khurdur Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Just wanted to ask... does tank shocking work on fearless units and monstrous creatures? it seems a bit odd a rhino can tank shock a trygon into falling back, though you could argue a 20-30 ton tank moving at full speed would put a quite dent even on a trygon if it sits there..... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240157-tank-shocking/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Doesn't work on fearless, does work on monstrous creatures Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240157-tank-shocking/#findComment-2898312 Share on other sites More sharing options...
khurdur Posted October 12, 2011 Author Share Posted October 12, 2011 but most MCs are fearless, so it won't work on them.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240157-tank-shocking/#findComment-2898322 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 You have to define the term "work" here. Can you tank shock those units? Absolutely. Your tank will move forward and perform the Tank Shock action. The Fearless unit simply auto-passes its Morale test. You can still shove a 30-man Ork Boyz mob out of the way with a Rhino, or nudge a Carnifex out of the way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240157-tank-shocking/#findComment-2898430 Share on other sites More sharing options...
khurdur Posted October 12, 2011 Author Share Posted October 12, 2011 don't the rules say if it passes its morale test the tank just passes over them as if they are not there...I don't move any models that way ! or am I getting something wrong? As an aside...can I disembark troops and then also tank-shock? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240157-tank-shocking/#findComment-2898463 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 don't the rules say if it passes its morale test the tank just passes over them as if they are not there...I don't move any models that way ! or am I getting something wrong? As an aside...can I disembark troops and then also tank-shock? I don't mean to be rude but do you actually own a copy of the rulebook? Because every question you have asked is covered by the relevant section of the rules and there don't appear to be any grey areas or complications that would require discussion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240157-tank-shocking/#findComment-2898476 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Yes... :yes: That aside, if the vehicle ends its move on any models, they must move the shortest distance to 1" away from the vehicle. (p.68) As for if any guys inside can disembark, they can only do so if the vehicle moved 12" or less. (p.70) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240157-tank-shocking/#findComment-2898523 Share on other sites More sharing options...
khurdur Posted October 12, 2011 Author Share Posted October 12, 2011 I've got the book. I just am a bit new and don't quite get how the rules translate to the models and battlefield. And I've had another look...it says in the last paragraph that you can move models that are in the way of the final position of the tank. So, for the 8" or so of normal movement, they take a leadership test, and if fail they fallback. And, for the last few inches where the tank will land, I move enemy models out of the way so they are one inch away. Something like that? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240157-tank-shocking/#findComment-2898585 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Yep, just like that. One little finesse tip: don't end your move in base to hull contact with an enemy model. Since it doesn't have to move out of the way (it's not underneath the vehicle) it can stay in BTB contact and get free attacks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240157-tank-shocking/#findComment-2898695 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Valerius Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 You also have to yell "TANK SHOOOOOCK!" as you initiate the move. Bonus points if you yell so loud people threaten to ban you from the gaming establishment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240157-tank-shocking/#findComment-2898715 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Er, Seahawk, only the models that would be underneath the tank have to move 1" away? The rest of the squad can stay put if they'd be in base contact? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240157-tank-shocking/#findComment-2898720 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Er, Seahawk, only the models that would be underneath the tank have to move 1" away? The rest of the squad can stay put if they'd be in base contact?Yes, that's what I'm saying as that's exactly what the rules say. "If some enemy models...end up underneath the vehicle..." BTB =/= Underneath ^_^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240157-tank-shocking/#findComment-2898786 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Seahawk's right. Only models that would end up "underneath" the vehicle need to be moved (but must stay in coherency with their unit) and moving at least 1" of the tank shocking vehicle. It's all on page 68 of the BRB. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240157-tank-shocking/#findComment-2898895 Share on other sites More sharing options...
khurdur Posted October 13, 2011 Author Share Posted October 13, 2011 Almost got it, another question....I tank shock, and a trygon ends up under the final landing position of the tank, do I move it and not my opponent, and to either side so it ends up 1" away from the rhino? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240157-tank-shocking/#findComment-2899096 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I thought every model in the unit had to end up more then an inch away, due to not being able to be within an inch of enemy units unless assaulting.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240157-tank-shocking/#findComment-2899144 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 @khurdur and nurglez - Nope. Your opponent moves their models out of the way and using the shortest distance, and again, only models underneath the vehicle have to move. Tank shocking obviously breaks the normal 1" rule, otherwise how would one ever tank shock... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240157-tank-shocking/#findComment-2899265 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Well, Seahawk, nurglez is (I think) partially right. After the Tank Shock! takes place, the models have to end up 1" away as they didn't launch an assault and vehicles (at least, most vehicles) can't launch assaults. They move the shortest distance possible to end up in a still-legal configuration (i.e. in coherency and 1" away from the tank). This may result in them moving quite a bit depending on the positioning of other units and terrain nearby. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240157-tank-shocking/#findComment-2899308 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I'm with thade on this, that's how my friends and I have always played it. I don't see the tank shock RAW as overwriting or ignoring the always-in-effect nature of the 1" rule. If it basically states that 'outside of the assualt phase, opposing models must remain 1" apart from one another', and tank shocking is in the movement phase, doesn't the 1" rule still apply? I feel that the tank shocking rules are in addition to this rule rather than replacing it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240157-tank-shocking/#findComment-2899341 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 A model cannot move so that it touches an enemy model during the Movement phase. To keep this distinction clear, a model may not move within 1" of an enemy model unless assaulting. When moving a tank [during the Movement phase], the player can declare that the vehicle is going to attempt to make a tank shock attack instead of moving normally. This is an exception to the rule that enemy models cannot be moved through. Once the vehicle has been 'aimed' and the speed declared, move the vehicle straight forward until it comes into contact with an enemy unit... If some enemy models in the enemy unit would end up underneath the vehicle when it reaches its final position, these models must be moved out of the way by the shortest distance, leaving at least 1" between them and the vehicle and maintaining unit coherency. As shown, the Tank Shock rules clearly override the normal rules for movement, allowing the vehicle to come into [base] contact with an enemy model. In the follow-up, there is no statement whatsoever that forces models that are in base contact to move away. Indeed, there is nowhere else in the book, other than the first quote I provided, that even mentions a "1 inch rule;" the closest is in the Assault Phase section, where it says "with the exception that they may be moved within 1" of enemy models." In both cases, it does not force models away from an enemy vehicle (the vehicle assault rules give him permission to attack it!). Basically, the mythical "1 inch rule" is just that, a myth. If you consider the Death or Glory! rules, it manages to say "...the vehicle grinds to a halt directly in front of the heroic individual." Since there is no qualifier, how would we define "directly in front of?" 1"? 4"? I take that to mean base contact...and then during the assault phase, he can attack the vehicle according to those rules. Lastly, at the start of the Vehicles section is says this: "Because vehicles do not fight in the same manner as creatures of flesh and blood, their rules differ from other models in a number of ways, detailed here." Thus, vehicles use different rules than normal units, where indicated. That's my side of the story, backed up by the rules. If I missed something though, please let me know. :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240157-tank-shocking/#findComment-2899358 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Right, I wasn't arguing that the tank shock movement cannot come within 1" of an enemy model- I apologize that it was unclear. But... wait. You first quote the 1" rule, and then call it a myth? :lol: To keep this distinction clear, a model may not move within 1" of an enemy model unless assaulting. ^ That is not a myth ;) My contention is only that after the tank shock is resolved, any models that are within 1" of the vehicle's final position must also be moved in the same manner as models that would be underneath the tank. I'm not going to press this, as there's obviously little to no RAW to support it and this is the OR, but the way I see RAI its pretty clear. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240157-tank-shocking/#findComment-2899366 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 The "1 inch rule" that is the basis for the debate is what I call a myth. :lol: It doesn't exist in the sense that "all models must always be 1" away all the time unless in close combat." A rule like that simply does not exist in the current rule set. The only rule there is involves the Movement phase, and that's it. Gargantuan critters and super-heavies have a rule that is similar, but it does not apply to regular vehicles. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240157-tank-shocking/#findComment-2899372 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 You're right, its not universal, but the intent is to prevent confusion about what is in base contact with what. A 1" separation is a very clear barrier to ensure there's no question :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240157-tank-shocking/#findComment-2899378 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 If the infantry models do end up in BtB with the vehicle when the move aside, this opens up the possibility of them stuffing krak grenades into that tank come the tank owner's assault phase. It adds an additional dimension of risk to Tank Shock! Seahawk makes an interesting point regarding the wording of Death or Glory. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240157-tank-shocking/#findComment-2899416 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 The Death or Glory exception makes a lot of logical sense. That model just slagged that tank with a meltagun or a grenade or a powerfist (or something), so it deserves to be in BtB contact. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240157-tank-shocking/#findComment-2899475 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Tank Shock fail + immobilization = BTB contact. And ugliness. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240157-tank-shocking/#findComment-2899496 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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