Stormraven: comparing sizes

[Forgefather]

So earlier today I played a quick 1750 point game against a Grey Knight-playing mate of mine, with my Space Wolves. All and all I'm fairly happy with my 20 terminator army with Njarl Stormcaller, Logan Grimnar, two Vindicators and a Land Speeder Typhoon, but I'm still tweaking the list here and there (like perhaps adding a Land Raider Crusader) and still raging at how incredibly overpowered a Grey Knight army is compared to a regular Space Marine army, but that's a rant for another post.

 

My main reason to ask you guys for your view on things is the Stormraven I was up against earlier today, because it caused some (a lot) of discussion between the two of us. I, as a true Fenrisian son, am short-tempered, straight-forward, and I don't like the magical mumbo-jumbo of complicated rules. Him being a true-blood Grey Knight, he wines, and moans, and comes up with yet more nasty and horribly annoying ways to beat me on every turf. A few examples:

 

Mindstrike Missiles. A Stormraven is fitted with 4 of these babies, which he generally fires in the first turn, all four templates spot-on on Njarl's head. The hits themselves don't really matter much against a Njarl in Terminator Armour, but the Perils of the Warp special effect pretty much means that he'll shoot Njarl out of the game the very first turn of his army. Not enjoyable.

 

But they raised some eyebrows, most of them (or all of 'em, really) on my side of the table. A few questions that came up:

 

Can you really fire all four in the same turn?

 

Do you honestly have to score four "weapon destroyed" effects before he can no longer fire them (or wait for them to shoot all four -- which generally means in Turn 2)?

 

Is it true that since a Stormraven is (optionally) equipped with two Hurricane Bolter sponsons, you need to score two "Weapon Destroyed" effects to actually take out both of the Hurricane Bolters?

 

Does measuring range for a shooting weapon honestly not start your Shooting Phase? (He decided to still disembark his Twin Autocannon Dreadnought after measuring distance for his Terminator's Storm Bolters / Psycannons).

 

Can you cast Hammerhand at any time during yours or your opponents turn? It sounds somewhat lame to allow it to be cast just before or while a unit is charged.

 

 

 

If more questions come up, I'll be sure to post them here (especially the Stormraven weapon questions bug me to no end). It just strikes me as awkward that a Stormraven would require up to 8 "Weapon Destroyed" results before it's truly disarmed. Also, can you declare someone a complete nitpicker when he throws a fuss over 2 millimetres more or less?

I just wish I could answer these questions myself, but most of the time I just really don't know the rules, and he's got free reign to make whatever up if he wishes it to be like that.

 

Help and responses would be more than appriciated!

 

-Forgefather

[JamesI]

The mindstrike missiles thing is legal. As long as he doesn't move more than 12 inches, he can fire all 4 in one go. And yes, each is its own weapon for weapon destroyed purposes. They do scatter though, that's about all the hope Njal has there.

 

A stormraven can take hurricane bolter sponsons. Like any sponson set, it takes 2 weapon destroyed to take out both.

 

I would say measuring range to shoot is part of the shooting phase. Now, in a friendly game I may allow an opponent to go back and deploy a unit he forgot, but that would be me being nice.

 

I don't know when hammerhand is cast, but I'm pretty sure it is cast in a particular phase (likely assault) and can be cast on either players turn.

[chromedog]

Hammerhand is cast at the start of the assault phase BEFORE blows are struck.

Either player's phase.

 

Deploying a unit from a skimmer in the shooting phase is a no-no (from a noob, forgivable, but not a second time. From someone who has been playing a while, not on at all).

 

Yes, mindstrikes can all be fired in one turn. They are S4, so defensive weapons.

This confuses Blood Angels players (also with stormravens) because BLOODstrikes are S8.

 

Yes, up to 8 weapon destroyed results to disarm it (2x sponsons, 2x twin linked weapons, 4xmindstrikes).

[Frosty the Pyro]

Hammerhand is cast at the start of the assault phase BEFORE blows are struck.

Either player's phase.

 

negitive.

 

They are cast AFTER assault moves but before blows are struck. An important distinction

 

 

Also this made me laugh

 

army with Njarl Stormcaller... and I don't like the magical mumbo-jumbo of complicated rules

 

as did this

 

incredibly overpowered a Grey Knight army is compared to a regular Space Marine army

[Valerian]

This is the part that made me laugh, frosty:

 

Him being a true-blood Grey Knight, he wines, and moans

 

V

[Forgefather]

Well, I wasn't planning to turn this into a long-dredging quote-fight regarding personal opinions, but here we go.

 

Also this made me laugh

 

QUOTE (Forgefather @ Oct 7 2011, 07:09 PM) *

army with Njarl Stormcaller... and I don't like the magical mumbo-jumbo of complicated rule

 

In my eyes, Njarl is straight-forward. He's got some fairly straight-forward ranged psychic attacks and a single unique effect psychic-effect wise, which is his whole storm business. Roll a D6, look at the chart, done.

 

What I do call complicated magical mumbo-jumbo would be the Grey Knight codex. I don't own it, I don't have illegal copies or files of it, and I don't want to spend a fair few hours reading trough another guy's codex to understand HIS spells. You might call it a requisite for a real hardcore tabletop gamer, but frankly, I only play this game every once in a while. I don't see the reason to read trough every single up-to-date Codex that's around.

 

as did this

 

QUOTE (Forgefather @ Oct 7 2011, 07:09 PM) *

incredibly overpowered a Grey Knight army is compared to a regular Space Marine army

 

A regular Space Marine army (and I'm comparing this to my Salamanders army) doesn't have a crapload of anti-pysker weapons, doesn't have upgraded Dreadnoughts in the shape of a Dreadknight, doesn't have a less-armour-but-flying-Land Raider, doesn't have Paladin squads (Int 6, instant kill, ignore armour saves, :cussload of attacks on the charge + banner, Feel No Pain)... doesn't have a heckload of useful psychic spells...

 

Sure it might be costy but it wipes the floor with a regular squad.

 

Aye, in my honest opinion (and that's an opinion, not a fact) I think that Grey Knights are indeed the elite Space Marines under the Space Marines.

 

 

Now could we stop laughing at people's opinions?

[thade]

It's not unusual for discussions to get a bit heated on the OR board, Mr. Forgefather, but you're pulling the gloves off a bit early here. The four responders above are frequent posters here...and good ones.

 

There is nothing intrinsically over- or under-powered about any of the codecies since 4th Ed Orks (which, really, are 5th Ed Orks). There's a bit of question as to whether recent FAQs have hindered Nids too much, but by and large the opinion around here (minus the usual number of QQers) is that the codices are decent matches for one another. A Vulkanized force is still just as viable as before, but will require different tactics against a GK force than against another marine force. For details, I recommend fishing around on the Ordos Inquisition forum.

 

Grey Knights are in fact the elite of the elite; that's what they are in story as well as army lists...and it's what you get for 20+ points per rank-and-file (when a typical rank-and-file marine costs 16 points). So, feel free to promote that from your opinion to general opinion, if not fact. <3

 

"Complicated, magical mumbo-jumbo" is not only an opinion you're entitled to, but it is - in fact - a funny way to word it.

 

Beyond that...I believe the original rules queries have been answered, no? :)

[Isiah]

Yep let's keep this level-headed and on rules issues only please gents.