Worthy Adversaries

[wolf363839]

This isn't meant to boast or brag. I wanted to say that first off so we can objectively discuss the Wolves.

 

My record with the latest Codex SW is 39 - 5 - 14. And barring more than a few games with horrendous dice rolls, those ties would be even more W's. The vast majority of my opponents are seasoned 40K vets using their best armies, thought they have typically been different builds each time.

 

We have had our claws on the latest 'dex for a few years now, and there doesn't seem to be a drop off in our strength like we've seen with BA and DE, for example. After only a very few games against DE, I am able to consistently crush them. Even at the beginning of their new release, I was winning at least half of the games agains them. I won each of my three games against BA using their new 'dex, but everything I've read leads me to believe they are above average in strength, but well below the Wolves.

 

Bottom line, there are two possible answers that I can see:

 

1) The Wolves are overpowered.

 

2) I consistently use the same army build, which I slowly tweak as games are played.

 

I'm leaning towards a mix of both answers, maybe 70/30 in favor of my consistent army build. I've used the same mech Wolf army over the years, with small unit changes as I've gone along and learned the strengths and weaknesses of my army to a T.

 

What have your experiences or win/loss records shown? Does the Fang agree?

 

 

 

Here's my list in case you were curious:

 

Thunderlord leading 2 TWC

 

Wolf Priest, WG, and GH's in Land Raider

 

Rune Priest, WG, and GH's in Rhino

 

WG and GH's in Rhino

 

WG and GH's in Razorback (TwinL Las)

 

Long Fangs w/ 4 Missiles in Razorback (TwinL Las)

 

Typhoon Speeder

[Beef]

Never played a game in 5th with my wolves. (or any other army) Just dont have time. But I will be playing this weekend at a 2 day tournie. I will let you know the results. Most probably it will be 1W 5L. 5 losses first unless i am so far down the bottom tables that i might eventually win a game against somebody who is an even worse player than me. With only 2 troop choices of 2x5 WG in TDA and Logan Grimnar i dont hold out much chances at seizing objectives. i just plan on rushing in and haveing a glorious few rounds of CC before i am wiped out.

 

All i pray for it that i get into CC and kick some butt. Not bothered if I win or lose just as long as I reap a decent tally of slain enemy

[hendrik]

just like beef i'm not that much of a competitive player. add to this that my main opponent is a BA army and we only have a 42" broad,36" deep table and you'll see why for every victory gained i've lost atleast 5 battles.

[thor1234]

I am yet to play my wolves in a competitive enviroment, but they are undefeated in friendly games, my opponents just can't seem to get to grips with the wolf playstyle, my Eldar friends fields alot of mech wave serpants and falcons, which long fangs eat for brekfast due being able to split their fire, when he plays other people they just dont have the shots needed to put down the vehicles..... infantry units are easy picking for full strength grey hunter packs, at 12" nothing does better with 16 bolter shots + usually 4-6 plasma shots nothing survives we've had our dex for a while and know which units to put in a list........ I would therefore agree that our success is down to both factors, indeed we do have a powerful codex with lots of good options and we know our lists so well, only adjusting to give better output.........

[dswanick]

I am a Space Wolf by Rite of Inheritence but have played Marines since 2nd Ed. The most recent codex is, in my experience, a good, flexible, strong codex - but it is not overpowered. I play in a LGS with a good mix of competative and casual players and a few other Wolves players. I have competative and casual all-comers lists, I try and avoid list tailoring. All players are well versed in playing SW, with and against, and my win record is unspectacular when I use the appropriate list against the appropriate player. No one complains that the dex is OP. Maybe your group just needs more exposure to the potential so they can sort out effective counter units and strategies?

[wolf363839]

I like your comments about using the all-comers list and anti-list tayloring. I personally want to build an army that I can field against anyone and win. I don't play tourney's, just friendly games, but winning is still more fun than losing. And as a result I've really learned the in's and out's of the army.

 

I started out with a list that I thought looked cool and was fun to play, before tweaking the list to be dominant on the table. I think that philosophy is what my group lacks. They are looking for a magic bullet list rather than developing one over time.

[Brother Nihm]

I agree, tailoring lists aren't much fun. Particularly in tournaments with varied opponents.

 

Though the problem with many older codices is that the only viable lists are magic bullet lists, because the older books have a hard time keeping up with Codex Creep and most of them are highly inflexible when it comes to efficient vs broken units.

[Nrthstar]

You must play with some truly awful BA players or you're just doing a great job yourself, our local meta was dominated by two gents playing BA. Their FNP and Furious Charge can eat other marines (except Grey Knights who really just came out and made BA's look pitiful. "Oh Furious Charge? That's neat my weapons give me a constant higher initiative. Oh FNP, doesn't matter, we only carry power weapons.")

 

Now not to sound like I'm utterly belittling your record, but in my area BA vs SW has been a 50/50 split for Wins/Losses. Even my local Razorspam/Missile Spam SW tourney player has about a 60% success rate based on the BA's player list/experience.

 

And DE? We have more DE players here now more than anything else since they have such an awesomely balanced codex with so many fun goodies and unique builds possible. I look forward to playing them since I get something new every time and my record is slightly above average.

 

Is the SW codex more powerful than the other new releases (BA/DE/GK). No, not a shot. I'd say we're on par with them though. Maybe our counterattack rule isn't as nifty as FNP/FC bubs and mass power weapons, but we still do have low costs (except on well equipped termies) and it's pretty easy for us to build a solid all comers list.

 

This rant was brought on by a local player (who formerly played space wolves, then BA, now GK) who still thinks our cheap cost makes us far too overpowered. If that were true he wouldn't hop ship with every new codex.

 

Granted, every time I read a new book or codex I want to skip around a bit just for the cool fluffiness. I'm considering a nids army just for the monstrous feel of it. Halloween does that to me.

[lionofjudah]

As a 2-4 time a year 40k player but avid modeler the space wolves are amazing in all details...great fluff (I've been into 40k since RT but played vanilla marines til I heard we were getting a 5th ed dex and sold everything to get ready:).. the games I have played have been in the w category as the dex is a blend of solid hq's, some of the best troops in the game and are when run in the right hands and with the blessings of the emperor of the dice a game is solid. My sons orks have felt my wrath, my buddies ork wagon blitz list is HARD but can be managed, eldar swoop about and fear our CC, nids wither in the face of massed fire and split ML/LC pinging, the necrons get back up and fight more, ...I haven't played against DE or tau but feel they r manageable as well...

I run the same list and can field up to 3500 pts of wolfy mayhem in apoc games

 

I field a RP, WG in TDA with tlc, and 13 blood claws (flamer) in a LRC, 2 8 man grey hunter squads with a RP n WG with combimelta/plas n PF/PW n rhinos with dozer(1plas sqd 1 melta), 12 wolves, 2 speeders (1tornado/1mm/hb) and 2 LF packs (1 5 hb/ 1 3 las/2 ml) each with a WG and the 2nd is in TDA with cyclone, and a vindi at 1850... has enough dakka for hordes, close enough AT fir a guard mech assault, enough CC for a 8 meganob unit to die handily and is hearty enough to take a round of unkind dice and not be too bad off...

[red_starrise]

Frankly, I find that every army list/dex is highly subject to the general playing it. Now maybe I have a unique perspective on it since I play both armies a good amount, but I've played Wolves w/ my IF mech army & it was a very very close loss for me the last time. I only lost by one objective & that was due to my tac squads falling thru the ice & failing diff terrain tests then falling back, then failing more which cost me two full combat squads.

[Scyld Fireblade]

I use a perhaps unorthodox list, because my SWs make absolutely no use of vehicles.

 

HQ: WL with TWM, FB, SS, RA, wolftooth and wolftail talismans, and Warrior Born

WL with TDA, TH, SS,Wolftooth talisman, and Bear

RP with RA, Living Lightning, Jaws, and Beast Slayer

Elite: 4 WG and Arjac with TDA, 2 claws, Assault Cannon, PF, 2 CF

5 scouts with meltagun, 2 PW, and meltabombs

Troops: 9 BC

9 BC

10 GH with flamer, plasmagun, PF, plasma pistol

10 GH with flamer, plasmagun, PF, plasma pistol

Fast: 2 TWC with SS and TH

Heavy: 5 LF with 2 LC, 2 HB

 

My record with this list is 54-0-3, with the three ties against daemons and one of several games against a skilled BA player. Most of the time I crush him though.

 

The only army I have never fought is sisters.