Crusader or Redeemer

[Wicks]

Hello,I'm a new blood angels player and i have a box of land raider crusader/redeemer. I am planning to put assault terminators inside.I have enough for ether. Please help me decide which is better.My army is almost complete assault 2baals jumpacks etc.

 

Thanks :lol:

[Deschenus Maximus]

Have you thought about magnets? That would allow you to use either.

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

What do you plan to stick in the Land Raider? Normally, I would stick with the Redeemer, because bolters aren't exactly great, while the flamestorm cannons are excellent. Still, the Crusader gets increased transport capacity, so if you want a big death star unit, you'll want that.

[Judaz]

I think he's planning to have assault terminators inside ;)

[I am Legion]

Welcome to the Winning Team ;)

 

 

So I played a game against a Chaos player at 1750 this weekend.

 

I tried somthing fun this weekend, and I couldn't believe how well it worked! 2 Baal Preds with Flamestorms and no sponsons, a Redeemer with 5 Assault Terminators, followed by a handful of armour. The 2 Baal preds with Flamestorms scouted, and I got first turn. The Chaos player had 1 squad of 20 Raptors, and they got hurt hard :) . By the 2nd turn the Redeemer came in there and just ruined a squad of Berzerkers, and a Rhino.

 

This list worked really well together, perfect synergy. It's got a healthy mix of everything that's needed for a tournament army. I will be honing this list further, but right now I don't know what I would change. Maybe some attack bikes, instead of the Last Baal Pred. Here is the list I used, just so you have an idea of what I'm talking about.

 

This is a 1750 Point Army

 

LIBRARIAN

 

5xTERMINATORS---3xTHSS

SANGUINARY PRIEST

 

10xRAS---2xMG, PF, REDEEMER

5xRAS---MG, PF, RAZORBACK-AC

5xRAS---FLM, PW, MB, RAZORBACK-AC

 

BAAL---HB

BAAL

BAAL

 

STORM RAVEN

[JamesI]

I would generally go with the crusader. More firepower than the redeemer, and a larger capacity. I like being able to make terminator squads larger than 5 and still be able to attach ICs like priests/librarians to them.

[Marik]

I have to go with the Crusader since the increased transport capacity allows you a little bit more flexibility and in addition since the hurricane bolters are defensive weapons it gets to unload them and the AC when moving

 

If you want to smash something with a flamestorm then take a Baal and run in for a quick bake

[undeadfilth]

I'm personally a big fan of the redeemer. Had it kill off that crazy caster from space wolves and his honor guard that dropped in with one round of shooting just from it. yup i love it.

[Atlantic]

I think it really depends on what you have inside.

 

If you are packing terminators, the crusader is probably your best bet.

 

If you are moving other stuff around, the Redeemer is probably more useful.

 

I use a Redeemer and fill it with Death Company. The Flamestorm cannons are just nasty for MEQ units to deal with. Always take the multi melta too.

 

I've thought about going crusader to have even more death company, but I think the diminishing returns at that point make it not worth it.

[Grizzly Adams]

magnets are your friend. I have magnetized mine so that i can run either setup, as well as swap the turrets/side doors from front to back. Its not hard to do, and really is nice. I usually run Redeemers, and run crusaders when I need the room.

 

Here's some pics, its easy to do

 

http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/445/img00197201005141116.jpg

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/9652/img00202201005141118.jpg

http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/776/img00200201005141118.jpg

 

I just took the doors that go on the inside, cut em in half, and glued a magnet in the corner, then glued a corresponding magnet on the back of the door/turret

[MunkeyKungFu]

I run the Crusader, as that allows me to run 5x Assault Marines, Priest & Librarian all in one comfortable killing package.

 

I would also suggest using magnets. A 5 minute job will make life so much easier in the long run.

[Xenith]

I run the Crusader, as that allows me to run 5x Assault Marines, Priest & Librarian all in one comfortable killing package.

 

But...can't you fit all of them in any LR variant? I mean, its only 7 models.

[MunkeyKungFu]

My bad, meant to say Assault Terminators. Too early in the morning and I hadn't drank my morning coffee lol

[Marik]

I run the Crusader, as that allows me to run 5x Assault Marines, Priest & Librarian all in one comfortable killing package.

 

But...can't you fit all of them in any LR variant? I mean, its only 7 models.

 

 

I can only hold 12 and the Terminators take up two slots and if you want either the Librarian or Priest in terminator armor also then you are out of space.

[shdwcypher13]

While watching a bid this week I got this inspiration. 5x assault terminators with lightning claws, mephiston, sang priest, all inside a redeemed. Helps keep you points cost down and gives you that death star of terror with your wild card

[breng77]

sounds great until you realize that Mephiston cannot join that unit, so he would need his own ride or to run around on his own.

[shdwcypher13]

ok I took another look at the vid and found that what was mentioned was not mephiston or a libby but a chaplian

[Brother_Byhlli]

sounds great until you realize that Mephiston cannot join that unit, so he would need his own ride or to run around on his own.

 

I believe that Mephiston can still go in the transport although he cannot join the squad, no? Rulebook isn't to hand, so i may be making this up.

 

I thought he can't start the game in the transport, since it's a dedicated transport, but he can move into the transport after the game has started, even though the squad is still in there?

[Deschenus Maximus]

Unfortunately, no. Only one unit at a time per vehicle, as absurd as that is.

[Morollan]

Unfortunately, no. Only one unit at a time per vehicle, as absurd as that is.

 

And the only vehicle that Mephiston can start the game in is a Stormraven, as it's the only vehicle with a transport capacity that isn't a dedicated transport.

[thade]

Yea, there's no way under the normal rules of the game that Mephiston can start the game in a Land Raider. It's a Dedicated Transport, and he may take none. He lacks the Independent Character rule and so cannot attach to a squad. He is a unit that always consists of one model, and so ICs cannot attach to him. He is always utterly alone.

 

He can climb into a Land Raider should it's normal occupants abandon it (but why, he can just hop along behind it, fully obscured for the most part) but no one can climb inside with him (as people have explained). He can ride (alone) in a Storm Raven and he can start embarked in it. This is the expensive (and only) want to Deep Strike Mephiston.

 

Though it'd be nice to DS him in a Land Raider. I mean, just imagine the lolz.

 

Anyway, back on topic: I strongly recommend rare earth magnets as a solution here. Both the Redeemer and the Crusader are very useful vehicles.

[Morollan]

I strongly recommend rare earth magnets as a solution here. Both the Redeemer and the Crusader are very useful vehicles.

 

I have magnetised most of my vehicles including both land raiders. I can therefore run with any of the standard variants although sadly I don't have enough spare sponsons to have more than one of each type at once.

[thade]

I strongly recommend rare earth magnets as a solution here. Both the Redeemer and the Crusader are very useful vehicles.

 

I have magnetised most of my vehicles including both land raiders. I can therefore run with any of the standard variants although sadly I don't have enough spare sponsons to have more than one of each type at once.

The upgrade kits aren't that expensive when you consider you're getting several tanks out of the deal. ;) Not to mention the spare TL-Assault Cannons are fun occasionally on your Razorbacks.

[Brother_Byhlli]

I think Games Workshop have confused themselves as to the proper use of the phrase "independent character". I think there are characters, like Mephiston, who are independent characters as per the classic understanding - individual models, representing a single character, who tend to be big hero-type models - and then there is the Independent Character special rule, which Mephiston doesn't have.

 

The reason I thought Mephiston could hop into the transport along with the rest of his unit is this line from the BRB:

 

A transport may carry a single infantry unit and/or any number of independent characters (as long as they count as infantry), up to a total of models equal to the vehicle's transport capacity. BRB, page 66, "Transport Capacity"

 

I just assumed that Mephiston counted as an independent character as per the classic term - I didn't think they specifically meant only to allow characters with the special rule to embark with another unit. I can't quite get my head around why they've decided that Mephiston is less capable of hopping on board a Rhino alongside a Tactical Squad than Tycho is. Weird.

[Deschenus Maximus]

Game balance.