Heavy Bolter Devastators

[thewitchdokta]

i do now ^_^. many of the points still stand.

[IdOfEntity]

Aren't heavy bolters effective against footslogging Tau and Eldar? Tau Fire Warriors sport that 4+ armor, and only have T3. So you're looking at a decent range weapon that gets a 2+ to wound. Shooting against a shooty army might not be advisable, but...

 

I don't know that I'd take them in tournament lists, but certainly 1 off games. Do you ever fight foot sloggers?

[Arikel]

Many of the new necrons are now 4+, so it might be a good time to try em out. I often run a 5 man dev squad with two HB, they do well thinning out orcish hordes, and not so bad against meq as they do force wounds on units with the str 5.

[DarkGuard]

I've used a heavy bolter Dev squad before, 10 men, 4 heavy bolters, heavy bolter Razorback. Was a pretty good unit for anti-infantry, able to shred easily 4+ save units such as Necron Warriors, Tau Fire Warriors, most Eldar, and a large amount of Tyranid stuff. And even against MEQ they were good as they heaped a lot of wounds on top of them. With 10 guys in cover their durable and unlikely to be taken out quickly by firepower, and they won't stop shooting unless they're tied up in combat, which you should go to lengths to prevent happening, say by chucking a TL-LC Dread nearby. In fact, that wouldn't be a bad partner as HBs suck against vehicles in general, only able to deal with the really light stuff. Which is why I don't use them anymore, most people started using mech at my LGS, so I had to adapt, my HB Devs unable to do much damage against the mechanised tin cans. When 6th rolls around and hopefully brings mech back in line they may get a run out again, but points costs are, as usual, prohibitive though. Fantastic anti-infantry unit though.

[rusty1109]

At 2000 points I run two dev squads:

 

Anti-armour:

3 x ML

1 x LC

 

Anti-infantry:

2 x HB

2 x PC

 

These two squads work very well in unison.

[Hytanthas]

I think that a great anti-Drop-Pod-tactics-Drop-Pod army (A Drop Pod Army that expects his opponent to reserve his entire army [dang that's a lot of hyphens]) should have a squad of HB Devs. If they reserve everything bring out your devs first turn into cover and run them to a vantage point and get them ready to shoot his enemy. They just need to be somewhere in the middle-rear of the table so they don't get charged first turn but still have range to most of the table.

 

Or you could just charge them into combat. It worked for this guy in dawn of war right???...

 

Edit:

 

Forgot to mention: a HB Dev squad could be great when you split the 10 man unit in 2. Gives them great survivability and the ability to shoot two diferent targets (or you could have a lascannon squad with sergeant and a Heavy Bolter squad, for anti-infantry and anti-armor).

[DarkGuard]

Surely a quad plasma cannon unit, or even a quad missile launcher unit would be better. Chances are that unless they run they'll be reasonably clumped up, so the plasma cannons would slaughter them, while the missile launchers will also net guaranteed kills most the time and be able to threaten the Pods in KP games. I'm not having a go at heavy bolter Devs, I like them and know that they can damage MEQ by merit of a large amount of shots, but against MEQ I'd be inclined to go plasma cannons and leave heavy bolters for horde armies.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Surely a quad plasma cannon unit, or even a quad missile launcher unit would be better. Chances are that unless they run they'll be reasonably clumped up, so the plasma cannons would slaughter them, while the missile launchers will also net guaranteed kills most the time and be able to threaten the Pods in KP games. I'm not having a go at heavy bolter Devs, I like them and know that they can damage MEQ by merit of a large amount of shots, but against MEQ I'd be inclined to go plasma cannons and leave heavy bolters for horde armies.

 

 

I'd be nervous lumping that many plasma cannons into one unit, though. I run plasma-heavy in my army for serious, but my plasma cannons are in my Tac Squads for a measly 5 points, and my quad plasma command squad has FNP to mitigate the Gets Hot! rolls. Four p-cannon Dev squad, as the guy playing it, would make me nervous I'd lose some expensive models. Plus, considering the rather generous presence of 4+ cover saves in 5th Edition, that AP2 loses a little bit of its appeal.

 

Massed heavy bolters against Marines isn't necessarily a bad idea, though; it works on the premise of overwhelming your opponent's ability to make armor saves. Eldar players due with scatter lasers and Bladestorming Avengers; everyone does it against Terminator squads. Plus, its relatively cheap points wise and most SM players I know have heavy bolters left over from when they bought Dev kits for the plasma, missile launchers, and multi-meltas anyway. I'm tempted to try it, but I literally do not run Devestators anyway.

[minigun762]

Heavy bolters have improved in relation to the overall game because the last few army updates either support footslogging builds, use AV10 armor vehicles or have increased number of 4+ saves.

 

That said, they still suffer when compared to missile launchers, not only because of the lack of a high S shot but the -12" range on a static unit. And they suffer when compared to plasma cannons mostly because of their inability to negate FnP which has become fairly common in many builds.

 

Sadly what I think really kills them (for codex marines) is the variety of other, better options. Between whirlwinds, thunderfire and dakka Predators the mid S, anti infantry niche is saturated.

[MagicMan]

If they didn't cost 15 Points on a devastator, i might take them. If they were a free or a five point upgrade i'd put more in my army, but when you get a missile launcher for the same price, i'd rather have that.

[Brother-Captain Stacius]

Missle Launchers are more flexiable, but heavy bolters are pretty good at taking out light amour especially skimmers.

The sheer volume of shots, 12, gives you a good chance of hurting AV 10, and of annoying AV 11.

Combo that with open topped, and skimmer's moving flat out and they can be quite offensvie.

They are also slightly better at dealing with horde's, I think.

The rocket's are better against tank's, but i find a rocket unit has a huge target on it.

I normally go for a mix, 2 of each, then decide on Combat squading them.

[IdOfEntity]

Missle Launchers are more flexiable, but heavy bolters are pretty good at taking out light amour especially skimmers.

The sheer volume of shots, 12, gives you a good chance of hurting AV 10, and of annoying AV 11.

Combo that with open topped, and skimmer's moving flat out and they can be quite offensvie.

They are also slightly better at dealing with horde's, I think.

The rocket's are better against tank's, but i find a rocket unit has a huge target on it.

I normally go for a mix, 2 of each, then decide on Combat squading them.

 

Just looking over the numbers (yeah, I'm that guy) it looks like Missile Launchers are just as likely to land a Penetrating Hit on AV10. Four of them in a squad with BS 4 have a 133% chance of landing a penetrating hit.

 

And against Hordes rockets really excel I thought. Blast templates over weak armor enemies tends to get you a lot of splats. The troop that it would be least effective on I think is your 4+ armor save units. (Dire Avengers, Fire Warriors, Storm Troopers) and even then it's not a bad weapon. Not to mention the additional range has to count for something.

 

When it comes to heavier AV, well the Heavy Bolter just can't compete. And with as many vehicles as I see lately...

 

I think you're right about the psychological component of it. Missile Dev's are a high priority target in my mind, but that's because they're so effective at good range. Heavy Bolters aren't as high on my threatcon so they tend to survive longer. (and thus harry me longer)

 

Taking two of each and combat squadding them seems like a VERY sensible approach.

 

Edit: botched a number, and final commentary

[Badelaire]

I really like the idea of taking two of each and CS'ing them, with the Signum in the ML combat squad. This might be the solution I go with myself, as i will probably be tucking the more expensive weapons in Tac Squads.

[Bannus]

I'd be nervous lumping that many plasma cannons into one unit, though. I run plasma-heavy in my army for serious, but my plasma cannons are in my Tac Squads for a measly 5 points, and my quad plasma command squad has FNP to mitigate the Gets Hot! rolls. Four p-cannon Dev squad, as the guy playing it, would make me nervous I'd lose some expensive models. Plus, considering the rather generous presence of 4+ cover saves in 5th Edition, that AP2 loses a little bit of its appeal.

Four plasma cannons in a Dev Squad is spectacular! The casualties they can inflict are horrendous....for both sides. :)

[minigun762]

Plasma cannons seem like the perfect weapon for a tac squad.

They're cheap, they have decent range, they're flexible and 1 PC blast can do a lot of damage.

 

Unless you're hunting TH/SS terminators, 4 PCs is too much concentration of firepower from a single squad, though I guess you could combat squad the devastators to mitigate that.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Plasma cannons seem like the perfect weapon for a tac squad.

They're cheap, they have decent range, they're flexible and 1 PC blast can do a lot of damage.

 

Unless you're hunting TH/SS terminators, 4 PCs is too much concentration of firepower from a single squad, though I guess you could combat squad the devastators to mitigate that.

 

I wouldn't agree with that last part. Hammernators get 3+ saves against PC blasts so unless you've got Null Zone active, you're not likely to do a lot of damage. As coming from a single squad, then yeah, that's a decent point. Going into one, on the other hand, is a great way to get around FNP and non-SS Terminators; Blood Angels hate my plasma-heavy armies and I can only imagine the look of horror on a GK player's face when four plasma blasts land on his unit of Paladins and cut them in half. Especially with Null Zone (which, point of order, doesn't target the GK unit and thus is not affected by the Aegis).