Julgolax Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Though no fallen chapter would be complete without it's powerful librarians turned sorcerers, What about a fallen chapter master who decided to invoke the powers of chaos through communion. My inspiration for the idea came from the artwork from Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning with the Tzeentch warriors, marauders, and chosen. The black armor twisted into fanged beaks and chaos oddities really got me thinking about what a chaos LORD would be like since he's not a psyker. If a Lord of Chaos chooses Tzeentch to be his patron, does that mean he BECOMES psychic or do you not have to be psychic to invoke powers? "The Champions of the Changer of Ways are gifted with the arcane knowledge and sorcerous power of Tzeentch. With these, a Champion of Tzeentch weaves protective wards about himself, prophecies the future, and foretells the enemies intent. Champions of Tzeentch may be little more than pieces in the eternal, convoluted game that Tzeentch plays with all mortals, but those pieces that prove useful are well-protected so that they can be used again in the future." - from the C: CSM. To me that's interesting and conflicting because that sounds more like a sorcerer to me... I dunno. What do you guys think? Can anyone clairify if a Tzeentch Chaos Lord is actually always a Sorcerer and his warband just enthralled to him like the thousand sons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eerie Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 I think that piece from the codex is just over-generalizing it a bit. This is what happens when essential information needs to be squeezed into three sentences. No space for all the possible "ifs" and "buts". There is no real reason why a warband leader would need to be psychic to be a trustful servant. If Tzeentch wants something from him, he will know a thousand different ways to let him do what he wants. Or he could just lean back and with an amused smile and a fine pint of beer watch whatever that guy is plotting and planing in his name. It all serves him fine anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 In Soul Hunter, the Night Lords force commander has taken communion with Tzeentch. I haven't finished the book (and probably won't until I start it over again), but I don't believe he's a psyker... he is a terrible mutant, however. Non-psykers are certainly capable of taking the Mark of Tzeentch. Perhaps he's simply a gifted schemer/plotter/charismatic type, like Creed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethrion Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 In Soul Hunter, the Night Lords force commander has taken communion with Tzeentch. I haven't finished the book (and probably won't until I start it over again), but I don't believe he's a psyker... he is a terrible mutant, however. Non-psykers are certainly capable of taking the Mark of Tzeentch. Perhaps he's simply a gifted schemer/plotter/charismatic type, like Creed. Exactly, if Tzeentch sees promise in someone, psyker or not, he will definitely give them his patronage for as long as it serves his purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menkeroth Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 but I don't believe he's a psyker... he is a terrible mutant, however. And he is not. The Exalted is a Possessed with the daemon of the Architect of Fates, simply. Codex gives us an answer. Tzeentch servants don't have to be necessary psykers. If not they simply can't use all the advantages of the Mark of Tzeentch and that's all. So yes, answering to the topic-caster, Tzeentch warband can be led by a Chaos Lord of Him, why not? :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ambroz Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 In our current dex chaos lords are able to take MoT and gain no psychic powers so I think you get an answer from the dex itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkApostle Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 While yes, servants don't necessarily need to be psykers or sorcerers. And you can say what you want about the Codex army list but we still have to remember that alot of times the lists and not an accurate portrait of the fluff due to game balance and that list building could become incredibly complicated if it's supposed to be truly like the fluff. I choose to answer this with a quote from the Liber Chaotica, Tzeentch's Champions and Thrall Sorcerers section "Indeed, although it's true to say that all of Tzeentch's marked champions are sorcerers, it is not true to say that all sorcerers who seek the favour of Tzeentch or fight in His armies are also His champions. ... For those few aspirants who succeed in holding on to their sanity and form, and have the incredible strength of mind required to harness the whims of change, become arguably the most puissant of all the champions of the Chaos Gods. For these champions of Tzeentch are "blessed" with both the exceptional warrior skills of one who has had to fight tooth and nail for long decades to earn every single thing he has, while also possessing a gifted fragment of the sorcerous abilities of the Lord of Magic Himself. It takes little intelligence to realise therefor that this frightening combination must make the servants of Tzeentch among the most dangerous foes upon the field of battle." And a quote from the Warriors of Chaos Armybook, Disciplines of Tzeentch page "As well as lord of flux, Tzeentch is also master of the ever-mutating energy that is known to mortals as magic. Known as the Great Sorcerer, Tzeentch gifts whose who honour him with superior magical powers that they use to bend reality to their will. ... Those few who succeed upon the twisting path of Tzeentch become the most otherworldly of all Chaos Champions. They are blessed with both exceptional warrior skills and the arcane powers of the Lord of Magic. This deadly combination makes them cunning leaders and lethal warriors who command their armies with uncanny prescience." Also the current Codex contains virtually nil in actual explaining fluff about anything. And while I can already imagine people going 'but TDA, you can't use a fantasy battles armybook to give credit for something in 40k!' and to that all I shall say is, well, guess what, the Chaos Gods and indeed the same Chaos Gods no matter what you think. The Liber Chaotica makes this very clear and it contains information and stories from both the Fantasy Battles universe and the 40k universe. :P TDA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 You've also got the fact that a sorceror doesn't have to be psychic. The whole reason sorcery is so dangerous is because of its inherent difference from psychic ability, in that a sorceror has something else manipulate the warp-energy for them, rather than doing it themselves. As such, anyone who's not Blunt can become a sorceror, so long as they learn the correct rituals/formulae, or create the right sort of pacts with daemons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Lord Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 And a quote from the Warriors of Chaos Armybook, Disciplines of Tzeentch page "As well as lord of flux, Tzeentch is also master of the ever-mutating energy that is known to mortals as magic. Known as the Great Sorcerer, Tzeentch gifts whose who honour him with superior magical powers that they use to bend reality to their will. ... Those few who succeed upon the twisting path of Tzeentch become the most otherworldly of all Chaos Champions. They are blessed with both exceptional warrior skills and the arcane powers of the Lord of Magic. This deadly combination makes them cunning leaders and lethal warriors who command their armies with uncanny prescience." It also allows you to take Chaos Lords with MoT but no spells. It's not entirely unfluffy, either. In the Gotrek & Felix books Beastslayer and Dragonslayer, the army leader is a Tzeentch Lord called Arek Daemonclaw- but he's advised by two sorcerers- he's not really a powerful sorcerer himself. MoT lords might have "arcane powers" and "uncanny prescience" but it doesn't manifest itself in chaos psychic powers/spells. In the old Hordes of Chaos list, Tzeentch lords and champions always had magic levels, and sorcerers and sorcerer lords (the army unit entries) couldn't take MoT. But in Warriors of Chaos, this changed- which I think was a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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