough about him. 40K is about acts, legends and revelations, most of all. Let the Night Haunter be under wraps, the way he likes it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239641-a-d-b-in-the-primarchs/#findComment-2891641 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 In NL novels I see curze as a plot device to set up the character of talos. Its not about curze so I dont care about his character development. I would feel different if the story was specifically about him. So Talos's character is purely set up by negative views on his Primarch then, because that is all we read about as i said before. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239641-a-d-b-in-the-primarchs/#findComment-2891645 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zincite Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 incite, when you're seeing him in his final moments, as the characters in those books were, he was hardly at his best. He was wormed through by Chaos, driving him to madness and ruin, whether he knew it or not. You're hardly going to get in-depth character information from a few seconds of characters (that Curze himself hates and/or barely remembers) watching him have no control over himself. Those scenes aren't about Curze. They're about other characters' perspectives seeing Curze for a brief flash of vision, from their points of view. To say he got no character development is like watching an old man soiling himself and saying "Wait, I thought he was a badass warrior, and this story was about all the girls he got." Those books aren't that story. They have no need to be, either. Yeah. He was a badass. Those books weren't about those times in his life. Not everything needs to a Bible of comprehensive, unrelated information and lore. Sometimes, characters aren't seeing the whole picture. When you see your granddad, you're not seeing him in his heyday. Or do you think he was always that old, that sexless, that slow? Sometimes, as I look soulfully into the evening sky and muse over the tides of destiny, I suspect there'll be a day when I'm inevitably driven to never type another word about 40K. On that day, it will be these perspectives I miss the least, because in addition to their (thankful) rarity, they also make the least sense in terms of criticism. Hrrnm. I don't think I've ever contributed to making a author quit his job before. New experience there. Anywayyss...I read something by Scott Adams once. It basically said that to make humour, you had to have at least two humorous aspects to the joke. Like, a dog with a hat on is cute, but it's not funny until you add another aspect to it. Now, I don't write humour. I write books even less. And the man could have been talking utter rubbish. But that seems to be applicable to Curze there. He's just an insane dude. Insane. Nutso. That dog has a hat, but he doesn't have the other aspect to make him full. The Covenant of Blood is dark and creepy. And it's grumpy. I have more feeling toward that hunk of metal than I do their Primarch. Because from what I read, he was just insane. Nothing more. That's why I don't feel temptation to play Grey Knights. Because, at least now, they're 2-D. Just awesomeness made manifest, without anything else to make them good and interesting. I know what you're saying, and you obviously know what you're doing form how popular your books are. But Curze there just seems to have all the character of a bowl of corn flakes. EDIT: It might also be worth noting that this, might, just be me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239641-a-d-b-in-the-primarchs/#findComment-2891671 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 You'd be right if it was a book about Curze. Curze was just an instrument to show how low NLs sunk in that book. Along with the death of Sevatar and the conflict between Terrans and Nostramans. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239641-a-d-b-in-the-primarchs/#findComment-2891729 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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