Chapter Master Kanithon Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Hi everyone, I was looking through the Grey Knight codex the other day and have always liked the idea of an all inquisitor henchmen army. However, I'm not sure what combinations work well together squad wise, so my question to you all is; what henchmen loadouts do you use? Thanks for the help Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239789-gk-dex-for-an-all-henchmen-army/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Sadly, I don't own the models necessary and appropriate to do this...but if I did, I'd go for variety. Henchmen are cheap and - while fragile - plentiful and versatile. The favorites are DCA, Crusaders, and Jokero (at least, they are mentioned on here a lot). DCA - with or without Crusaders - are particularly nasty...one of the hardest hitting assault units across all Imperium forces right now. Jokero are a favorite toy, like Obliterators-Lite. Lots of weapon options and a decent transport option. You can go all-out horde with them and - while they're fragile - horde armies present the "more bodies than you have bullets" scenario to your opponent. While it's a great deal of painting, it can be a good time. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239789-gk-dex-for-an-all-henchmen-army/#findComment-2892925 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 This is a very common topic! :D Here are the loadouts I like best in a Coteaz list. * 3 Servitors, 3x heavy bolters Stick in your deployoment zone on an objective -- that you placed in cover, of course -- and just accept any dakka you manage to get out of it. For 30 pts, you can't beat it. If you're feeling flush, you can give them a Chimera to shoot out of, which gives them an additional layer of protection and more dakka, but that's just gravy and not necessary. But if you do decide to park these guys in a Chimera, it's worth considering adding both an Inquisitor and a Jokaero to the unit. That'll give the unit a bit more ranged firepower and flexibility, and obviously prevent mindlock in the bargain. Of course, the unit is no longer "cheap as chips", then, either, so it's actually serving a different purpose in the army list at this point. ;) * 3 Servitors, 3x plasma cannon; Chimera This is similar to the HB servitor unit, except that you really do want them in a Chimera for extra protection. You will also want to devote an Inquisitor to the unit to prevent mindlock, as this unit costs enough -- and is potent enough -- that you can't really afford to let them go any turns without shooting. Also worth considering adding a Jokaero to take full advantage of the Chimera's fire points. * 5 Warriors w/storm bolters, 3 Warriors w/melta; Chimera This unit is plenty happy sitting at range shooting up infantry, or can move up to block the enemy and/or sacrifice itself and/or slag an enemy tank. This is probably the best all-round build, IMHO. It's definitely my favorite. * 3 DCAs, 2 Banishers w/Eviscerator, 3 Warriors w/melta, 3-4 Crusaders; Chimera I said "3-4" Crusaders because it depends on whether you intend to attach a character to the unit or not. (If no character, take the 4th Crusader.) This unit hits like a hammer and is capable of assaulting just about anything -- it's especially handy if you need to open up a transport first before assaulting the occupants. But it does cost a fortune in points, so you probably shouldn't take more then one or two of these. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239789-gk-dex-for-an-all-henchmen-army/#findComment-2892929 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elric the Silvercoat Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 A good squad as a gun platform is a Xenos Inquistor with Con Beamer, Jokero, three Heavy Bolter/Plasma Cannon Servitors in a Chimera. That is alot of shots and just one Jokero so you will always get something for the squad. Don't take more per squad because then you run the risk of getting nothing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239789-gk-dex-for-an-all-henchmen-army/#findComment-2892930 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Awwww he changed the topic. When it read "GK dex for Rogue Trader" it was way cooler to me. <3 I want us to get a Rogue Trader codex. I want it so bad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239789-gk-dex-for-an-all-henchmen-army/#findComment-2892934 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 One Jokaero has the risk of getting nothing too. I'd personally be inclined to go with the Malleus Inquisitor with a Hellrifle for long-range shooty squads; the conversion beamer's optimum range doesn't match up that well with Heavy Bolters or Plasma Cannons, while the Hell Rifle matches up exactly. The Hell Rifle is thirty points cheaper too, which never hurts. Since nobody has mentioned them yet, I'll toss in Psykers. They can be fairly hit-or-miss due to having not-so-great leadership, but it's still only 40 points to get a Strength 6 AP 3 Large Blast with pretty good range. One good shot is enough to let them make up their point cost. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239789-gk-dex-for-an-all-henchmen-army/#findComment-2892942 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Kanithon Posted October 5, 2011 Author Share Posted October 5, 2011 Thanks for all the replies, given me some good ideas and shows that I really had no idea what units to make. @ Thade: The topic was originally GK codex for a Rogue Trader because, after reading Savage Scars I really liked the idea of making a Rogue Trader and his forces; using an inquisitor as the rogue trader and all his minions that he'd use to potentially get any items that he'd want/need. so it'd be like the army is all his staff. I was thinking of using like Karskin's as his bodyguard kind of thing with 2 different assassins that where just that, his assassins. The psykers and a lot of the others could be made up of SoB and different models from the IG to act as troops that he'd gathered along his travels DCA could be as they are. Banishers w/Eviscerator would be sister repentia Maybe even a squad of warriors with power armour to be a squad of Space marines that had been loaned to him for a certain mission, although i don't know how viable warriors in PA are? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239789-gk-dex-for-an-all-henchmen-army/#findComment-2892950 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Maybe even a squad of warriors with power armour to be a squad of Space marines that had been loaned to him for a certain mission, although i don't know how viable warriors in PA are? Not at all. Don't bother with the expense. You don't see IG players bemoaning their terrible 5+ armour saves, do you? :D There's a reason for that. ;) By and large, when what you're working with are fragile models with limited offensive capability, you gotta skimp on the upgrades. Less is definitely more when it comes to henchmen. Buy only what is required for a specific purpose and not one iota more. Keep thade's earlier comment firmly in mind: "more bodies than you have bullets". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239789-gk-dex-for-an-all-henchmen-army/#findComment-2892957 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 The take-away: you can only engage so many targets in a game. One of my favorite fights was a tournament match where I went up against a zero-tanks, all-foot-slogging IG list. The number of infantrymen was insane; I simply could not kill them all. Oh, I slaughtered them wholesale...but by the end he still had half of his army standing and I barely pulled out a minor victory via shenanigans: my Immobilized Vindicator scattered a shot onto the unit he had holding his backfield objective...and the squad broke and ran off the table. Had that not happened, I'd have lost; I simply could not get back there through all of his bodies. I see henchmen armies fulfilling a similar role. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239789-gk-dex-for-an-all-henchmen-army/#findComment-2892959 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Kanithon Posted October 5, 2011 Author Share Posted October 5, 2011 Makes sense to meee. So I can see a lot of shooting unit with maybe a jokero, with a couple of warriors and a psyker or 2? how about hot - shot lasguns, in a unit of 5 in a chimera or something then add a couple of meltas? or is that too much? thinking, maybe some units at the back with more storm bolters and jokero and a couple of servitors? and then maybe 1 or 2 combat units with DCAs, Banishers w/Eviscerator, Warriors w/melta and some crusaders? or maybe 1 with corteaz for counter attacks? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239789-gk-dex-for-an-all-henchmen-army/#findComment-2892964 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 The more I think about it, the more I would build my list this way: Fodder unit for mid-field engagement and objective contesting: - No trooper gets more than one upgrade, no matter what it is (defensive or offensive). - For each trooper with an upgrade, two troopers go in the unit with NO upgrades. - If the squad can fit in a transport, it gets one. Annoying Rock Unit: - Two or three guys with power fists. - Half the squad gets power armor. - Pump the unit silly. - Home objective camper. Ranged anti-tank: the servitor squads described by number6. Counter-assault: DCA with a handful of Crusaders (to soak power weapon wounds) riding around behind the Fodder unit(s) to counter-charge when the fodder takes a charge. I kind of want to try this...but again, I don't have the models. :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239789-gk-dex-for-an-all-henchmen-army/#findComment-2892968 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Maybe even a squad of warriors with power armour to be a squad of Space marines that had been loaned to him for a certain mission, although i don't know how viable warriors in PA are? Not at all. Don't bother with the expense. You don't see IG players bemoaning their terrible 5+ armour saves, do you? :( There's a reason for that. ;) By and large, when what you're working with are fragile models with limited offensive capability, you gotta skimp on the upgrades. Less is definitely more when it comes to henchmen. Buy only what is required for a specific purpose and not one iota more. Keep thade's earlier comment firmly in mind: "more bodies than you have bullets". Have to agree there; once you add in power armor and whatever special weapons you're fielding, you'll end up with models that cost only slightly less than GK. If you want power armour in a henchman list, add in a squad or two of Purifiers and/or Interceptors. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239789-gk-dex-for-an-all-henchmen-army/#findComment-2892974 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Kanithon Posted October 5, 2011 Author Share Posted October 5, 2011 That's along the same lines as I was thinking, with a few changes. The other thing that i can't decided on is if i want to give all warriors carapace armour, but for 10 points a model max, is it really worth it? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239789-gk-dex-for-an-all-henchmen-army/#findComment-2892976 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 So I can see a lot of shooting unit with maybe a jokero, with a couple of warriors and a psyker or 2? how about hot - shot lasguns, in a unit of 5 in a chimera or something then add a couple of meltas? or is that too much? Hot shot lasguns aren't bad. I just think storm bolters are better because they always shoot 2 shots and at a full 24". Marines are often toting power fists, melta bombs, and melta weapons. If you intend to use hot shot lasguns, you're almost certainly intending to get within 12" of your target. Why do that when you can stay muuuch farther away (at a safe distance) and still maul them with shooting? (It's not like Marine armies enjoy all the storm bolter dakka dished out by GK armies rife with GK models.) Besides: storm bolters are cheaper. ;) (Are you seeing a theme here? :( ) Adding meltas to a unit is generally going to be a good idea. It's one of those "expensive" upgrades for a Warrior henchmen, but often a necessary one. In a henchmen-centric army, what else do you have for popping armour and putting wounds on monstrous creatures? A minimum level of general 40K gaming capability must be present in every army list, no matter what codex it is built from. For a GK army centered around henchmen, meltas fill a required hole that is otherwise going to be gaping very large. If at all possible, I would take 3 warriors with meltas -- as opposed to "a couple" -- because of the BS 3. This gives you excellent odds of hitting at least once, which is what's important. These guys are rarely going to get more than one shot at their target; you need to make it count. The other thing that i can't decided on is if i want to give all warriors carapace armour, but for 10 points a model max, is it really worth it? If power armour isn't worth it, what makes you think Carapace armour would be? ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239789-gk-dex-for-an-all-henchmen-army/#findComment-2892994 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Kanithon Posted October 5, 2011 Author Share Posted October 5, 2011 number6 i like your style =] think I have enough now to make an army. Just have to find the models that can count as storm bolters, ahha. I'll post my list up at some point today or tomorrow after I've actually worked it out Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239789-gk-dex-for-an-all-henchmen-army/#findComment-2892998 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RolandTHTG Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 As an IG and Henchmen player, I'm sorry to say that Henchmen are not a good horde army. You only get 6 henchmen units, so a max of 72 models in 6 units. neither the squad # or the number of squads to be truely horde. One of the things that henchmen are good at is customizing and specializing. You need to select units similar to how eldar aspect warriors do - each unit has a task, close combat vs short ranged vs long ranged I have tended to use 4-5 henchmen units in my 1500-1750 lists. Also, In a all Henchmen army, you need to add a couple of upgrades just to get to the points. :D Here's my common units: 3 plasmacannon servitors, 6 psykers, 3 carapace bolters - placed with coteaz on an objective, and throw out 3-4 blasts a turn. 2 jokers, 3 plasma guns w/ carapace, 5 hotshot w/poweramor, 2 bolters - a second unit to hold objectives, can be used to screen coteaz's unit or move around gunning as need be. Also has some Anti-tank capacity. You can't rely on the rolls, but both the +1 armor and plus 12in range produce some hilarious effects on opponents faces. 4 deathcult, 4 crusaders, banisher/evicerator - used in rhino w/ Xenos grenade Inquisitor or in chimera w/ mystic & GK Librarian. Aggressive close combat unit # 1 4 deathcult, 3 crusader, 2 meltaguns - used in rhino w/xenos grenade or Techmarine grenade. Aggressive close combat unit #2. 2 deathcult, 2 crusader, 2 flamer - placed in razorback for fire support & counter assault. I've been experimenting with some of the mixed units mentioned above, but I generally think that if you want stormbolters, use GK. I also run a couple assassins (vindicare and eversor) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239789-gk-dex-for-an-all-henchmen-army/#findComment-2893052 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Kanithon Posted October 5, 2011 Author Share Posted October 5, 2011 I was planning on using a vinidcare and eversor too. I was also looking at using inquisitor valerica aswell as coteaz. I still can't make up my mind about stormbolters vs bolters, if i had bolters, they're cheap and means i can have more special units. however i do like the combat with weapons specialists and will be looking at including that in my army list, maybe 3 in each of the combat units and then maybe none in the other units, preferring to lean towards jokareo's and servitors. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239789-gk-dex-for-an-all-henchmen-army/#findComment-2893057 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 The other issue I have with hot-shots is that they're quite a bit more specialized in their use; hot-shot lasguns are rather underwhelming if you're not shooting at something with a 3+ armor save. Granted, power armor armies are very common, but in an all-comer's list the storm bolter does benefit from being good a broader spectrum of opponents. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239789-gk-dex-for-an-all-henchmen-army/#findComment-2893058 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RolandTHTG Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 While the Strength 4 does have an advantage, the AP 3 will cut through 4+ save, which the storm bolter doesn't. That squad is also set up for marine hunting, and the hotshots aid that effect. If I get another henchmen unit, I might go with a torrent of fire squad. But even then I think that a purgator squad would be better. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239789-gk-dex-for-an-all-henchmen-army/#findComment-2893281 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drachnon Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 personally I find the hot-shot lasguns a bit too expensive for the models they're on. It's pretty much the choice of taking a hot-shot lasgun or take an extra warrior with bolter. I might have considered them if the warriors had BS 4. Anyways I'm personally a fan of 10 warriors with bolters and 2 Jokaero. 2 Jokaero have the best chance of getting at least 1 positive effect (26/27 times). Add a chimera and you're at 175 points. Doing the same with storm bolters instead of normal bolters would be 195 points. Compared to other maxed out units in our codex with a transport you have a pretty good deal. The DCA horde is also a fun idea though somewhat more expensive with 12 + chimera costing you 235 points (still about the same you'd pay for 10 strikes in a rhino). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239789-gk-dex-for-an-all-henchmen-army/#findComment-2893321 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Heretic Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I'd prefer a storm bolter over the hot-shot lasgun anyday, the storm bolter is just more versatile and cheaper. Sure the hot-shot has a slight advantage vs. 3+ saves within 12 inches - but warrior acolytes aren't supposed to be within 12" of any kind of marine :D - On the other hand, how about a henchman list looking something like this Coteaz 100 pts Malleus Inquisitor w. hellrifle 40 pts. 4 x 11 servitors (8 heavy bolters and 3 plasma) + 1 Jokaero 700 pts 2 x techmarines w. conversion beamers 220 pts. 1 x Vindicare Assassin 145 pts. - thats alot of high strength shooty stuff for 1105 pts. Add on interceptor squads and PT dreadknights to make your opponents life a living hell :yes: Whoops! What a load of :D :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239789-gk-dex-for-an-all-henchmen-army/#findComment-2893401 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Heavy weapons on servitors are 3 per squad max. When it comes to torrent fire, SB warrior acolytes beat GKs by simple virtue of having about 1/3 of the point cost of the basic GK. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239789-gk-dex-for-an-all-henchmen-army/#findComment-2893446 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Sorry to dredge this back up, but I think I have a valid question... I was planning on 12 warriors in a Chimera. Three with melta the rest with bolters. Is this a OK build or is the smaller number of warriors with storm bolters and meltas a better idea? (My armor is going for a cheap hench. elite GK feel. For my Coteaz unit I was going with 3xwarriors with plasma gun, 2xservs with plasma cannon in a Chimera. The rest of the models get bolters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239789-gk-dex-for-an-all-henchmen-army/#findComment-2915537 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Sorry to dredge this back up, but I think I have a valid question... I was planning on 12 warriors in a Chimera. Three with melta the rest with bolters. Is this a OK build or is the smaller number of warriors with storm bolters and meltas a better idea? (My armor is going for a cheap hench. elite GK feel. It's not a bad setup; bolters and melta have ranges that compliment each other nicely. The only real downside of the unit (aside from the obvious fact that you need to avoid geting into cc) is that those nine bolters go to waste when shooting at a vehicle, but they're cheap enough that it won't be the end of the world. Storm bolters are really at their best when you want to stay 24" away from the enemy, which obviously isn't in the game plan for a melta-toting unit. For my Coteaz unit I was going with 3xwarriors with plasma gun, 2xservs with plasma cannon in a Chimera. The rest of the models get bolters. Any reason not to go for 3x Servitors? Sure, it gives you one more plasma weapon than you have firing points, but a third blast template is handy. Besides, with 5 plasma weapons shooting out of the top hatch every turn, it's only a matter of time before someone rolls a 1. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239789-gk-dex-for-an-all-henchmen-army/#findComment-2915547 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Sorry to dredge this back up, but I think I have a valid question... I was planning on 12 warriors in a Chimera. Three with melta the rest with bolters. Is this a OK build or is the smaller number of warriors with storm bolters and meltas a better idea? (My armor is going for a cheap hench. elite GK feel. It's not a bad setup; bolters and melta have ranges that compliment each other nicely. The only real downside of the unit (aside from the obvious fact that you need to avoid geting into cc) is that those nine bolters go to waste when shooting at a vehicle, but they're cheap enough that it won't be the end of the world. Storm bolters are really at their best when you want to stay 24" away from the enemy, which obviously isn't in the game plan for a melta-toting unit. For my Coteaz unit I was going with 3xwarriors with plasma gun, 2xservs with plasma cannon in a Chimera. The rest of the models get bolters. Any reason not to go for 3x Servitors? Sure, it gives you one more plasma weapon than you have firing points, but a third blast template is handy. Besides, with 5 plasma weapons shooting out of the top hatch every turn, it's only a matter of time before someone rolls a 1. Good points. I was thinking about the access points. There would be a 20 pt trade off in the list. That's one of the things I can test in play and modify/tweak. So you don't see a good value in number 6's stormbolter/melta setup posted above? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239789-gk-dex-for-an-all-henchmen-army/#findComment-2915561 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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