Spacefrisian Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Although why you want to use a captain in a Blood Angels army will probably elude most people. Bringing a BA captain isnt that bad, more freedom for choosing youre wargear should always be considered. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240059-ba-captains-again/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Byhlli Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Although why you want to use a captain in a Blood Angels army will probably elude most people. Bringing a BA captain isnt that bad, more freedom for choosing youre wargear should always be considered. The Blood Angels Captain is a good HQ choice. The problem is simply that we have several HQ choices who are significantly better. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240059-ba-captains-again/#findComment-2896497 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Although why you want to use a captain in a Blood Angels army will probably elude most people. Bringing a BA captain isnt that bad, more freedom for choosing youre wargear should always be considered. The Blood Angels Captain is a good HQ choice. The problem is simply that we have several HQ choices who are significantly better. The BA Captain is, at best, a mediocre HQ choice. He's certainly the last that I would look at, especially to go in a DC unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240059-ba-captains-again/#findComment-2896501 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 He is pretty godawful. Overcosted and brings nothing to the table besides some CC punch, which the Reclusiarch does just as well while also boosting the squad he is with. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240059-ba-captains-again/#findComment-2896579 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 this has been discussed alot of times before actually.... the captain is basicly the most mutable form of hq we have. there are options other find etter (its a matter of choice) as the captain only brings hitting power and isent a force multiplier. that said a captain with dual claws, jp and somehow also rerolling to hit rolls is a mighty scary opponent B) if he somehow also gets furious charge thats one hard hitting freight train! thing is you need 2 elite (or 1 elite, 1 hq) to pull that off so er..... ya theres defenitly better options :ph34r: sad fact that we miss out on some wargear options that vanilla marines do have make him somewhat un desireable to take. allowing artificer armour, relic blade (or blade encarmine) etc etc would at least have allowed us to have a fluffy option at least. generally he isent even that now :) That said i gave it a go (as people on the internet call it) 'for lolz' and i must say a thunderhammer captain with stormbolter was mighty fun :huh: specialy since he kept saving his invul saves. never seen my opponent sweeat so much ^_^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240059-ba-captains-again/#findComment-2896590 Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Captain with Thunder Hammer is actually a very good IC.. Yes he strikes at I1, but when he does wiith that WS.. Giving him a decent ranged weapon to take advantage of the WS is also a good idea, you can't go wrong with a Storm Bolter or Combi-Melta. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240059-ba-captains-again/#findComment-2896597 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Captain with Thunder Hammer is actually a very good IC.. Yes he strikes at I1, but when he does wiith that WS.. Giving him a decent ranged weapon to take advantage of the WS is also a good idea, you can't go wrong with a Storm Bolter or Combi-Melta. But by that point you're over 130 points and you could have a Reclusiarch that loses only 1 WS from the Captain's profile and makes his unit Fearless with re-rolls to hit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240059-ba-captains-again/#findComment-2896600 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 There aren't many things a Captain does that another character doesn't do better; giving him a Hammer or Fist is a waste of his initiative, as you can get better platforms in basically every squad (SG, ASM, VV, HG, etc.) A Reclusiarch has the boosted WS (enough to hit most models on 3s) and other stats long with the 4++ and can reroll misses on the charge. Libbys can get S10 attacks at initiative, which is a heck of a lot better than S8/9 at I1. The named chars are better at actual fighting, which a Captain is sorta mediocre at even when you just compare him to other characters and no squads. In SM, the Captain is a useful unlock for Command Squads and Biker troops. In BA, you don't need him for the former and don't get the latter, so there isn't a whole lot of role for him to serve. Lacking some of the options (like Artificer Armor) also puts them at a disadvantage, but realistically it's the presence of other characters who are pretty much strictly superior and cost the same/less that does them in. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240059-ba-captains-again/#findComment-2896605 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Landrain Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 The BA Captain is, the Tactical Squad of our HQ choices... They designers worked hard to make him as useless as possible, in comparison to all other HQ choices... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240059-ba-captains-again/#findComment-2896621 Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Captain with Thunder Hammer is actually a very good IC.. Yes he strikes at I1, but when he does wiith that WS.. Giving him a decent ranged weapon to take advantage of the WS is also a good idea, you can't go wrong with a Storm Bolter or Combi-Melta. But by that point you're over 130 points and you could have a Reclusiarch that loses only 1 WS from the Captain's profile and makes his unit Fearless with re-rolls to hit. Yeah but, so what? Does that make my 133 pts Captain with Thunder Hammer and Storm Bolter a poor choice? It only makes him less useful in certain situations. I could take my captain with a bunch of un-blinged ASM (5 ASMs with the cheapest upgrades for wound allocation; 1 flamer, 1 hand flamer, a 15 pt Razorback), charge in with 5 S10 attacks at WS6 and insta-kill a lot of T5 models (Nobs, Paladins, whatever), which is a completely different story than re-rolling to hit S4 marine attacks. I mean, apples and oranges man.. Not to mention that taking the Captain does not stop you from taking your Reclusiarch.. SMH.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240059-ba-captains-again/#findComment-2896624 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julius Firefocht Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Captain with Thunder Hammer is actually a very good IC.. Yes he strikes at I1, but when he does wiith that WS.. Giving him a decent ranged weapon to take advantage of the WS is also a good idea, you can't go wrong with a Storm Bolter or Combi-Melta. But by that point you're over 130 points and you could have a Reclusiarch that loses only 1 WS from the Captain's profile and makes his unit Fearless with re-rolls to hit. Yeah but, so what? Does that make my 133 pts Captain with Thunder Hammer and Storm Bolter a poor choice? It only makes him less useful in certain situations. I could take my captain with a bunch of un-blinged ASM (5 ASMs with the cheapest upgrades for wound allocation; 1 flamer, 1 hand flamer, a 15 pt Razorback), charge in with 5 S10 attacks at WS6 and insta-kill a lot of T5 models (Nobs, Paladins, whatever), which is a completely different story than re-rolling to hit S4 marine attacks. I mean, apples and oranges man.. Not to mention that taking the Captain does not stop you from taking your Reclusiarch.. SMH.. How did you end up with 5 S10 attacks at WS6? No matter how I go through the numbers, I end up at a maximum of 4 S9 attacks, after taking into account furious charge and charge bonus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240059-ba-captains-again/#findComment-2896649 Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 How did you end up with 5 S10 attacks at WS6? No matter how I go through the numbers, I end up at a maximum of 4 S9 attacks, after taking into account furious charge and charge bonus. Work + bad math; you're right. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240059-ba-captains-again/#findComment-2896654 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Captain with Thunder Hammer is actually a very good IC.. Yes he strikes at I1, but when he does wiith that WS.. Giving him a decent ranged weapon to take advantage of the WS is also a good idea, you can't go wrong with a Storm Bolter or Combi-Melta. But by that point you're over 130 points and you could have a Reclusiarch that loses only 1 WS from the Captain's profile and makes his unit Fearless with re-rolls to hit. Yeah but, so what? Does that make my 133 pts Captain with Thunder Hammer and Storm Bolter a poor choice? It only makes him less useful in certain situations. I could take my captain with a bunch of un-blinged ASM (5 ASMs with the cheapest upgrades for wound allocation; 1 flamer, 1 hand flamer, a 15 pt Razorback), charge in with 5 S10 attacks at WS6 and insta-kill a lot of T5 models (Nobs, Paladins, whatever), which is a completely different story than re-rolling to hit S4 marine attacks. I mean, apples and oranges man.. Not to mention that taking the Captain does not stop you from taking your Reclusiarch.. SMH.. You can only upgrade 2 models in a 5-man ASM squad - the Sarge and one other. So the wound allocation doesn't really matter much. Also, the Razorback is 20 points minimum and, as already pointed out, the Captain gets 4 S9 attacks. Leaving all that aside though, statistically speaking, against MEQ the Reclusiarch will do exactly the same amount of wounds (2.22) as the Captain, but at a higher Initiative, and the rerolls in the squad result in more wounds from them (2.22 vs 1.66). So you have to balance whether the effects of the Thunder Hammer are worth the loss of damage from the squad and whether the increased number of return attacks due to the Captain hitting last, are something you can handle. Plus, the Reclusiarch makes the squad Fearless (which has pros and cons). Unless you're playing very large games, I doubt you'll bother taking both Reclusiarch and Captain. And in a straight 1v1 choice, IMO the Reclusiarch (and the Librarian) offer more. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240059-ba-captains-again/#findComment-2896681 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roesor Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 I was going to do BA a while ago...I much prefer maiing my own commanders. What put me off was the lack of artificer option to be honest. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240059-ba-captains-again/#findComment-2896687 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khavos Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 I had such hopes for vanilla characters after Space Wolves were released; you had the option to throw special rules on your Wolf Lord, you could run him in any configuration you wanted, and there wasn't any wargear, to my recollection, that he wasn't allowed to take. Then out came Blood Angels, allowing you fewer options than even the vanilla Marine 'dex, seemingly purely out of the tradition that the Space Marine Captain in the previous BA codex also sucked. Everybody should learn a thing or two from Kelly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240059-ba-captains-again/#findComment-2896694 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eorek Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Imo captains in BA dex kinda deserved having some special rule like Rites of battle(Units get's to use your captains LD for morale...And since I don't have the codex at hand I have to ask: Does Tycho/seth have this special rule?) This would have made captains a valid option to the reclusiarch and librarian. Then the lack of artificer armour wouldn't have been that bad... Now we can't even do a SS,AA, relicblade tank marine that is popular in my gaming group among Vanilla marine players. Anything the captain can do another unit can do better basically... be it from carrying a powerfist to being the one that tips the balance in close combat. This is my take on it anyways. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240059-ba-captains-again/#findComment-2896701 Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Tycho has Rites of Battle. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240059-ba-captains-again/#findComment-2896709 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Tycho has Rites of Battle. I sometimes flirt with the idea of putting Tycho in a list but the cost puts me off. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240059-ba-captains-again/#findComment-2896710 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roesor Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Plus the fact he's actually dead? o.O Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240059-ba-captains-again/#findComment-2896713 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eorek Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 make tycho throw away his bolter for a stormshield and give him a jump pack... Now there is a character I'd use ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240059-ba-captains-again/#findComment-2896715 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Then out came Blood Angels, allowing you fewer options than even the vanilla Marine 'dex, seemingly purely out of the tradition that the Space Marine Captain in the previous BA codex also sucked. I can't believe we once had LD9 Captains... It is daft though. Only Captain Tycho has Rites of Battle where no other (Not even Seth or Dante) do and without the ability to take anything of note my two Captains (classic model and a Terminator one) will be gathering dust. That said I actually used Captain Tycho in an Apocalypse game recently and ran him with my Sternguard in a Razorback. Perhaps he has a niche there... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240059-ba-captains-again/#findComment-2896749 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 get a captain with th into an ig parking lot and see how quickly those russ squadrons regret their existance maybe? Just a thought... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240059-ba-captains-again/#findComment-2896755 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 get a captain with th into an ig parking lot and see how quickly those russ squadrons regret their existance maybe? Just a thought... Any model with a TH can do that though. Granted you can have one extra attack with the Captain but you're wasting his WS. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240059-ba-captains-again/#findComment-2896759 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Tycho is a beast ! G Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240059-ba-captains-again/#findComment-2896780 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Landrain Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 get a captain with th into an ig parking lot and see how quickly those russ squadrons regret their existance maybe? Just a thought... Any model with a TH can do that though. Granted you can have one extra attack with the Captain but you're wasting his WS. Librarian with Blood Lance does it better and cheaper.. and can hit more than one tank a turn, oh and the Armor just drop to 12 too? I wish there was something good about BA Captains, but there isn't. The missing Artificer Armour is just a slap in the face, considering Sang Guard all wear it.. And any HQ gets an Honour Guard. At least with C:SM Captains they unlock Apothecaries... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240059-ba-captains-again/#findComment-2896783 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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