New Chapter 2.0

[CKO]

Post 12 is short outline for those following the guide.

 

I started a thread that focused on how our comments impact others IAs and it helps you understand the reasoning behind critics. In the thread Ace Debonair was inspired by Brother Tyler post and decided that maybe if you allowed others to critic your ideas instead of a complete IA it might lead to a better IA. In this thread Ace has started a new innovative way to present IA's ideas, I wish him the best of luck but I to am going to attempt to present my IA's ideas in a new way aswell. Mac vs PC doesnt matter to me hopefully both of our ideas work and they become new easier ways to develop IAs.

 

The first and most important part of presenting your ideas in this "New Style" is stating the differentiating characteristics of your chapter. The reader/critic will then have the responsibility of deciding if it is reasonable or not, I have already done this in this thread. After that you will present small sections of written material and the goal or purpose it has within the IA. The reader/critic will then have the responsibility of evaluating the goal of the written material. If something is wrong with the goal state why and give possible solutions. If the goal is fine the reader will read the material and make suggestions as normal, but while reading the critic should constantly ask themselves is this section meeting the goal and helping differentiate the chapter.

 

Unique Traits:

A chapter that specializes in fear/terror tactics.

 

Goal:

First part of origins section, developing the scene where the chapter makes its introduction.

 

Origins:

 

Shortly after the 11th founding the Lacior system located in the Pacificus Segmentum was starting to have a flourishing economy. The system consisted of eight planets which all contribute to the systems booming economy. The upper class also known as the Laciorist had a monopoly of the economy, but also wanted complete control over the system. The Laciorist use their wealth to gain control of the military by taking advantage of greedy military officers. With control over both the military and economy the Laciorist had absolute power over the system and decided to focus the majority of it resources into the military, in hopes of expansion.

 

The Laciorist were able to gain rule over several nearby worlds by using either their wealth or elaborate displays of military might. These new worlds were force to pay taxes to the Laciorist, however the planets could not afford to pay their taxes and tithes to the Imperium. After two centuries the slow delegating Departmento Munitorum finally noticed that an entire sector had not paid its tithes in nearly two hundred years. The Deparmento immediately sent out an armed force to investigate the situation.

 

Once the Imperial Army reached Lacior they made several demands; the Imperial Governor of Lacior was to be arrested, management of the economy be handed over, and all military forces disarmed themselves. The Imperial Governor informed the Imperial Commander that Lacior was self – efficient and was withdrawing from the Imperium and would not meet their demands, shortly after Lacior’s fleet annihilated the Imperial Army.

 

The news of rebellion was common place during this time and was one of the reasons for the 11th founding. The High Lords of Terra decided to send one of its new chapters of marines to squash the rebellion. This was to be the Golden Angels first major campaign, and like all Astartes they were eager to test their might.

[Ace Debonair]

Mac vs PC doesnt matter to me hopefully both of our ideas work and they become new easier ways to develop IAs.

 

Agreed. :D

 

The reader/critic will then have the responsibility of evaluating the goal of the written material. If something is wrong with the goal state why and give possible solutions. If the goal is fine the reader will read the material and make suggestions as normal, but while reading the critic should constantly ask themselves is this section meeting the goal and helping differentiate the chapter.

 

Gotcha, I think.

 

On to the C&C!

 

In truth, I think you're on the right track, with maybe one fault:

 

The news of rebellion was common place during this time and was one of the reasons for the 11th founding. The High Lords of Terra decided to send one of its new chapters of marines to squash the rebellion. This was to be the Golden Angels first major campaign, and like all Astartes they were eager to test their might.

 

I think a more... frightening name than Golden Angels might make it easier to build a fear-inspiring chapter. :P

How about the Phantom Hands as a name?

 

I approve of the 11th founding choice - plenty of time for their reputation to build before 'modern day'. Likewise, rebellious humans might be easier to intimidate than say orks or eldar.

 

Other ideas that occured to me:

Geneseed: I was wondering about this. You could use Iron Hands geneseed, and take the twist that they are using fear tactics to turn the enemy's weakness against them. Just something to consider.

 

Combat Doctrine: Against enemies that are basically hard to intimidate, like Orks, your Chapter should probably just put their focus on fighting like any other chapter, although I suppose ambushes and surprise attacks work on everybody, so there's still room for some doctrinal preferences.

 

As usual, feel free to discard any of my suggestions you don't like. ^_^

[Octavulg]

decided that maybe if you allowed others to critic your ideas instead of a complete IA it might lead to a better IA.

 

...I've been telling people to do that for years. Seriously. It's in the Octaguide and everything.

[CKO]

I think a more... frightening name than Golden Angels might make it easier to build a fear-inspiring chapter. :P

How about the Phantom Hands as a name?

 

There will be a name change, I only called them Golden Angels because of my color scheme. :P Their golden armour will later own become apart of their fear factor attacking at a certain time where the sunlight reflects off of their vehicles and armour.

 

I approve of the 11th founding choice - plenty of time for their reputation to build before 'modern day'. Likewise, rebellious humans might be easier to intimidate than say orks or eldar.

 

I just came up with the 11th founding but you are correct the founding needs to be early enough to develop a reputation.

 

Other ideas that occured to me:

Geneseed: I was wondering about this. You could use Iron Hands geneseed, and take the twist that they are using fear tactics to turn the enemy's weakness against them. Just something to consider.

 

You are right that would be the best choice but I am using one of Dorn's chapters. I want there to be a transformation in the way that they behave.

 

Combat Doctrine: Against enemies that are basically hard to intimidate, like Orks, your Chapter should probably just put their focus on fighting like any other chapter, although I suppose ambushes and surprise attacks work on everybody, so there's still room for some doctrinal preferences.

 

I cant wait to get to this section as I have some really cool unique ideas that hopefully will make my chapter standout. That is a major problem I have however is how do I deal with xenos, fear and terror tactics is useless.

 

Thanks Ace and good luck with the Steel Dragons!

 

...I've been telling people to do that for years. Seriously. It's in the Octaguide and everything.

 

What is not in the octaguide? Your guide is wonderful but it is to complex for the average writer or a 40k player who wants to fit his chapter into the 40k universe. Perhaps if you can make a simple version of it.

[Octavulg]

CKO

What is not in the octaguide? Your guide is wonderful but it is to complex for the average writer or a 40k player who wants to fit his chapter into the 40k universe. Perhaps if you can make a simple version of it.

 

Quite simply, I'm concerned that there's no point to a simple version. There are people kicking around who have never read the DIY Guide. And not just the niche bits that aren't always useful - any of it. And the DIY Guide's already simpler than I'd be entirely comfortable with. A simpler guide would seem likely to fail - the people who already read the current one wouldn't need it, and I don't think I can make it simple enough to attract the people who don't read it now.

 

I would also point out that it's supposed to be a walkthrough, not bedtime reading. It was never intended to be read in one sitting (or even two). Sections are to be referred to as needed (though the order they're in is the order you should read if you're completely new to the Liber).

 

Anyway, I'm curious: have you read the thing? If yes, where did you feel it could be simplified?

 

Unique Traits:

A chapter that specializes in fear/terror tactics.

 

Fine.

 

Goal:

First part of origins section, developing the scene where the chapter makes its introduction.

 

This is a bad way to do it.

 

Why? Well, we'll let the Octaguide talk about it. :lol:

 

"Outlines are wonderful. They allow you to plan out the entire IA without actually writing the IA, force you to think about your ideas, and allow quick and easy critique which produces solutions that are quickly and easily implemented. At this stage, new ideas are easy to incorporate if people offer them. ... What an outline does is put your ideas into the format and terms of an IA, and force you to look at the thing as a whole. Lots of people begin an IA at the beginning, and end up with thousands and thousands of words before they're out of the first section. Lots of people start writing a particular section, then write another section, then another, all without any apparent plan or cohesion, and the damn thing never gets finished. "

 

And there's a third option: they do finish the IA, and it's not particularly coherent (since there was no big picture) and it took five times as much work (since the author had to do a lot of rewriting every time something changed).

 

IAs are about the big picture, not the details. You're supposed to give us close-ups of the puzzle pieces, yes, but the picture is more important. Setting out to make a puzzle by making all the pieces individually produces a puzzle that doesn't look like anything and wastes a lot of cardboard. (I could have sworn I explained why to outline in the Octaguide, but I can't find it. Maybe I cut the overlong explanation in favor of just telling people what to do. It may have seemed simpler. :huh:)

 

* * *

Shortly after the 11th founding the Lacior system located in the Pacificus Segmentum was starting to have a flourishing economy. The system consisted of eight planets which all contribute to the systems booming economy. The upper class also known as the Laciorist had a monopoly of the economy, but also wanted complete control over the system. The Laciorist use their wealth to gain control of the military by taking advantage of greedy military officers. With control over both the military and economy the Laciorist had absolute power over the system and decided to focus the majority of it resources into the military, in hopes of expansion.

 

The Laciorist were able to gain rule over several nearby worlds by using either their wealth or elaborate displays of military might. These new worlds were force to pay taxes to the Laciorist, however the planets could not afford to pay their taxes and tithes to the Imperium. After two centuries the slow delegating Departmento Munitorum finally noticed that an entire sector had not paid its tithes in nearly two hundred years. The Deparmento immediately sent out an armed force to investigate the situation.

 

Once the Imperial Army reached Lacior they made several demands; the Imperial Governor of Lacior was to be arrested, management of the economy be handed over, and all military forces disarmed themselves. The Imperial Governor informed the Imperial Commander that Lacior was self – efficient and was withdrawing from the Imperium and would not meet their demands, shortly after Lacior’s fleet annihilated the Imperial Army.

 

The news of rebellion was common place during this time and was one of the reasons for the 11th founding. The High Lords of Terra decided to send one of its new chapters of marines to squash the rebellion. This was to be the Golden Angels first major campaign, and like all Astartes they were eager to test their might.

 

"The Golden Angels were part of the Eleventh Founding, and were immediately tasked with destroying the Laciorist Rebellion. The Laciorist were the venal merchant-princes of the Lacior system, and their deep pockets had secured them a powerful fleet and an unwarranted belief in their own security from Imperial might."

 

That's the important information from what you just wrote, presented in as much detail as is necessary.

 

From the Octaguide:

 

"Shorter is almost always better

Find extraneous words. Cut them. Find extraneous sentences. Cut them. With every sentence, ask yourself what this adds to the IA. With every word, ask yourself whether you need it, whether you could say it better in fewer words (or as well in fewer words). Don't be afraid to expand every so often, but make sure that everything does something. Look at paragraphs. Ask why they're so long, and what you can do about it. The best writing is, to quote Mr. Croshaw, short and punchy.

 

Some people say it with diamonds. You should be saying it with less.

 

I will now tell the story of Spider Robinson.

 

So Spider sends this story to his editor. And his editor calls him and says "It's great. Now cut 1000 words."

 

Spider explains how he can't do this. The editor tells him to pretend that someone's paying him a dollar for each word he cuts. Spider succeeds in cutting 500 words, but can't do any more. He calls his editor back and tells him so.

 

The editor suggests that Spider pretend that someone will break a bone (one of Spider's, that is) for each word Spider's over. The joke's on the editor, of course, because Spider doesn't have 500 bones!

 

Spider cuts another 500, crying inside. Then he rereads it, and discovers that it's a much better story.

 

You can argue with me. But Spider Robinson has won three Hugos, a Nebula, the John W. Campbell Award for Best New Writer and the Robert A. Heinlein Award. He knows how to write, better than you or me or both of us put together. And cutting down his word count improved his writing.

 

Draw your own conclusions. "

 

It may be complicated, but it saves me typing. :P

[CKO]

Quite simply, I'm concerned that there's no point to a simple version. There are people kicking around who have never read the DIY Guide. And not just the niche bits that aren't always useful - any of it. And the DIY Guide's already simpler than I'd be entirely comfortable with. A simpler guide would seem likely to fail - the people who already read the current one wouldn't need it, and I don't think I can make it simple enough to attract the people who don't read it now.

 

I would also point out that it's supposed to be a walkthrough, not bedtime reading. It was never intended to be read in one sitting (or even two). Sections are to be referred to as needed (though the order they're in is the order you should read if you're completely new to the Liber).

 

Anyway, I'm curious: have you read the thing? If yes, where did you feel it could be simplified?

 

Honestly I believe I have read most of it but it was a long time ago, I need to re-read it as you are constantly updating it. I get what you are saying you cant make a simple version but can you perhaps create a section for the minority who just want to create a minature IA.

 

This is a bad way to do it.

 

Why? Well, we'll let the Octaguide talk about it. :huh:

 

"Outlines are wonderful. They allow you to plan out the entire IA without actually writing the IA, force you to think about your ideas, and allow quick and easy critique which produces solutions that are quickly and easily implemented. At this stage, new ideas are easy to incorporate if people offer them. ... What an outline does is put your ideas into the format and terms of an IA, and force you to look at the thing as a whole. Lots of people begin an IA at the beginning, and end up with thousands and thousands of words before they're out of the first section. Lots of people start writing a particular section, then write another section, then another, all without any apparent plan or cohesion, and the damn thing never gets finished. "

 

I am not saying this is how to format your IA, I am simply stating this is the first part of the origin section. I agree with you thats why I have an outline I just havent shared it. I want the reader to evaluate each piece I submit, by telling them the goal of the written material they can keep me on track and tell me when something is completely different than the theme.

 

And there's a third option: they do finish the IA, and it's not particularly coherent (since there was no big picture) and it took five times as much work (since the author had to do a lot of rewriting every time something changed).

 

That is why I am presenting piece by piece to prevent re-writing if there is a problem it is fixed there and then allowing me to continue on without worrying about back tracking.

 

IAs are about the big picture, not the details. You're supposed to give us close-ups of the puzzle pieces, yes, but the picture is more important. Setting out to make a puzzle by making all the pieces individually produces a puzzle that doesn't look like anything and wastes a lot of cardboard. (I could have sworn I explained why to outline in the Octaguide, but I can't find it. Maybe I cut the overlong explanation in favor of just telling people what to do. It may have seemed simpler. :D)

 

I see where you are coming from but at the end of the day the pieces make the puzzle I am just seeing what people think of the pieces while I am putting them together to make the big picture, because nothing ruins a puzzle like a mutant puzzle piece.

 

"The Golden Angels were part of the Eleventh Founding, and were immediately tasked with destroying the Laciorist Rebellion. The Laciorist were the venal merchant-princes of the Lacior system, and their deep pockets had secured them a powerful fleet and an unwarranted belief in their own security from Imperial might."

 

That's the important information from what you just wrote, presented in as much detail as is necessary.

 

http://images.wikia.com/bleach/en/images/b/b1/Yammy_punches_Kenpachi.png

 

:cuss you know how long it took me to write that? You see how easy that was for you this paradigm is killing me! You are right I should try my best to make it shorter but on that note I am off to read your guide!

[Shinzaren]

The first and most important part of presenting your ideas in this "New Style" is stating the differentiating characteristics of your chapter. The reader/critic will then have the responsibility of deciding if it is reasonable or not, I have already done this in this thread. After that you will present small sections of written material and the goal or purpose it has within the IA. The reader/critic will then have the responsibility of evaluating the goal of the written material. If something is wrong with the goal state why and give possible solutions. If the goal is fine the reader will read the material and make suggestions as normal, but while reading the critic should constantly ask themselves is this section meeting the goal and helping differentiate the chapter.

I think this is an excellent goal and a great idea, and I look forward to seeing how your initial chapter building goes. Hopefully I can help in some small way :cuss

 

Unique Traits:

A chapter that specializes in fear/terror tactics.

How much terror? It is also important to remember that most alien species don't feel fear the same way humans do, and wouldn't be terrified of the same things. Perhaps they devote themselves mostly to hunting down and destroying traitorous worlds, rogue systems, and other, more human-like, enemies?

 

Shortly after the 11th founding the Lacior system located in the Pacificus Segmentum was starting to have a flourishing economy. The system consisted of eight planets which all contribute to the systems booming economy. The upper class also known as the Laciorist had a monopoly of the economy, but also wanted complete control over the system. The Laciorist use their wealth to gain control of the military by taking advantage of greedy military officers. With control over both the military and economy the Laciorist had absolute power over the system and decided to focus the majority of it resources into the military, in hopes of expansion.

This is a decent sized paragraph that can summed in a shorter version and combined with the next paragraph. Perhaps just explain the ruling elite dominated the economy and used their wealth to control the military, and eventually, the system. Space Marines are sent in to quash the puny heretics?

 

The Laciorist were able to gain rule over several nearby worlds by using either their wealth or elaborate displays of military might. These new worlds were force to pay taxes to the Laciorist, however the planets could not afford to pay their taxes and tithes to the Imperium. After two centuries the slow delegating Departmento Munitorum finally noticed that an entire sector had not paid its tithes in nearly two hundred years. The Deparmento immediately sent out an armed force to investigate the situation.

 

Once the Imperial Army reached Lacior they made several demands; the Imperial Governor of Lacior was to be arrested, management of the economy be handed over, and all military forces disarmed themselves. The Imperial Governor informed the Imperial Commander that Lacior was self – efficient and was withdrawing from the Imperium and would not meet their demands, shortly after Lacior’s fleet annihilated the Imperial Army.

 

The news of rebellion was common place during this time and was one of the reasons for the 11th founding. The High Lords of Terra decided to send one of its new chapters of marines to squash the rebellion. This was to be the Golden Angels first major campaign, and like all Astartes they were eager to test their might.

While giving lots of backround is a good way to start, almost none of this concerns your future chapter, the Golden Angels. Summarize in a single paragraph that the ruling class took over and decided to secede from the Imperium and the Golden Angels were sent to stop them. Then use the Origins section to highlight how the Golden Angels accomplished this, and what effect it had on the chapter as a whole. Otherwise, its a decent start, setting the heretic system whose battles will mold the Golden Angels. Looking forward to keeping up with this.

[CKO]

I think this is an excellent goal and a great idea, and I look forward to seeing how your initial chapter building goes. Hopefully I can help in some small way :cuss

 

Thanks I think it is a good idea aswell, and I hope you continue to help as your suggestions are always helpful.

 

How much terror? It is also important to remember that most alien species don't feel fear the same way humans do, and wouldn't be terrified of the same things. Perhaps they devote themselves mostly to hunting down and destroying traitorous worlds, rogue systems, and other, more human-like, enemies?

 

I really have no choice but to target certain areas as terror tactics will not work on xenos.

 

This is a decent sized paragraph that can summed in a shorter version and combined with the next paragraph. Perhaps just explain the ruling elite dominated the economy and used their wealth to control the military, and eventually, the system. Space Marines are sent in to quash the puny heretics?

 

Shorter is better got it.

 

While giving lots of backround is a good way to start, almost none of this concerns your future chapter, the Golden Angels. Summarize in a single paragraph that the ruling class took over and decided to secede from the Imperium and the Golden Angels were sent to stop them. Then use the Origins section to highlight how the Golden Angels accomplished this, and what effect it had on the chapter as a whole. Otherwise, its a decent start, setting the heretic system whose battles will mold the Golden Angels. Looking forward to keeping up with this.

 

I will make it into one paragraph and start writing about how they regained control of the system, right after I finish reading the Octaguide!

[Octavulg]

Honestly I believe I have read most of it but it was a long time ago, I need to re-read it as you are constantly updating it. I get what you are saying you cant make a simple version but can you perhaps create a section for the minority who just want to create a minature IA.

 

Actually, I hadn't updated it since last year, if the datestamp is to be believed. :cuss

 

Which bits are excessive, then? That's the thing - even with a smaller IA, all of the same things are going to need consideration. I'm genuinely interested in where you think I can cut things down. I'm sure there are places, I'm just not sure what they are.

 

I am not saying this is how to format your IA, I am simply stating this is the first part of the origin section. I agree with you thats why I have an outline I just havent shared it. I want the reader to evaluate each piece I submit, by telling them the goal of the written material they can keep me on track and tell me when something is completely different than the theme.

 

You're missing the point.

 

If you present the IA in mostly-completed pieces (as opposed to as an outline), you will run into three problems. First, it is hard for people to see the big picture, which can impact their ability to offer useful, helpful critique and suggestions. Second, if you decide you need to change something, you're throwing out a lot of writing: at minimum, the stuff you changed, but also possibly things that were influenced by that stuff.

 

That's why presenting things piecemeal instead of as an outline is a bad idea (as well as the reasons I mentioned last time).

 

I'm not saying you're formatting wrong, I'm saying that you're presenting your information wrong. You could write this as an epic poem, so long as you showed me an outline first. :D

 

That is why I am presenting piece by piece to prevent re-writing if there is a problem it is fixed there and then allowing me to continue on without worrying about back tracking.

 

If you give us all the information at once in an outline, we can see the big picture and make suggestions accordingly. You can avoid a lot of backtracking because there won't be anywhere to backtrack to yet - all you'll have to change will be a line or two. New ideas can be easily worked into the existing ones. People are shown more ideas, and so are more likely to see something they like or something that gives them some inspired ideas to share.

 

If you insist on writing everything out piece by piece, we won't see the big picture and when someone notices a problem that section five causes in section three you'll end up backtracking anyway.

 

Seriously dude. Trust me. You'd be far better off telling us what you want out of the chapter and showing us the whole outline.

 

I see where you are coming from but at the end of the day the pieces make the puzzle I am just seeing what people think of the pieces while I am putting them together to make the big picture, because nothing ruins a puzzle like a mutant puzzle piece.

 

The easiest way I can think of to get mutant puzzle pieces is to refuse to show anyone the picture. :huh: The big picture is what matters, remember. Puzzle pieces will change, but the picture is what's important. This is about the chapter, not about the individual sections.

 

ohmy.gif you know how long it took me to write that? You see how easy that was for you this paradigm is killing me! You are right I should try my best to make it shorter but on that note I am off to read your guide!

 

Damn right you are. :P

 

If you have the patience (since the part in question is very long, and kinda dull), one of the appendices has an overview of writing the Ice Lords, with my notes and such. It might be helpful.

 

It was pretty good background, mind (if a bit repetitive, since the same situations come up in 40K all the time). It just...wasn't necessary.

 

That's another reason outlines are great. Outlines are the important points of the IA in a nutshell. They are the pure essence of the material. Getting significantly more detailed than your outline is really a mistake in many ways, IMO.

 

I like outlines, if you weren't aware. ;)

 

EDIT: OH! Don't worry about reading the whole Octaguide.

 

I'd recommend "You never actually told us what an Index Astartes is", maybe Outlining, the Construction and Elaboration section, and maybe some of the Supplementary Resources. The rest of it's not strictly necessary at the moment.

[CKO]

Okay Octavulg you win I just read your outline section in your guide, and in Chapter 3.0 I will have an outline instead of unique traits. How much detail do you put into outlines?

[Octavulg]

This is actually rather embarrassing. I don't have an outline to show you.

 

The Ice Lords and Stone Hearts are too old - I no longer have a lot of the notes (and they were produced before I became as wise as I am now anyway). The Bronze Prophets were produced in a stream of consciousness for a Liber contest, then revised, so never had an outline (this method is Not Recommended). And the Steel Dogs are a secret for the moment, and so the outline was just turned into the IA directly, without me actually saving a separate copy.

 

I actually intend to produce a chapter the Octaguide Way and thoroughly document the process the entire time, if only so I can have a damn example. :P The problem is that I'm short on exciting ideas for loyalist chapters and time. I have one left, but this is really not the time to be working on it, and it's literally a concept and a few ideas, so I'm in no position to show it to you.

 

I'll dig around on my older computers tomorrow and see what I can turn up for you. I know the Steel Dogs had one, and I'm pretty sure the Stone Hearts did, but the question is whether I can find them. Worse comes to worse, I'll make my fifth chapter.

[CKO]

Alright I made a decent outline perhaps you can help me critic it!

 

Name: Angels of Despair or Mutilators

 

Origins: The chapter is created to regain control of the Lacior system. The war is a stalemate when the Chapter Master decides to use terror/fear tactics. Because of their success using terror the chapter decides to use the Codex Astartes to learn how to master fear/terror tactics. They become so engrave with fear/terror tactics that it became apart of their beliefs.

 

Home world: Their home world is Esavior a feral world without a human population. Their recruits have to successfully execute a terrorist plot before being brought to Esavior.

 

Combat Doctrine: The scouts arrive to the planet weeks ahead of the main force to terrorize the population. When the main force arrives an announcement is made when and where they will attack. The chapter attacks (usually at dawn so that the reflection of their golden armor can be seen miles away and everyone knows that the mutilators are here) with an armored force using rhinos and razorbacks to get the marines within close quarters combat range.

 

Organization: This part is tricky as they use the Codex for its military knowledge but they ignore the actual organization part, so I need help here.

 

Beliefs: They view the Emperor the way most chapters do not as a god but the pinnacle of men. They also believe that inspiring fear and terror is the best military tactic.

 

Gene-seed: Rogal Dorn

 

Battle Cry: “Fear Us”

[Octavulg]

Name: Angels of Despair or Mutilators

 

I'd lean toward the second over the first, I think. Mutilation Angels would be another option.

 

Origins: The chapter is created to regain control of the Lacior system. The war is a stalemate when the Chapter Master decides to use terror/fear tactics. Because of their success using terror the chapter decides to use the Codex Astartes to learn how to master fear/terror tactics. They become so engrave with fear/terror tactics that it became apart of their beliefs.

 

This seems fairly workable. I'd recommend expanding the scale of the war - a company or two of Space Marines can take a planet in hours, if they get a little lucky. Perhaps several planets?

 

Home world: Their home world is Esavior a feral world without a human population. Their recruits have to successfully execute a terrorist plot before being brought to Esavior.

 

If it lacks a human population, it's not a feral world (feral world is an Imperial classification).

 

While I like the idea of the recruitment, how the hell do a bunch of twelve year olds pull off a terrorist plot? How does the chapter make sure appropriate targets are selected? A few more details would be good here - it doesn't have to go beyond point form, but outline the process for us.

 

Combat Doctrine: The scouts arrive to the planet weeks ahead of the main force to terrorize the population. When the main force arrives an announcement is made when and where they will attack. The chapter attacks (usually at dawn so that the reflection of their golden armor can be seen miles away and everyone knows that the mutilators are here) with an armored force using rhinos and razorbacks to get the marines within close quarters combat range.

 

That's...not that terrifying. I mean, it's kinda scary, but I was expecting something more Night Lords.

 

Terror tactics involve screwing with people's heads so badly that they make a mistake and fight badly when you attack them. Telling them where you'll be doesn't seem to encompass that.

 

Organization: This part is tricky as they use the Codex for its military knowledge but they ignore the actual organization part, so I need help here.

 

Why do they ignore the organization/how do they ignore the organization?

 

This is a pretty solid outline - I think you need to start working a few more ideas into each section. Maybe two or three examples of terror tactics for Combat Doctrine, a few details about Esavior or the areas the chapter typically recruits from, the principles behind the alternate organization. I'd bet you have ideas for different sections already - put some of those in. Don't write the section, but add the idea, if that makes any sense.

[Ace Debonair]

Alright I made a decent outline perhaps you can help me critic it!

 

Name: Angels of Despair or Mutilators

 

I like Angels of Despair. Very nice.

 

Origins: The chapter is created to regain control of the Lacior system. The war is a stalemate when the Chapter Master decides to use terror/fear tactics. Because of their success using terror the chapter decides to use the Codex Astartes to learn how to master fear/terror tactics. They become so engrave with fear/terror tactics that it became apart of their beliefs.

 

Seems fair. It might be better to make it the Lacior sector rather than system, as sectors are bigger areas, increasing the likelihood of stalemate on the grounds your forces are being spread too thinly. ;)

 

Home world: Their home world is Esavior a feral world without a human population. Their recruits have to successfully execute a terrorist plot before being brought to Esavior.

 

I have no idea what you have planned for your recruitment trials, but I think it might be worth finding another way of wording it. That particular phrase carries some rather negative connotations.

 

Training recruits on a feral world is an awesome idea, though, especially if it's filled with big, scary beasties. I'm already getting quote ideas;

 

"Before you learn to wield fear as a weapon, first you must confront it! You must master it!"

 

Also, if there's big beasties about, your chaps can decorate themselves with the bones of said nasty critters, just to remind everyone that can see them that they've already killed much bigger, nastier things than a few rebels.

 

Combat Doctrine: The scouts arrive to the planet weeks ahead of the main force to terrorize the population. When the main force arrives an announcement is made when and where they will attack. The chapter attacks (usually at dawn so that the reflection of their golden armor can be seen miles away and everyone knows that the mutilators are here) with an armored force using rhinos and razorbacks to get the marines within close quarters combat range.

 

Sending small squads to sow destruction and anarchy amongst rebellious cities/hives/worlds before the main body of the force comes along is a great idea, but announcing when your main force is going to show up doesn't really work as a terror tactic, unless it's written on the city walls in the blood of dead rebels/heretics. (hint hint! :P )

 

Night attacks by small squads that only kill one or two enemies (in gruesome fashion - much blood 'n' guts) before the attackers fade away into the night, leaving the surviving enemies to search in vain for the Astartes and wonder who will die next - now that's fear tactics. Heck, that might even work on xenos - at the very least it'll make them annoyed, and angry fighters are sloppy fighters, so your marines can get an advantage that way.

 

Organization: This part is tricky as they use the Codex for its military knowledge but they ignore the actual organization part, so I need help here.

 

Well, what sort of organisation did you envision?

 

Beliefs: They view the Emperor the way most chapters do not as a god but the pinnacle of men. They also believe that inspiring fear and terror is the best military tactic.

 

The highlighted bit is ideal content for Combat Doctrine, rather than beliefs. I know that sounds odd, but trust me on this. ;)

 

Some questions that might help expand your beliefs section:

 

Do the Chapter's unorthodox tactics draw unwanted attention from the Inquisition?

What are the Chapter's views on psykers?

How do they view the average human?

How do they view other Chapters?

 

Gene-seed: Rogal Dorn

 

Fine choice. For the sons of Rogal Dorn, duty comes first, so your chaps can decide that the ends (victory) justify the means. (terror tactics)

 

Battle Cry: “Fear Us”

Short, snappy, and to the point. What's not to like? :P

[CKO]

My outline was done after reading the guide, which took quite a while so my brain power was limited. I also didnt explain everything completely I just gave enough so you will know what type of information is going to be in each section. I will be presenting my ideas the way I stated its just that I am adding an outline because I was convinced it would make life easier for the readers.

[Octavulg]

Well, the hope is it'll also make it easier for you. :jaw:

[NightrawenII]

*walks in and fools around*

 

Well, Ace has good outlline in his Stonebound thread.

[Ace Debonair]

Well, the hope is it'll also make it easier for you. :)

I approve of outlining. In my experience it makes the whole process much easier.

 

It's worked to make my Rift Lords and Infinity Knights what they are today, and I'm pretty much happy with them even though there's more work that can be done on them. ^_^

 

*walks in and fools around*

 

Well, Ace has good outlline in his Stonebound thread.

 

The problem being that I never really followed up on it with a good chapter.

Take that, me. :lol: