esinhorn Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 I was re-reading First Heretic today and noticed an interesting side story that ADB never really got into. Throughout the book there are a few times where it is metioned there was a blow out between Erebus and Argel Tal over Argel Tal not choosing the Chaplancy. But at the end it got really juicy with a conversation between Argel Tal and Lorgar where Lorgar says if he did not stop Argel Tal back in the day,he would of been the first Astartes to of tried to kill a Brother Marine(Erebus). My question to ADB, is this story going to be explained in a future book or if would be so kind as to spill the beens on the what occured. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240287-just-what-did-erebus-do-to-argel-tal-to-piss-him-off/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Severus6 Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 I dont know, maybe I am not reading enough into the situation or I am simply viewing it too simply. The fallout just seemed that the great and mighty Erebus didnt get his way with Argel Tal. He (Erebus) constantly pushes and baits Argel Tal with that faux superiority that resonates from his actions as a Chaplain. Erebus could manipulate a Primarch and other Legions but here is this single Marine that refuses to do what Erebus wants him to do and he does what he feels called to do,...and then proceeds to do it well. How dare he! Its a dangerous precedent when Erebus is trying to turn and manipulate so many,... Severus6 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240287-just-what-did-erebus-do-to-argel-tal-to-piss-him-off/#findComment-2900402 Share on other sites More sharing options...
VulkansFury Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Probably a literary ploy so that we are not on the inside for all the discussions going on between the Chappies and Lorgar. I do think it is interesting that Argel Tal is the only being who Erebus doesn't have his claws in. Also if Argel Tal was a Chaplin we would have had to have someone one else go into the Eye, get cuddly with Daemons, and start the Gal Vorbek Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240287-just-what-did-erebus-do-to-argel-tal-to-piss-him-off/#findComment-2900460 Share on other sites More sharing options...
esinhorn Posted October 15, 2011 Author Share Posted October 15, 2011 The first time I read the book like you I just took the conflict between them as Erebus busted his balls for years because he choose the sword, but the passage I am talking about is at the end of the book it is really really implied that he grabed his sword and was 100% going to try to kill Erebus and was stopped by Lorgar who talked sense into him when he was on his way to actually do the deed. Now I take for granted that Erebus make it hard for him to come up the ranks,but it seems there was one incedent that pushed him over the edge. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240287-just-what-did-erebus-do-to-argel-tal-to-piss-him-off/#findComment-2900478 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saa Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 I dont know, maybe I am not reading enough into the situation or I am simply viewing it too simply. The fallout just seemed that the great and mighty Erebus didnt get his way with Argel Tal. He (Erebus) constantly pushes and baits Argel Tal with that faux superiority that resonates from his actions as a Chaplain. Erebus could manipulate a Primarch and other Legions but here is this single Marine that refuses to do what Erebus wants him to do and he does what he feels called to do,...and then proceeds to do it well. How dare he! Its a dangerous precedent when Erebus is trying to turn and manipulate so many,... Severus6 I have to agree. This is exactly how I saw it. Erebus saw in Argal Tal a future chaplain in the making, and also a future leader ergo a person to manipulate from the ground level within the legion. Of course this is pure conjecture and only the author can answer definitively. Saa Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240287-just-what-did-erebus-do-to-argel-tal-to-piss-him-off/#findComment-2900698 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liliedhe Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Call me paranoid, but I thought it had something to do with Erebus being the one to take Argel away from his family. That exchange there is quite loaded with meaning. Just don't know what it implies... Did Erebus kill the family because they refused to let Argel be taken? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240287-just-what-did-erebus-do-to-argel-tal-to-piss-him-off/#findComment-2900785 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Nope, they gave him willingly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240287-just-what-did-erebus-do-to-argel-tal-to-piss-him-off/#findComment-2900788 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarKnight Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 I think it was at first a feeling of betrayal by Erebus. He and Argel Tal were very close, with Erebus coming to claim him from his family, Erebus was probably the closest to family Argel Tal had, and they were very close. When Argel Tal chose not to follow in Erebus' footsteps of Chaplaincy, I'm sure it hurt him very much. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240287-just-what-did-erebus-do-to-argel-tal-to-piss-him-off/#findComment-2900919 Share on other sites More sharing options...
aquamarine Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 The fallout just seemed that the great and mighty Erebus didnt get his way with Argel Tal...Erebus could manipulate a Primarch and other Legions but here is this single Marine that refuses to do what Erebus wants him to do and he does what he feels called to do,...and then proceeds to do it well. How dare he! Its a dangerous precedent when Erebus is trying to turn and manipulate so many,...Severus6 Yep this is Erebus all over, the horrid little control freak. I have to say I'm rather glad that *something* did not go Erebus' way for once, and really ticked him off. He has come across as the nastiest character in the HH series for me, and pretty much *all* the trouble can be traced back to him in the first instance. Good for Argel Tal :devil: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240287-just-what-did-erebus-do-to-argel-tal-to-piss-him-off/#findComment-2900936 Share on other sites More sharing options...
esinhorn Posted October 15, 2011 Author Share Posted October 15, 2011 No Kor Pheron is the original sin. Erebus is an Astartes while Kor is a Proto that would mean Kor was a Priest and Erebus was probally his alter boy before the Emp since Kor was too old for geneseed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240287-just-what-did-erebus-do-to-argel-tal-to-piss-him-off/#findComment-2900963 Share on other sites More sharing options...
VulkansFury Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Kor Phaeron may have never given up the original faith of Colchis but Erebus was the voice in the ear of dang near every one, especially Horus. He managed to convince the Emperor's favored son that Horus would be forgotten and cast aside (thanks to some Warp magic and a sacrificed super telepath) Kor Phaeron is like the Grand High Pope of Chaos worship. He was ensuring the loyalty and building the Word Bearers for the conflict to come. Erebus was the covert missionary bringing the lodges and worship of the gods quietly into almost half the legions. Erebus just seems so much more insidious to me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240287-just-what-did-erebus-do-to-argel-tal-to-piss-him-off/#findComment-2901045 Share on other sites More sharing options...
esinhorn Posted October 16, 2011 Author Share Posted October 16, 2011 I'll give you that Kor definitely is the spiruital core of worshipping chaos where Erebus is the epitomy of the trecherous aspects of Chaos and is totally trying to get power for himself and not for the glory of Chaos Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240287-just-what-did-erebus-do-to-argel-tal-to-piss-him-off/#findComment-2901355 Share on other sites More sharing options...
c-wrex Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 I think Argel Tal sort of represents the nobility/humanity of his legion. He does what he is ordered, but clearly is one of the only Word Bearers to process what is happening to his legion. Yet, out of love and loyalty to his Primarch and humanity (maybe humanity not soooo much, but some), he continues his course because he legitimately believes he is right. I felt like he recognized the enormity of his error at the killing fields of Isstvan. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240287-just-what-did-erebus-do-to-argel-tal-to-piss-him-off/#findComment-2902916 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethrion Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 A quick aside: is Erebus still at large in the 41st millenium? Is there any "recent" mention of him in the fluff? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240287-just-what-did-erebus-do-to-argel-tal-to-piss-him-off/#findComment-2903448 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Apostle Thirst Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 A quick aside: is Erebus still at large in the 41st millenium? Is there any "recent" mention of him in the fluff? Yes, he is present in the Dark Apostle series. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240287-just-what-did-erebus-do-to-argel-tal-to-piss-him-off/#findComment-2903488 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkApostle Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 A quick aside: is Erebus still at large in the 41st millenium? Is there any "recent" mention of him in the fluff? Yes, he is present in the Dark Apostle series. There's also one or two short stories centered around him in Heroes of the Space Marines IIRC. TDA Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240287-just-what-did-erebus-do-to-argel-tal-to-piss-him-off/#findComment-2903494 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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