Chaplain ChonkE Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 So uh, Horus definitely did not use the codex and was more badass. He was the Prime Son, built to take the throne in every way. He was the political mastermind, tactical genius, close-combat monster, technologically adept and yadda yadda yadda. He could do anything, short of shoot lightning bolts from his eyes, and do it as well as any other Primarch. Horus was raised by the Emperor and likely shared more of His personality traits than the other primarchs. He shares the Emperor's love of bloodletting, His magnanimity, His code of honor and ethics, His ambition, ego and drive. Horus was the only Primarch that was approved of by nearly everyone. Even the Primarchs like Angron, Perturabo, and Mortarion had friendships or comradeship with Horus when everyone else would give them the evil eye and make warding gestures... Well, maybe not that. Horus is archetype of the antihero. While I do not appreciate Horus' goals or ambitions (But I was a long time Black Legion player! Miss that army ;) ) I respect his want to fight a power much much much greater than himself, and even greater than the powerful 4godHorus during the Final Battle. It is a parallel to Satan in Paradise Lost, who fights against an infallible being. All-knowing, all-powerful, all-seeing. Satan still says He is not on the level. That is brass right there. The difference here is that the Emperor is not an infallible being. He is not All-Knowing, All-Powerful, All-Seeing. He is damn close but no cigar. Neither are the Chaos Gods though. When Emperor brings out the 5 Finger Death Touch... of the Mind, they run like grots. Horus thought he could run a better show, and had all the tools (other Primarchs) to do it. He made a play at the Throne and I cant say I blame him. The Emperor did seem to lose in a duel (or at least falter!) to the champion of a greenskin horde on Ullanor and had to be saved by his chosen son. Maybe Horus thought it was time to change and was more ripe for Chaos than we know! Hehe, okay enough postulating! Horus was a badass. He would have been the only person able to legitimately take the seat of Imperial Power, but it seems that the Emperor erred again. Horus should have been built like the Emperor in every way, and his shortcomings with the Warp seem to be an oversight by the Emperor. Unless Big E was a sadist looking to eugenically evolve Man into the New Man through the crucible of War as stated in Legion. I seem to agree with this view more and more about the Emperor's motives and how it went down. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239826-was-horus-really-all-that-badass/page/7/#findComment-2903519 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplainmeliadus Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Also let me remind you that the desolation of the legions the number of chapters that have fallen are inumerable.I know at least 10 with fluff accounting for more than that.So what is the difference? Surely the difference is that 1,000 space marines turning to chaos at a time is a more 'manageable' threat that 10,000 turning at once? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239826-was-horus-really-all-that-badass/page/7/#findComment-2904217 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGXH Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 For what it's worth, I see this as one of the few things that people will see as RaW vs RaI. Except for Fluff. Fluff as written? Well, as you can see, people have very different opinions. Fluff as intended? Horus was meant to be the greatest Primarch, most beloved of them. He is meant to show and highlight how insidious the grasp of chaos is, and how truly, even the greatest of us can fall to it. My 2p. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239826-was-horus-really-all-that-badass/page/7/#findComment-2904489 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 most beloved of them. Eh... The Emperor's opinion counts for a lot, but you have to ignore most of everyone else for THAT to really be true.... PreHeresy: Horus was maybe most beloved by The Emperor and people reading newspapers about the Great Crusade. Guilliman was most beloved on all those worlds he claimed for the Imperium who were actually glad he took over their world and made their lives better instead of annihilating their ecosystems and governments. Sanguinius was most beloved by the Primarchs and by those who actually met him. PostHeresy: Sanguinius is most beloved in a spiritual sense. He's become the uber saint. Basically Jesus and the Archangel Michael combined. Guilliman is most beloved in a practical sense. A huge number of those worlds he and his Ultramarines conquered and set up during the Great Crusade, all the worlds they protected during the Scouring, and thousands of the worlds they've defended since then still honor Guilliman and his Ultramarines, which is why they are the most famous Chapter in the Imperium. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239826-was-horus-really-all-that-badass/page/7/#findComment-2906366 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturnn Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Horus was the most beloved son of the Emperor cuz he found him firstly. Second thing is the fact that Horus has all skills of his brothers (strategic mind, brilliant politic, unmatched fighter). The rest of primarchs, so...each had one of this gifts. Guillman was pure example of Imperial Soldier - devoted, cold minded, perfect but he couldn't be warmaster. Horus was bad ass? Sure he was. Chaos Gods played on his love to Emperor. Amongst all primarchs, his relation with Emperor was closest to relation father-son. But so, he was weak, felt cast away by Emperor with his back to Terra and secret work. That's all. Each of treitors felt in some sort abaddoned by Emperor and that was what brought them to treason. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239826-was-horus-really-all-that-badass/page/7/#findComment-2906386 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Lord Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Horus himself would disagree with the argument that he was the best all rounder, with all the skills needed: False Gods page 202 "Then who would you have picked to be Warmaster if not you?" asked Petronella. Horus appeared momentarily perturbed by the question, but said "Sanguinius. It should have been him. He has the vision and strength to carry us to victory and the wisdom to rule once that victory is won. For all his aloof coolness, he alone has the Emperor's soul in his blood. Each of us carries part of our father within us, whether it is his hunger for battle, his psychic talent or his determination to succeed. Sanguinius holds it all. It should have been his..." "And what part of the Emperor do you carry, sir?" "Me? I carry his ambition to rule." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239826-was-horus-really-all-that-badass/page/7/#findComment-2906422 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Well Sanguinius' talents are wasted with his over humble bearing then. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239826-was-horus-really-all-that-badass/page/7/#findComment-2906426 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustermaker Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 After trying to read all the Horus vs Guilliman stuff....This is how I see the two. Guilliman was all about empire building, while Horus was all about empire taking. I am just talking about their tastes. I feel Guilliman loved to take a shattered world and rebuild it into something grand, I also feel Horus loved the thrill of battle and the glory of marching in front of the people he conquered, he enjoyed the limelight. At the time the Emperor wanted to conqueror the galaxy hence the title Warmaster. If there hadn't been a heresy who knows, the title/job Warmaster would have been obsolete and the "empire builder" would have been much more valuable to the Emperor. After typing all of this, I still do prefer Horus he seems much more human than the other Primarchs. He feels the pressure and truly who wouldn't have doubts after being so close to someone like the Emperor for so long, then boom gotta go work on a super secret project son keep up the good work... As for the main topic, I do feel he was a Bad@ss. This goes back to my point about him being so human in nature. People are capible of horrible things when their beliefs/worlds are shattered. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239826-was-horus-really-all-that-badass/page/7/#findComment-2906481 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturnn Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 True. What is more, Horus was this kind of person who makes that you feel important, that your opinnion counts. And he was brilliant tactic too, Ullanor, both Istvaan's were great victories not only because he has got greater number of Astartes than loyalist. He was in many ways like Napoleon - he was able to work out advantage over his enemy and use it well to crush him. If we would consider Warmaster's title only form strategic point of view we would have much more candidates: Dorn, Guillman, Lion, Alpharius. Warmaster was something more and Horus was all in one person. Quote form FG shows only that even beings like primarchs had doubts and not always believed in their skills. But no, before HH there wouldn't be any better warmaster than Horus. And some for Guillman's fans : Alpharius was able to kick his ass in some battle and even if he was killed by Guillman, his soldiers were able to fight with this same confidence. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239826-was-horus-really-all-that-badass/page/7/#findComment-2906518 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gree Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 And some for Guillman's fans : Alpharius was able to kick his ass in some battle and even if he was killed by Guillman, his soldiers were able to fight with this same confidence. The battle of Eskrador was called into question even in universe. The person who presented the account, Inquisitor Kravin, was thought to be a possible Alpha Legion agent. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239826-was-horus-really-all-that-badass/page/7/#findComment-2906616 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturnn Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Yeah, it was the most imporatant in my post... mercy dude. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239826-was-horus-really-all-that-badass/page/7/#findComment-2906628 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Wilhelm Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Yeah, it was the most imporatant in my post... mercy dude. :down: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239826-was-horus-really-all-that-badass/page/7/#findComment-2906675 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Payton Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Yeah, it was the most imporatant in my post... mercy dude. There is no mercy on the B 'n' C, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter and the laughter of thirsting mods. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239826-was-horus-really-all-that-badass/page/7/#findComment-2906853 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulse Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 There is no mercy on the B 'n' C, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter and the laughter of thirsting mods. True enough. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239826-was-horus-really-all-that-badass/page/7/#findComment-2906859 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sturnn Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 This joke was :jaw: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239826-was-horus-really-all-that-badass/page/7/#findComment-2906906 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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