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A Tale of Two Lists - How the heck did this work out?


Atlantic

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Last night I was able to squeeze in two 2500 point games.

 

The guy I play against is a pretty good player and he runs multiple armies and multiple versions of those armies. I never know what he is bringing so I always try to bring a good generalist list. I've seen him bring Necrons, Tau, Crimson Fists w/ Kantor, Grey Knights, Chaos SM, and Nids.

 

As I've previously posted his Nid list is always a very tough match for me.

 

He brought it again last night.

 

We played two games with 3 objectives both were pitched battle deployment.

 

The list he brought was:

 

Pimped out Flying Hive Tyrant x 2

5 bug shrike squads w/ boneswords and lashwhips x 2

9 Zoanthropes in squads of 2

60 Genestealers in 5 squads of 12 - toxin sacks, talons, pimped out etc

 

 

The first list I fought him with was

 

Mephiston

Reclusiarch

 

4 - RAS w/ 5 guys, 3 of the sergeants had power weapons, 2 flamers, 2 melta guns, each squad with a razorback. Two Rbacks were TWL- Lascannons, other 2 were HB w/ HK Missle

 

Death Company x 11 guys, 2 pw and 2 pfist riding in a Land Raider Redeemer w/ the Reclusiarch

 

D Company Dreadnaught w/ Magna Grapple

 

Furioso Dread w/ Lib upgrade

 

Attack Bikes w/ multimelta x 4 (2 squads of 2)

 

Dreadnaught w/ multimelta

 

vindicator x 2

 

 

Like every match up to date, the first battle was a long drawn out affair with massive casualties on both sides. My friend ended up winning in the 5th turn. I held one objective he held two.

 

The interesting part of this though was that my Death Company were far and away the stars of the show. They annihilated 3 squads of genestealers and a Hive Tyrant surviving the entire game with 6 guys left in the squad. The casualties I took were due to one of the GS squads getting a charge off on me.

 

My DC last night had 2 fellows with bolt pistols and power swords, 2 with bolt guns and power fists, and the rest were just bolter marines.

 

So, we discussed this and made some changes to the list and set the game up identical to the first. We went with the philosophy of if your opponent can't score he can't win.

 

New list. This was on the fly so the math might not be right. I need to double check it today.

 

Astaroth

Seth

 

Death Company x 11 2 pw, 2 pfist - Land Raider Redeemer

Death Company x 10 2 pw - Land Raider Redeemer

 

Death Company Dread x 2 w/ Magna Grapples - both in Drop Pods

 

Chaplain x 2

 

Sanguinary Guard - 2 inf pistols, banner

 

Attack Bikes w/ multi melta x 4 - 2 squads of 2

 

So 1 DC and chaplain per land raider. Seth joined the group without the powerfists. Astaroth joined the Sanguinary Guard.

 

The SG, and both bike squads got the Red Thirst.

 

I deployed everything together. He infiltrated his genestealers all around me and it was on.

 

I drove the Land Raiders right up the middle and started flaming, etc. During turns 1 and 2 I dropped my Dreadnaughts on top of his zoanthropes and killed them with one surviving fully functional dreadnaught. The Sanguinary Guard killed 3 squads of gene stealers in hand to hand combat.

 

At the end of turn 3 my opponent was tabled.... Only one group of Death Company actually deployed from the Land Raider. One of his hive tyrants popped it. They fell out and swarmed him. The other hive tyrant died to massed melta shots.

 

 

I never thought that would ever be that effective. It still hasn't really sunk in.

 

Is this an anomaly or is this worth sitting down and tinkering with?

I just checked my spreadsheets.

 

The 2nd list was legal. I did some further tinkering.

 

If I do this again, I'm going to go this route

 

Astaroth

Reclus

 

3 DC Dreads w/ Magna Grapples (2 w/ blood talons, 1 w/blood fist) in Dpods

 

DC #1 - 11 guys, 2 pw, 2pfist - Land Raider Redeemer

 

DC # 2 - 10 guys, 2 pw, 2 pfist - Land Raider Redeemer

 

Chaplain

Sang Guard - 2 inf pistols, banner

 

4 attack bikes w/ multi meltas

 

Ends up being 2495 exactly

It wasn't. I had to check the math. I just confirmed it was legal. That is all.

Oh ;)

 

I wouldn't mind trying that list myself.

 

The Chaplains all basic load out?

 

And are the DC just with Bolters or CCW and Bolt Pistols?

 

And are the Dreads with Fist or Talons?

Chaplains are just basic loadout.

 

One of the Dreads have talons, the other fists. I think I would try to drop them close to each other situation depending. That way the talon guy won't get stuck punching a land raider or something stupid.

 

I ran the Death Company as 7 bolter marines. 2 guys with powerfists and bolters. 2 powersword guys with bolt pistols. That bolt fire ends up being pretty significant, especially when followed by the DC charge. This squad outright hosed two squads of genestealers without taking a wound by firing and then charging.

 

Seriously - DC - the only tactical squad worth running.

Im not too surprised, IMO DC are our biggest asset.

 

Ive had similar experiences, my 8 man bolter squad (1 pf) made there way through my mates Tau army, and backed up with a termie squad were able to single handedly destroy my mates GS list.

 

Try a DC pod list, ive had huge sucess just dropping them in teh middle of the army (2-3 pods that is) and letting them go wild.Any back up they need can come from ASM DoA or even a few regular tac squads (use 2 for bolter fire and you can get some great supression), alternativly ive found a Raven with hurricanes or a DC dread to be more then enough support.

 

Good luck mate.

 

 

p.s; dont forget Morticon has been using them to excellant effect, read his posts on proper usage to mitigate teh rage downside.

So perhaps DC-Wing..

 

Astorath

Reclusiarch

 

DC x 9 - 2 pw, 2pfist - Drop Pod

DC x 9 - 2pw, 2pfist - Drop Pod

DC x 9 - 2pw, 2pfist - Drop Pod

DC Dread - Blood Talons, Magna Grap - Drop Pod

DC Dread - Fist, Magna Grap - Drop Pod

DC Dread - Fist, Magna Grap - Drop Pod

 

Chaplain x 2

Sanguinary Guard - banner, 2 infpistols

 

6 attack bikes w multi melta - 2 squads of 3 or 3 squads of 2

 

That is 2465

 

I'm playing in an 1850 tournament in November. I'm really tempted to say screw the objectives and try to make an 1850 DC list.

So perhaps DC-Wing..

 

Astorath

Reclusiarch

 

DC x 9 - 2 pw, 2pfist - Drop Pod

DC x 9 - 2pw, 2pfist - Drop Pod

DC x 9 - 2pw, 2pfist - Drop Pod

DC Dread - Blood Talons, Magna Grap - Drop Pod

DC Dread - Fist, Magna Grap - Drop Pod

DC Dread - Fist, Magna Grap - Drop Pod

 

Chaplain x 2

Sanguinary Guard - banner, 2 infpistols

 

6 attack bikes w multi melta - 2 squads of 3 or 3 squads of 2

 

That is 2465

 

I'm playing in an 1850 tournament in November. I'm really tempted to say screw the objectives and try to make an 1850 DC list.

 

I was trying to put one together using Stormravens, but the Stormravens take up too many points, I think. I'll try one with Drop Pods instead. Maybe one Stormraven to include Astorath, Lemartes and a tasty package of goodness inside... :)

p.s; dont forget Morticon has been using them to excellant effect, read his posts on proper usage to mitigate teh rage downside.

 

;) ^What he said!!

 

DC are great. I don't know if full strict DC lists would be viable tournament wise, but they're definitely worth a try. I'd suggest going a little bit tactical - like you have. So maybe a jumpy RAS for astorath, keep the bikes, and then see what else you can fit in.

 

Id keep em lean though - one big hammer (blinged-ish) squad, and the rest just a fist.

 

235 Gets you 8 DC and a fist in a Rhino, which is fighty as heck by itself.

Get yourself 2 more of those, and maybe bling out one of them and you have some serious threats to deal with.

 

 

eg:

 

Astorath

Libby - Rage / Shield (or Fear depending on pref)

 

10 RAS - 2mg, Fist

8 DC - Fist

Rhino

8 DC - Fist

Rhino

9 DC - Fist, Hammer, PW

Rhino

 

2 Attack Bikes- 2MM

3 Attack Bikes- 3MM

 

Pred - Auto/Las

Pred - Auto/Las

 

 

All for 1850 !

 

At 2500, id start throwing in more squads and maybe the pod dreads too.

 

Remember, with astorath, if you're running your jumpers in support behind the rhinos, you can always switch him out from the RAS to the assaulting DC in the movement phase. You may not get him into combat, but the rerolls from the squad alone may be worth having him tag along.

Is it not the case that from a very low number of models, you're better off adding power weapons than more bodies? I think somewhere around five Death Company. They start to benefit significantly more from improved weapons than from more bodies. Or so I thought?
Atlantic your all DC list looks very tempting. Not sure you need the magna grapple on the dread with the talons, but at strength 6 you can still rip open a transport so I guess it can be useful. Have you had a chance to play any games with this list yet?
Is it not the case that from a very low number of models, you're better off adding power weapons than more bodies? I think somewhere around five Death Company. They start to benefit significantly more from improved weapons than from more bodies. Or so I thought?

 

I'm not sure what you're getting at? Bodies are good for endurance, but adding a 15 pt power weapon will make all attacks from that model three times as effective vs MEQ. So for straight up offense the weapon upgrade is clearly better value than an additional marine as long as your meta is MEQ heavy.

I've played the very first version I posted at the top of the thread.

 

I'm going to try both the land raider and drop pod versions on friday. I'll be sure to let you all know how it goes.

 

I put the Magna Grapples on the Dreadnoughts simply to give them another weapon to fire out of the pod. Given they can't assault right out the doors, the extra firepower may be useful.

I've got 3 lists I'm going to try on Friday.

 

These aren't "ideal" lists as I'm still working on the models to play 3 DC Dreads.

 

I'm curious as to what you guys think. I'll be sure to post the results next week.

 

List 1. - the strat is to drive the land raiders forward and turn the DC loose. Drop the Dreads where it hurts. Sang Guard are for surgical strikes. Attack Bikes for tank popping

 

Astorath

Reclusiarch

 

Death Company x 10 - 2pw, 2pfists, (6 boltguns) - Land Raider Redeemer

Death Company x 10 - 2 pw, 2pfists, (6 boltguns)- Land Raider Redeemer

Death Company Dreadnaught - Blood Talons, Magna Grapple - Dpod

 

Chaplain

Furioso Dreadnaught w Lib upgrade - Dpod

Sanguinary Guard - banner, 2 inf pistols

 

4 attack bikes w/ multi melta - 2 squads of 2

 

2485 exactly, i may put a plasma pistol in my DC for the hell of it

 

 

 

 

 

List 2 - Same as the first, full Raiders less interesting Dreads

 

Astorath

Reclusiarch

 

Death Company x 11 - 2pw,2fists - Land Raider Redeemer

Death Company x 11 - 2pw, 2fists - Land Raider Redeemer

Death Company Dreadnaught - Blood Talons, Magna Grapple - Dpod

 

Chaplain

Sanguinary Guard - Banner, 2 inf pistols

 

Dread x 2 (w/ multi meltas) - Dpods

 

2500 exactly

 

 

 

 

List 3 - Not quite an all DC army. Idea would be to dump the DC pods in or close to the enemy deployment zone. DC Land Raider would rush the enemy, while Seth and Astaroth take care of important targets that need to die. Other Dread in the pod would come in where he can do the most damage. Bikes for Tanks.

 

Astorath

Seth

 

Death Company x 8 - 2 pw, 2 fists - Dpod

Death Company x 11 - 2pw, 2 fists - Land Raider Redeemer

Death Company Dread - Talons, Magna Grapple, - Dpod

 

Chaplain x 2

Sanguinary Guard - Banner, 2 Inf Pistols

 

Attack Bikes w/ multi melta x 4

 

Dreadnaught - multi melta - Dpod

 

Honour Guard - pw/plaspistol, Champion, 2 TH SS - Razorback

 

2500 exactly

So I was able to test this list this past Friday night.

 

 

Astorath

Meph

 

DComp x 8 - 2pw,2pfists - Drop Pod

DComp x 11 - 2pw, 2pfists - LRR

DC Dread - Magna Grapple - Drop Pod

 

 

Chaplain x 2

Sanguinary Guard - Banner, 2 Infernus Pistols

 

4 attack bikes w/ multi meltas

 

Dread w/ multi melta - Drop Pod

 

Devastator Squad x 2 - (5 men each, 3 missle launchers per squad)

 

 

My friend brought

 

Kantor

Master of the Forge

 

3 x tac squads in rhinos (don't remember what they were packing)

 

2 x 5 man terminator squads (th/ss) - 2 Land Raiders one redeemer one godhammer

 

2 Dreadnaughts w/ multi meltas - Drop Pods

2 Dreadnaughts w/ Twin Linked Las Cannons - Drop Pods

 

 

The first game went to 5 turns he won by being able to hold on to the objective in his deployment zone. I contested the obj in my deployment zone. Not too much to talk about.

 

The second game was annihilation. I tabled him in turn 4.

 

All in all, I think this test confirms my list will win in KP or a straight fight, but probably lose too much in objective games to make it totally workable.

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