Fire and Forge Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 I've only posted here a couple of times, but I've been lurking around as a guest for weeks. Most of my time is spent reading tactical articles and unit investigations. Some of my favored articles are "Tactical Terminators Tactica"(Mysticaria), "Sternguard: A Tactical Analysis"(DarkGuard), and "Killhammer Strategy Articles and Discussion"(Warp Angel). I've found all of these articles(and several others, but these were among the most influential) to have a significant effect on the way that I think about the game. Being a statistical geek, and spending a significant amount of time examining army lists looking at composition, I've been noticing some trends. In addition, I notice several generalized questions appearing in the Tactica section regarding army composition(How many troops choices to include, etc.). So, in an effort to prevent some recurrence of these questions, and present some food for thought for others, I'd like to do a statistical analysis of army lists to track some average trends. Pertinent information would include: - Preferred HQ choice(s). - Number of Troops choices(and preferred composition). - Preference toward Elite, Fast Attack, or Heavy Support, and selections therein. - Observed changes in game dynamics across points levels. I'm currently testing my system for this analysis using 10 lists, all at 1500 points, found on the Games Workshop website. However, examining these lists suggests more interest in selling models than actual gaming(not surprising). So while it is acting as a good test to set up criteria, I don't think that it would be of any tactical value. Would something like this be considered valuable to players here? It will essentially be a breakdown of 5th Edition army lists and common ways of building them. If you would care to help, I request the following information: An army list with points values(total list value and total unit values, not individual points cost) following and broken down into Standard FOC. Level of competition - major competition('Ard Boyz, etc.), minor competition(LGS tournaments), friendly competition(playing with friends). Fluff level - Following Chapter doctrine entirely(5), or simply using the color scheme and transfers(1)(scale of 1-5, DIY chapters would fall N/A) Codex used - I'll start with C:SM, but would like to expand into BA, BT, CSM, DA, and SW as it progresses. In order for this to work properly, the lists need to be tried-and-tested lists, not theoretical lists. Their overall effectiveness isn't a major issue, although a W-L-D listing would be helpful. If you're interested in helping out, shoot me a list here or via PM. Fire and Forge! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Hi there. First may I thank you for your kind words in regards to the Tactica articles, it's good to see people benefitting from them. The Killhammer ones in particular changed the way I perceived and played the game, they really are a gem. As for your project, I like the idea of it, although I do feel that this is one thing that's hard to pin down as everything is up to the player. However, I will try to help the best I can, so here's my latest list, 1750pts, for friendly and small competitive environments, using C:SM. =HQ= Chapter Master w/ relic blade, storm shield and digi weapons = 180pts Honour Guard w/ 5 men, Chapter Champion w/ relic blade, Chapter Banner, Rhino = 260pts Librarian w/ Null Zone and Avenger = 100pts =Elites= 8x Sternguard w/ heavy flamer, 3x combi-melta, power fist, Rhino = 285pts =Troops= 10x Tactical Marines w/ power fist, combi-melta, meltagun, plasma cannon, Rhino = 250pts 10x Tactical Marines w/ combi-plasma, plasma gun, lascannon, Razorback w/ las plas turret = 275pts =Fast Attack= 2x MM ABs = 100pts 2x Typhoons = 180pts =Heavy Support= Vindicator w/ dozer blade = 120pts Total = 1750pts So, helpful summary, I've got: HQ: 3 units, 540pts (30.8%) Elites: 1 unit, 285pts (16.4%) Troops: 2 units, 525pts (30%) Fast Attack: 2 units, 280pts (16%) Heavy Support: 1 unit, 120pts (6.8%) Percentages are rough and based around AB. Looks like most my points goes into HQ and Troops, fitting I suppose. Please note that this list can combat squad it's Tactical units effectively, or keep them together, giving me a potential of 4 scoring units in objective games while only presenting 2 KPs (plus DTs) in KP games. Hope this helps and is what you were looking for. EDIT: forgot to specify that my Chapter is a DIY Chapter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp Angel Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I've had no need to change my 2000 point army for a loooooong time. My tactics, yes. My army no. Variation is in weapon loadouts, not in units chosen. Captain on a Bike with Relic Blade, Artificer Armor, Hellfire Ammo Tactical Squad - Sgt PF, Flamer, Plasma Cannon, Razorback with Heavy Bolter Tactical Squad - Sgt PF, Melta Gun, Multi Melta, Rhino Bike Squad - Sgt PF, Melta Gun, Melta Gun, Multi-Melta attack bike 6x TH/SS Terminators Ironclad Dreadnaught with meltagun and ironclad launchers, Deathwind drop pod Land Raider Crusader w/Multi-Melta Vindicator Thunderfire Cannon Land Speeder Typhoon It plays funky and needs to be reactive to terrain, opponent, and current battlefield conditions to be effective, but I've never felt outmatched by anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destaro Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 This list has won me a couple of tournaments (not huge ones but one with 10 players and one with 25 or so) and has proven very effective in friendly games as well. This a DIY Chapter but fits well into the confines of their fluff. Small changes in weapon loadouts have crept in over time and sometimes the Extra Armor on the Dreadnought and the Whirlwind have been replcaed with a Thunderfire Cannon but here it is: i HQ (100) Librarian Powers: Null Zone Quickening Total=100 Troops (650) Scouts 5 additional Scouts Missile Launcher Camo Cloaks Total=180 Scouts Sgt: Power Fist Combi-Melta Total=110 Scouts Sgt: Power Fist Combi-Melta Total=110 Tactical Squad 5 additional Marines Plasma Cannon Melta Gun Rhino Sgt: Power Fist Combi-Melta Total=250 Elites (620) Terminator Assault Squad Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield (x5) Land Raider Redeemer Multi-Melta Extra Armor Total=465 Dreadnought Multi-Melta Extra Armor Drop Pod Total=155 Fast Attack (130) Land Speeder Storm Multi-Melta Total=65 Land Speeder Storm Multi-Melta Total=65 Heavy Support (350) Devastator Squad Missile Launcher (x2) Lascannon (x2) Razorback Twin-Linked Lascannon Total=265 Whirlwind 85 Army Total=1850 HQ- 1 unit, 100 points (5.4%) Troops- 4 units, 1 transport, 650 points (35.1%) Elites- 2 units, 2 transports, 620 points (33.5%) Fast Attack- 2 units, 130 points (7.0%) Heavy Support- 2 units, 1 transport, 350 points (18.9%) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak-73 Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Slightly off-topic if you are into competitive 40K, I recommend these sites: http://kirbysblog-ic.blogspot.com/ http://yesthetruthhurts.com/ Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muctar Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Here's my list from this year's 'Ard Boyz. It was very successful, helping me win both the preliminaries and semi-finals. Sadly, we won't see how it fares at the finals as I was unable to attend <_< It's an extension from lists starting at 1500 going up to 2500, many of which have won several tournaments at local game stores. I've tried to keep to the Salamanders fluff as much as possible, keeping out speeders, and limiting the use of fast attack and scouts. A squad of Firedrakes always makes it into the list to support their brothers with some precision killing. Playstyle generally consists of never reserving any units and hitting as hard and fast as possible. I try to keep my opponent on their heels and reacting to what I'm doing, rather than trying to counter their gameplan. HQ Vulkan He'stan - 190 Elites Assault Terminators - 5X T.Hammer & S.Shield - 200 Land Raider Redeemer - Multi-Melta, Extra Armor - 265 Sternguard - 5x combi-melta - 275 Rhino - 35 Dreadnought - 2x Twin-linked Autocannons - 125 Troops Tactical - Flamer, Plasma Cannon - 175 Rhino - 35 Tactical - Flamer, Plasma Cannon - 175 Rhino - 35 Tactical - Meltagun, Multi-Melta - 175 Rhino - 35 Tactical - Meltagun, Multi-Melta - 175 Rhino - 35 Fast Attack Attack Bikes - 2x Multi-Melta - 100 Attack Bikes - 2x Multi-Melta - 100 Heavy Support Vindicator - Siege Shield - 125 Vindicator - Siege Shield - 125 Predator - Lascannon Sponsons - 120 Total = 2500 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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