spec.ops Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I use a BA CPT in one of my more competitive lists. =O It sounds odd, but since he cost only 100pts it allows me to get everything I want for my other slots. On the down side he just sits in the back looking important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Landrain Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I use a BA CPT in one of my more competitive lists. =O It sounds odd, but since he cost only 100pts it allows me to get everything I want for my other slots. On the down side he just sits in the back looking important. See, but a Librarian would be much more usefull.. For the same 100 pts. Even if he just sits in the back looking important... He can still cast shield of sanguinius and give any tanks/devs/etc within a 6" a 5+ cover save. He can try to Hood any enemy Psychic Powers within a 24" bubble. He can get a 24" range psychic shooting attack. Since a Captain and a Librarian have same ranged weapon options, there is no effective difference. The only real difference is no 4++ save, One fewer wound, and extra CC special weapon options. None of which would mean much if you aren't using him at the front lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I think it's kind of silly that you need a high ranking officer to oversee every little skirmish, specially in an elite force like space marines. I dunno, if I would call 40+ Marines on the field "a little skirmish," that's half a Battle Company... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Back in the dim distant past, the Captain had a Lieutenant who would seem ideal for some of the smaller engagements. After all, even if there are 40 marines on the field, there's another 60 from the same company somewhere else. The Captain can't be everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackKnight1239 Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I usually just consider my fanciest Veteran Sergeant to be the strike force leader, while the Libby or Chaplain hanging around is just moral support. But having a 2 wound, 50pt-ish character would be rather useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khurdur Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 captians, they are cool and more fluffy, but as opposed to SM just have no options to make them half-way useful...an SM capt can have artificier armour and a relic blade, meaning he won't die easily....a blood angels capt well can have a power weap, infernus pistol and JP, in a unit of SG with banner, for 155p and has 5 S4 attacks, 6 on the charge..which is well ok. though, a libby can cast spells, and has a hood, for less points. A reclusiarch can have as many attacks and allows his unit to re-roll-the other HQs are better...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spec.ops Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I use a BA CPT in one of my more competitive lists. =O It sounds odd, but since he cost only 100pts it allows me to get everything I want for my other slots. On the down side he just sits in the back looking important. See, but a Librarian would be much more usefull.. For the same 100 pts. Even if he just sits in the back looking important... He can still cast shield of sanguinius and give any tanks/devs/etc within a 6" a 5+ cover save. He can try to Hood any enemy Psychic Powers within a 24" bubble. He can get a 24" range psychic shooting attack. Since a Captain and a Librarian have same ranged weapon options, there is no effective difference. The only real difference is no 4++ save, One fewer wound, and extra CC special weapon options. None of which would mean much if you aren't using him at the front lines. 99% you are correct. A Lib in almost any situation is better than a CPT; however, I am in that 1%. I will receive zero benefit from either HQ at base points sitting in the rear with the gear. But, why not take an extra wound and 4++ just for the hell of it for the same price? That's my 1% reason why I take a CPT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddywarcrimes Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 captians, they are cool and more fluffy, but as opposed to SM just have no options to make them half-way useful...an SM capt can have artificier armour and a relic blade, meaning he won't die easily....a blood angels capt well can have a power weap, infernus pistol and JP, in a unit of SG with banner, for 155p and has 5 S4 attacks, 6 on the charge..which is well ok. though, a libby can cast spells, and has a hood, for less points. A reclusiarch can have as many attacks and allows his unit to re-roll-the other HQs are better...... Giving them back Rites of Battle is all that they need to be useful. That alone would go a long way towards putting BA Captains back on the board. And I'm with the folks to who tend to consider one of their Veteran Sergeants as the detachment commander, with the Librarian or Reclusiarch as an attached support specialist. By being outside of the Battle Company structure, they're outside the chain of command, so I can't imagine that they'd have any degree of operational authority, especially not compared to a 300 year old Vanguard or Tactical Squad sergeant, who'd also have the training and experience to make use of that authority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lesek Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I usually just consider my fanciest Veteran Sergeant to be the strike force leader, while the Libby or Chaplain hanging around is just moral support. I'd never considered the setup that way before, but will do from now on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunargent Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I use Dante so I don't have to worry about the "command authority" problem of taking a Librarian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deschenus Maximus Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 I usually just consider my fanciest Veteran Sergeant to be the strike force leader, while the Libby or Chaplain hanging around is just moral support. I'd never considered the setup that way before, but will do from now on! Same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackKnight1239 Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 captians, they are cool and more fluffy, but as opposed to SM just have no options to make them half-way useful...an SM capt can have artificier armour and a relic blade, meaning he won't die easily....a blood angels capt well can have a power weap, infernus pistol and JP, in a unit of SG with banner, for 155p and has 5 S4 attacks, 6 on the charge..which is well ok. though, a libby can cast spells, and has a hood, for less points. A reclusiarch can have as many attacks and allows his unit to re-roll-the other HQs are better...... Giving them back Rites of Battle is all that they need to be useful. That alone would go a long way towards putting BA Captains back on the board. And I'm with the folks to who tend to consider one of their Veteran Sergeants as the detachment commander, with the Librarian or Reclusiarch as an attached support specialist. By being outside of the Battle Company structure, they're outside the chain of command, so I can't imagine that they'd have any degree of operational authority, especially not compared to a 300 year old or Tactical Squad sergeant, who'd also have the training and experience to make use of that authority. I'd think that a Librarian could be given the option of command, if the mission was centered around the Warp, daemons, or other Chaos-y things. Chaplains, at the in the Codex Astartes, are attached to Companys, so they may have some authority there. In the Blood Angels, they are outside the companies, and the High Chaplain is one of the dudes who chooses the new Chapter Master, so I'd think they would have some kind of authority. Of course, I would figure leadership is up to Dante or a company master; who ever is leading the offensive, so either choice makes sense. I still like Vet. Sgts the best, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 I'd think that a Librarian could be given the option of command, if the mission was centered around the Warp, daemons, or other Chaos-y things. Chaplains, at the in the Codex Astartes, are attached to Companys, so they may have some authority there. In the Blood Angels, they are outside the companies, and the High Chaplain is one of the dudes who chooses the new Chapter Master, so I'd think they would have some kind of authority. Of course, I would figure leadership is up to Dante or a company master; who ever is leading the offensive, so either choice makes sense. I still like Vet. Sgts the best, though. I agree with Daddywarcrimes. Veteran Sergeants are sometimes even promoted to the Captain's rank when he fell in battle. And I also say that Reclusiarchs/Librarians are not leading strikeforces, campaigns skirmishes etc. The Captain has all the authority, and when sending troops under his command into battle, he will barely sit at baal and watch it per warp-vision, slurping a cup of tea while listening to Bach and pondering paintings of renaissance artists. Our Chappies/Libbies are merely supporting units, the Librarians' primary role is not even on the battlefield but, as their name suggests, in the Chapter Library(if you wish to call it so), writing up the honourous deeds of their brothers for that their names shall never be forgotten. The Chaplains care about the spiritual health of our Marines, and they search, along with the Sanguinary Priesthood, for a cure of the curse. In Battle, they lead the Brethren of the DC into the heart of the enemies' ranks, and are barely able to command the rest of the strike force. A company needs its Captain. In times of war and in times of peace. He represents the Company, the Chapter and its very honour and is only second to Dante himself. Snorri PS: The only thing that's missing, is a little Rites of Battle and Artificer Armour. The entry would be perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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