Heavy Bolter Devastators

[Tinnock]

Soooo I have 4 heavy bolter marines that just don't get used and I want opinions on fielding them as a devastator squad.

 

gimme the good, the bad, and the ugly

[Hellios]

Soooo I have 4 heavy bolter marines that just don't get used and I want opinions on fielding them as a devastator squad.

 

gimme the good, the bad, and the ugly

 

Good... Cheap...

 

Bad... errmmm Do you need heavy bolters...

 

Ugly... :) I don't know!

 

Ok basically do you find yourself needing to kill lot of infantry? Because that's about the only reason... Bolters normally do it... and the rest deals with the tough stuff... so unless you are being swarmed or are having problems with T5 4+ save guys... I don't see much point in heavy bolters... Maybe you could convert them into something else?

[MagicMan]

They just seem expensive for what they are, if you're using C:SM.

 

You can get two Predators for not much more points and get 4 Autocannon shots alongside the 12 Heavy Bolters.

 

Downside is that they take up two force organisation slots, though.

[ak-73]

ML are considered superior to the HB. It's a fluffy pick, especially for Crimson Fists players like myself. They are not high on the target priority list of many armies due to AP4 but they are actually useful even against Marines, if you place them in cover you can even win a shoot out against 4xML Devastators due to volume of S5 attacks. You lose Anti-Tank and gain Anti-Infantry, especially against those with Save 4+ or worse. If you field them, make sure you have enough Anti-Tank in your army.

 

I used them in my last tourney for my semi-fluffy list and they weren't stellar, neither bad - they were okay. I intend to use them again. <_<

 

Alex

[Ming]

Running a 3 HB squad is 135 points? 150 for 4 HBs. Not a bad investment for anti-infantry. Same point cost as 4 MLs. Always a great alternative to a dakka predator. Only issue is being able to deploy in cover, and opportunity lost when you might have to march them on in a DOW scenario. I have alot of lists where I have 1 pred and 2 small dev squads rather than 3 preds.

 

Favorite small dev squad is 2 ML and 1 PC, 5 marines. Perfect for wrecking dismounted MSU marines or other units, and not shabby on wrecking light armor either.

 

4 HB devs are great vs orks, horde IG, nids, and anything green.

[thade]

They are a good time against a Green Tide or IG foot-slogging force. <3 Maybe DE with their weak transports and frail bodies? They're a bit niche. I take them in my tac squads in the rare times I take tac squads of ten. As for Devs, I use Devs as anti-armor support...so MLs or - sometimes - Lascannons.

[ak-73]

They are good against all GEQ, including all kinds of Eldar. Those tend to be skimmer mounted but once you catch them out in the open for any reason, you can toast them for good. Oh and don't forget that Devs unlock a Rhino or Razorback for you even though they won't use it.

 

Alex

[MagicMan]

I just think that for the same price, missiles are better than HB's.

 

 

You can get a decent amount of hits with frags on hordes, but still have the ability to use Kraks to instant kill T4 two wound models (Tyranid Warriors, Nobs, Attack bikes etc) kill MEQ by bypassing their 3+ save, and threaten tanks. Plus 12" of range over the HB.

 

 

If HB were cheaper, then i'd take them. But id rather have the versatility of missiles. You lose a little anti-Inf, but gain a lot more.

[Brother_Fatiswon]

it's really more of a question of how else is your force set up. If you are going to have all your anti Infantry in your heavy support you'll need to find balance in the rest of your units for dealing with armor/2+/3++

personally i think Lysander was MADE for taking with a 10 man squad w/x4 Heavy bolters (make sure you model those bolt pistols thou!)

[Validar]

it's really more of a question of how else is your force set up. If you are going to have all your anti Infantry in your heavy support you'll need to find balance in the rest of your units for dealing with armor/2+/3++

personally i think Lysander was MADE for taking with a 10 man squad w/x4 Heavy bolters (make sure you model those bolt pistols thou!)

 

lolz @a 200 point melee monster standing back with an overpriced unit with one of the worst weapons a marine can have :no: Almost tempted to try it

 

I love heavy bolters, seriously, I have plans to do the 3-4 heavy bolter team and I'm even working on rules for my own character upgrade for them. The only problem with the heavy bolter is that it isn't very good - you want your long range firepower to deal with armor - even against a horde army you should count more on your normal bolters (which you have all over the army) than the 4 heavy bolters to make a difference.

 

I guess it depends on your meta wether you'd take ML, MM or HB on your tactical squads - but with a reference to earlier statement, I really think a ML would be preferable to shoot at those monsters/kans/etc. that you can't take out in close quaters because fail means death for those who try or those transports you want to take out early. A HB can take out 3 infantry models a round (hitting with 2 shots and wound isn't even a guarentee - and they've got coversaves to boot) which won't really matter against 30 angry boyz...

 

Though I love the HB, I wouldn't pick it if I ever played win-at-all-cost

[ak-73]

I thought Lysander was for drop podding him with Sternguards and even that isn't that great. But he can at least absorb incoming AP1/2 or power weapons.

 

Alex

[Brother Nihm]

They are stationary.

[Zincite]

You can get a decent amount of hits with frags on hordes, but still have the ability to use Kraks to instant kill T4 two wound models (Tyranid Warriors, Nobs, Attack bikes etc) kill MEQ by bypassing their 3+ save, and threaten tanks. Plus 12" of range over the HB.

The Tyranid in me is insulted that you listed Warriors as having only two wounds. Not that it really makes any difference.

[MagicMan]

The Tyranid in me is insulted that you listed Warriors as having only two wounds. Not that it really makes any difference.

 

 

Ah they have three now? I honestly hate the new codex, my Tyranids sit languishing in a box somewhere waiting for a new dex.

[ShinyRhino]

it's really more of a question of how else is your force set up. If you are going to have all your anti Infantry in your heavy support you'll need to find balance in the rest of your units for dealing with armor/2+/3++

personally i think Lysander was MADE for taking with a 10 man squad w/x4 Heavy bolters (make sure you model those bolt pistols thou!)

 

lolz @a 200 point melee monster standing back with an overpriced unit with one of the worst weapons a marine can have :P Almost tempted to try it

 

I love heavy bolters, seriously, I have plans to do the 3-4 heavy bolter team and I'm even working on rules for my own character upgrade for them. The only problem with the heavy bolter is that it isn't very good - you want your long range firepower to deal with armor - even against a horde army you should count more on your normal bolters (which you have all over the army) than the 4 heavy bolters to make a difference.

 

I guess it depends on your meta wether you'd take ML, MM or HB on your tactical squads - but with a reference to earlier statement, I really think a ML would be preferable to shoot at those monsters/kans/etc. that you can't take out in close quaters because fail means death for those who try or those transports you want to take out early. A HB can take out 3 infantry models a round (hitting with 2 shots and wound isn't even a guarentee - and they've got coversaves to boot) which won't really matter against 30 angry boyz...

 

Though I love the HB, I wouldn't pick it if I ever played win-at-all-cost

 

I've actually written up a "Lysander List" that makes him flexible. It contains the stock assortment of Tactical Squads, a Sternguard Squad, a 10-man Tac Termies squad, and an all-Heavy Bolter Dev squad, at minimum. Lysander can join the TDA if it's desirable (teleporting in, forming a rock-hard gunline, etc), or join the Dev Squad. Bolter Drill helps every unit in the core army.

 

The tricky part of Heavy Bolters is getting them to hit well, and wound well. Bolters only will NOT stop an Ork Horde force. A dozen Bolter Drilled heavy bolters will go a long way toward carving up those Mobs, though.

The selection does indeed rely on your local metagame. Around here, we see a LOT of gribbly armies (Orks, Daemons, Nids). Missile launchers do squat against Boyz mobs, because the players use the utmost maximum coherency spread (and eat up half the game measuring 2" for every model, or fudging it and having >2" gaps, but that's a gripe for a different day) so you hit one Ork with a blast template. Heavy Bolters not only avoid that obstacle, but also wound reliably when compared to the S4 blasts.

[Laughingdagger]

I like two dakka preds instead, 130pts, 12 hb shots, 4 autocannon

[Mysticaria]

I like two dakka preds instead, 130pts, 12 hb shots, 4 autocannon

I like those too... but that's closer to 170 than 130. :)

 

-Myst

[Tinnock]

as of right now, I don't own any predators so they are out. predators and land speeders will be my next purchases because I am very infantry heavy without a whole lot of vehicles. If I were to field all my vehicles it comes out to 3 AOBR dreadnoughts(working on making rifleman arms for them) 2 rhinos, 1 razorback, and a landraider crusader/redeemer. so just trying to figure out ways to use what I got. statistically I really like both dakka preds, and combi-destructors I just dont own any

[Paulochromis]

don't come across HB marines very often, but they are by far the coolest heavy weapon models, so in my deathwatch/LoTD army i use the HB models for my sternguard.

[OptiMAT]

I will have a squad of three HB, and one Bolter as a squad designed to draw fire and give some back stationary for my troops.

 

... But the more I think about it - and this thread has helped - Missile Launchers seem like the better option. Not only because I already have a few heavy bolters elsewhere in a tactical squad and scout squad. The launchers have the 2 round types, making them just as effective at horde armies and light anti-tank units. I was setting up for a mid-range anti infantry D-squad and an anti-tank D-squad with a Lascannon and Multimelta.

 

We'll see. Maybe 2 ML and one HB in that squad.

[ak-73]

as of right now, I don't own any predators so they are out. predators and land speeders will be my next purchases because I am very infantry heavy without a whole lot of vehicles. If I were to field all my vehicles it comes out to 3 AOBR dreadnoughts(working on making rifleman arms for them) 2 rhinos, 1 razorback, and a landraider crusader/redeemer. so just trying to figure out ways to use what I got. statistically I really like both dakka preds, and combi-destructors I just dont own any

 

If you like infantry (as I do), hope for 6E (but don't pin your hopes too high). This is the vehicle edition, if you want to win games you need transports and mobile firepower. Aka Preds, Dreads, Typhoons, Razorbacks, Rhinos. They are cheap, you can field plenty of them and you'll make GW rich and yourself poorer.

 

That's how it goes.

 

Alex

[Tinnock]

what I own primarily comes down to finances, I like the predator model and fully intend to get 3(and magnetize them) once I have the money to spend, just like I plan to get 2 more razorbacks(at least) but once again it all comes down to money. I am infantry heavy because the core of my army is built around 3 black reach sets I split with my orky friend.

[ak-73]

what I own primarily comes down to finances, I like the predator model and fully intend to get 3(and magnetize them) once I have the money to spend, just like I plan to get 2 more razorbacks(at least) but once again it all comes down to money. I am infantry heavy because the core of my army is built around 3 black reach sets I split with my orky friend.

 

Yeah it's not a problem if you spend your games with friends and all. In fact if you'd go all mech, he'd find it much harder to beat you. Beware: Ork hordes can be difficult to beat at low point games. At higher points (1,500+) you'll generally have enough firepower to dissect pure infantry armies one-by-one, especially if you mechanize (Predators with Heavy Bolter sponsons are good and cheap).

 

Alex

[thewitchdokta]

I have ran a heavy bolter devastator squad with some decent sucess. I use 6-10 in a razorback or rhino depending on the squad size. While it can be expensive, the 36" ragce allows them to post up a firing lane and sit near the rear. They aren't really a target priority because people underestimate them but the signum makes this squad very effective. I usually run up to a good spot on the 1st turn, deploy and pop smoke on the transport. Next turn the transport moves on and the heavy bolters let rrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiippppppppppppppppp!

 

9 shots @ BS 4, 3 at 5 = ~9 hits

vs A10 1-2 glance and ~1 penetrate, which is good for taking down filthy little skimmers

vs AR11 1-2 glance which is usually good for a crew shaken but sometimes a little more

vs light infantry u can expect ~ 8 wounds and 4 deaths in cover or 8 deaths without cover

vs MEQ ~6 wounds and 2 deaths, which is not really impressive but it's better than nothing

vs High toughness (5-6) poor save monsters/creatures it's good for 2 wounds

 

Also consider that each turn there is a significant chance that a heavy weapon shot will shake or destory your predator, it's harder to take cover with a predator and it's very easy to sneak around the side of a predator.

 

A devastator squad can easily take cover, a devastator squad is just as hard from all angles and a devastator squad can take 5 casualties without loosing effectiveness, 6 casualtties without loosing a heavy weapon shot, and each death thereafter only reduces the effecrtivess by 25%. A devastator squad is also 9 space marines and one pissed off blood angels sgt with a powerfist who, when charged in HTH, really don't want to explain to the company captain why their firing lane went down. On top of that, we all know that devastators are the most likely units in the list to get affected by the red thirst, which has saved me one more than one occaision.

 

For those ppl who also have fun when playing warhammer, the variability of their performance is what makes them fun to play. More than once i've turned to my HB squad for a miracle, shaken a double handfull of dice and watched an inordinate number of my enemies fall.

 

People haven't been showing devastators love lately so i thought I would include my 2C.

[Meatman]

the signum makes this squad very effective. I usually run up to a good spot on the 1st turn, deploy and pop smoke on the transport. Next turn the transport moves on and the heavy bolters let rrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiippppppppppppppppp!

 

12 shots @ BS 5 = ~10 hits

 

 

You do realise that the signum only affects one member of the squad?