Nephos Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Hi I am both new to the hobby and to Space Wolves after taking two weeks to pick which army I wanted to use. I am gonna start ordering Models soon but the problem is im not sure where to start my army. I also wanna know how people feel about successor chapters to Space Wolves? I just don't really like the original color scheme much Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240329-new-to-40k-and-space-wolves/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonSTeR Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Hi I am both new to the hobby and to Space Wolves after taking two weeks to pick which army I wanted to use. I am gonna start ordering Models soon but the problem is im not sure where to start my army. I also wanna know how people feel about successor chapters to Space Wolves? I just don't really like the original color scheme much Firstly welcome to the boards. Where to start with the army is here... Read around, search old threads and see what you can find. With regards to SW successor chapters, if you stick to the canon of teh 40K universe it's a pretty big "no-no" to be honest. The Space Wolves only had one successor chapter and things didn't go to well for them. One of the "cool" things about the Space Wolves is that they don't have successors. However there's nothing wrong with using the SW "counts as" army. As long as your "fluff" gives a reason for deviating from the "normal" Space Marine Codex... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240329-new-to-40k-and-space-wolves/#findComment-2900833 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CainTheHunter Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Well since there are basically no successor chapter, expect for the so called "ill fated Wolf Brothers" on which the information is both scarce and contradictory, the good news with the Space Wolves are that if You (Your Wolf Lord) does not like the colour scheme, You can do whatever any other colour You wish. Yep, Space Wolves are that individualistic. You can do the grey blue, pure grey (pre-heresy), grey-black, grey-red and other variations. In fact, You don't even have to stick to grey, but You will have hard time explaining purple or green colour schemes - but it is still possible :). As for the beginning, Space Wolves battleforce is actually a good start. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240329-new-to-40k-and-space-wolves/#findComment-2900839 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWulfen Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 You could google Space Wolf colour schemes, not all Space Wolves have been painted using the baby blue colour, loads do neutral greys, some do dark blue-greys. I'm sure you will find something that will take your fancy for the scheme you eventually choose to do. Or if you want you could convert to a 13th company army and use the standard SW 'dex, you just need to get chaos parts, which means you can paint the chaos bits and colour you want! Heck, some people even do Blacks, reds and metallics. A person I know even did some desert coloured!!! As for where to start your army, i'm presuming you mean units. Well what I would suggest is get a space wolves pack or two and make some grey hunters and/or blood claws. I would then build up going for terminators, characters and then vehicles. Or you could go for a Space Wolves battle force which is £60 UK pounds, you get 10 Grey Hunters, 10 blood claws, 5 scouts and a drop pod. You could then build around that, adding to and getting rid later on Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240329-new-to-40k-and-space-wolves/#findComment-2900840 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephos Posted October 15, 2011 Author Share Posted October 15, 2011 I am not sure what I wanna use for my scheme yet. I just don't wanna use the grey because to me grey is a very depressing color so I tend to not like it Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240329-new-to-40k-and-space-wolves/#findComment-2900842 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forté Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Woo hoo...more fresh meat for induction to the ways of the Rout. Welcome fellow whelp and watch out for low flying tankards. Take a look at Brother Ramses FAQ 2 as it has lots of really useful topics for new starters. As for successors....none are know to have been successful. Then again there was the 13th cursed founding so which gene seed was used :) Bounce your ideas off those here but be ready for some very honest and blunt comments. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240329-new-to-40k-and-space-wolves/#findComment-2900843 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephos Posted October 15, 2011 Author Share Posted October 15, 2011 Woo hoo...more fresh meat for induction to the ways of the Rout. Welcome fellow whelp and watch out for low flying tankards. Take a look at Brother Ramses FAQ 2 as it has lots of really useful topics for new starters. As for successors....none are know to have been successful. Then again there was the 13th cursed founding so which gene seed was used :) Bounce your ideas off those here but be ready for some very honest and blunt comments. Thanks for the welcome. I figure most people won't like the idea of a successor chapter but I mean honestly I like Space Wolves and I wanna play them but since im the one shelling out the money I wanna paint them whatever colors I please Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240329-new-to-40k-and-space-wolves/#findComment-2900852 Share on other sites More sharing options...
arizonajirt Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Im new to the fang as well. I picked up a SW battle Force and a SM Battle force to start with. with that you get a damn good start. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240329-new-to-40k-and-space-wolves/#findComment-2900858 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CainTheHunter Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 The Space Wolves also have the so called Lost Companies - each with their own Wolf Lord, so there are no limits except Your own imagination. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240329-new-to-40k-and-space-wolves/#findComment-2900861 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephos Posted October 15, 2011 Author Share Posted October 15, 2011 The Space Wolves also have the so called Lost Companies - each with their own Wolf Lord, so there are no limits except Your own imagination. Though if I take a lost company and paint it whatever color I want I still have to call them Space Wolves right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240329-new-to-40k-and-space-wolves/#findComment-2900864 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CainTheHunter Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 The Space Wolves also have the so called Lost Companies - each with their own Wolf Lord, so there are no limits except Your own imagination. Though if I take a lost company and paint it whatever color I want I still have to call them Space Wolves right? You have a problem with that? :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240329-new-to-40k-and-space-wolves/#findComment-2900866 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephos Posted October 15, 2011 Author Share Posted October 15, 2011 The Space Wolves also have the so called Lost Companies - each with their own Wolf Lord, so there are no limits except Your own imagination. Though if I take a lost company and paint it whatever color I want I still have to call them Space Wolves right? You have a problem with that? ;) No I don't I am just asking to clarify Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240329-new-to-40k-and-space-wolves/#findComment-2900868 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CainTheHunter Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 As long as You decide that Your Lost Company is welcome back to the Fang, they are the Space Wolves - no matter how long time ago they "went lost"! With the Space Wolves nothing is set in stone as with, for example, other codex-adherent chapters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240329-new-to-40k-and-space-wolves/#findComment-2900869 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephos Posted October 15, 2011 Author Share Posted October 15, 2011 The point I wanna make though is just because it says there are no known successful successor chapters is why does that instantly have to translate into no sorry there can be none that makes no sense to me. All the chapters of SM people make are not known to be successful because they are not actually in the 40k universe. Actually since people point out they are so head stong and independent to me it doesn't seem like a successor chapter is out of the question Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240329-new-to-40k-and-space-wolves/#findComment-2900879 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CainTheHunter Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 The point I wanna make though is just because it says there are no known successful successor chapters is why does that instantly have to translate into no sorry there can be none that makes no sense to me. All the chapters of SM people make are not known to be successful because they are not actually in the 40k universe. Actually since people point out they are so head stong and independent to me it doesn't seem like a successor chapter is out of the question It's not related to them being headstrong and independent, but to obvious (fluff-wise) difficulties related to the SW geneseed - Canis Helix and the related Curse of Wulfen, which from one side makes them extremely resilient toward Chaos and from the other hand, causes problems with possible genetic manipulations. In other words, SW geneseed is flawed, but that does not preclude them from being the greatest First Founding Chapter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240329-new-to-40k-and-space-wolves/#findComment-2900884 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephos Posted October 15, 2011 Author Share Posted October 15, 2011 The point I wanna make though is just because it says there are no known successful successor chapters is why does that instantly have to translate into no sorry there can be none that makes no sense to me. All the chapters of SM people make are not known to be successful because they are not actually in the 40k universe. Actually since people point out they are so head stong and independent to me it doesn't seem like a successor chapter is out of the question It's not related to them being headstrong and independent, but to obvious (fluff-wise) difficulties related to the SW geneseed - Canis Helix and the related Curse of Wulfen, which from one side makes them extremely resilient toward Chaos and from the other hand, causes problems with possible genetic manipulations. In other words, SW geneseed is flawed, but that does not preclude them from being the greatest First Founding Chapter. Yes but the Blood Angels gene seed is also flawed but people make successor chapters from them. All I am saying is that if I am the one shelling out hundreds of dollars so that i can play this game and that I like Space Wolves as an army that I should be allowed to make a successor chapter from them if I want to Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240329-new-to-40k-and-space-wolves/#findComment-2900887 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Space Wolves don't have successors. They have Lost Companies. The reason they don't have successors is because they tried it once, via the Wolf Brothers chapter. Problem was, the Wolf Brothers went mad/feral/deranged, etc because when the Space Wolves tried to branch off their geneseed, it mutanted or became unstable, etc and the entire Wolf Brother chapter became wiped out (reportedly down to the last man). From that, the Space Wolf chapter took a lesson and never made another successor chapter. If you read Battle for the Fang, it makes a better argument as to the hows and whys, but it's also not in the codex, so people like to argue its validity. As for where to start, go here. If you find grey depressing, then either you didn't read the SW fluff or you're not feeling the SW vibe, imo. SWs are the elite hunters of the Imperium. They're predators, killers. They're no longer the rock'em sock 'em "Space Vikings" of 2E.. they're darker, more feral, more serious. Sure, they still have Viking-esque roots (ale drinking, etc) but don't let that epitomize them. Their grey armour is striking. It's not some wacky yellow like Imperial Fists or electric blue like Ultramarines. SWs come from Fenris, an ice planet. By most, it would probably be considered inhabitable. That's how Russ intended it. He didn't want our recruits picked from some soft-bellied pups. He wanted hardened, warrior-born men trained in survival tactics from birth. Men who knew the value of subtly on the hunt, where outlandish colors could potentially get you killed. That's why the grey. It's not depressing.. it's pragmatism, not flash. Edit --- You can still make a DIY chapter using SW rules, but you should have your own fluff to support your reasons. And no one will ever accept that they're a successor chapter. Again, that's why our fluff allows for Lost Companies. They can still claim to be Wolves, but have been "Lost" (via hunting down a prey for a millenia, or travelling the warp, or stranded on a space hulk, etc) for so long that their colors/markings/complete aesthetic changed over time to reflect their new leadership or possible hierarchies and other issues that would crop up from being disconnected from their home for so long. Oh, and welcome to the Fang. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240329-new-to-40k-and-space-wolves/#findComment-2900891 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephos Posted October 15, 2011 Author Share Posted October 15, 2011 Space Wolves don't have successors. They have Lost Companies. The reason they don't have successors is because they tried it once, via the Wolf Brothers chapter. Problem was, the Wolf Brothers went mad/feral/deranged, etc because when the Space Wolves tried to branch off their geneseed, it mutanted or became unstable, etc and the entire Wolf Brother chapter became wiped out (reportedly down to the last man). From that, the Space Wolf chapter took a lesson and never made another successor chapter. If you read Battle for the Fang, it makes a better argument as to the hows and whys, but it's also not in the codex, so people like to argue its validity. As for where to start, go here. If you find grey depressing, then either you didn't read the SW fluff or you're not feeling the SW vibe, imo. SWs are the elite hunters of the Imperium. They're predators, killers. They're no longer the rock'em sock 'em "Space Vikings" of 2E.. they're darker, more feral, more serious. Sure, they still have Viking-esque roots (ale drinking, etc) but don't let that epitomize them. Their grey armour is striking. It's not some wacky yellow like Imperial Fists or electric blue like Ultramarines. SWs come from Fenris, an ice planet. By most, it would probably be considered inhabitable. That's how Russ intended it. He didn't want our recruits picked from some soft-bellied pups. He wanted hardened, warrior-born men trained in survival tactics from birth. Men who knew the value of subtly on the hunt, where outlandish colors could potentially get you killed. That's why the grey. It's not depressing.. it's pragmatism, not flash. Edit --- You can still make a DIY chapter using SW rules, but you should have your own fluff to support your reasons. And no one will ever accept that their a successor chapter. Again, that's why our fluff allows for Lost Companies. They can still claim to be Wolves, but have been "Lost" (via hunting down a prey for a millenia, or travelling the warp, or stranded on a space hulk, etc) for so long that their colors/markings/complete aesthetic changed over time to reflect their new leadership or possible hierarchies and other issues that would crop up from being disconnected from their home for so long. Oh, and welcome to the Fang. Okay so by what your saying is that I can say that they were stranded on a planet when there ship was disabled by a Chaos Marine ship. They couldn't talk to the outside world do to a strong magnetic storm constantly going on said planet. Lets name the planet Geass. And that living on Geass and no being able to get out has made them change their names and colors to help them fit in with the natives? So I could call them the Wolves of Geass and paint them whatever color I want and can still use Space Wolves rules? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240329-new-to-40k-and-space-wolves/#findComment-2900899 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Okay so by what your saying is that I can say that they were stranded on a planet when there ship was disabled by a Chaos Marine ship. They couldn't talk to the outside world do to a strong magnetic storm constantly going on said planet. Lets name the planet Geass. And that living on Geass and no being able to get out has made them change their names and colors to help them fit in with the natives? So I could call them the Wolves of Geass and paint them whatever color I want and can still use Space Wolves rules? In the strictest sense of what a Lost Company is, yes. You can do that. Will other Space Wolf players approve? Depends on the player I guess. Basically, your idea allows for the use of the Space Wolf codex and still maintains the fluff of possible Lost Companies, but it's walking the line with the name-change as most SW Lost Companies still maintain their heritage as "Space Wolves" -- or Vlka Fenryka, depending on which fluff you subscribe to -- even if their aesthetics change (colors, markings, trophy types, etc) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240329-new-to-40k-and-space-wolves/#findComment-2900906 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephos Posted October 15, 2011 Author Share Posted October 15, 2011 I honestly get what your saying. I still say that your making an unofficial chapter when you make one so you should be allowed to seeing as every other SM army can and 40k is a huge vast universe so it should be allowed. I guess its a lost company then. Though the name will be changed and if other players hate it then ill just play the ones that don't mind Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240329-new-to-40k-and-space-wolves/#findComment-2900913 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 I honestly get what your saying. I still say that your making an unofficial chapter when you make one so you should be allowed to seeing as every other SM army can and 40k is a huge vast universe so it should be allowed. I guess its a lost company then. Though the name will be changed and if other players hate it then ill just play the ones that don't mind That's one of the reasons Wolves get their own codex. Yes, the universe is vast, and yes there are successor chapters. The Ultramarine geneseed was the easiest to clone, so they have the most successors. Dark Angels have successors, but not as widespread, possibly due to their near-brush with Chaos? Blood Angels have successors, but they don't want to make too many b/c their geneseed is apparently flawed, though they seem to be making do. Space Wolves have tried, and their geneseed mutated so badly that they will never lose honor like that again. There's secret works to fix the mutation (as described in Battle for the Fang, but the topic is so anathema to the Wolves that only the highest priests even know about it. It's the geneseed that makes Wolves what they are. Their tactics, hierarchical structures, mentalities, all stem from the geneseed and it is so completely diverse from other Space Marines that they were given their own codex by GW. Even Grey Knights (currently) have no successors, though they're working on an Exorcist chapter, but it's not inconceivable to not have a successor. Ok, just did a search.. this should help you out WAY better than what's been said here so far. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240329-new-to-40k-and-space-wolves/#findComment-2900930 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephos Posted October 15, 2011 Author Share Posted October 15, 2011 I still say that every chapter that is made by a person is UNOFFICIAL and that therefore I can make an unofficial successor chapter. Because honestly if I can't make my own name and have my own color scheme and make them a nice back story to be a successor chapter without catching :devil: about it then ill find something else besides SW to play as my army Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240329-new-to-40k-and-space-wolves/#findComment-2900939 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 I still say that every chapter that is made by a person is UNNECESSARILY LARGE FONT and that therefore I can make an unofficial successor chapter. Because honestly if I can't make my own name and have my own color scheme and make them a nice back story to be a successor chapter without catching :devil: about it then ill find something else besides SW to play as my army Ok. Look, what you're trying to do is abandon fluff for the sake of making your own army. That's fine. But coming here and trying to make it work, you're going to meet with criticism. If you just want your own My Little Pony or Hello Kitty Chapter, then go for it. I know a guy who made an entire Ork army with a McDonalds theme. But by coming here, expressing your ideas and concerns, it sounds as though you're asking for permission to make a successor chapter and ignore all the fluff that has been indoctrinated into the game for over two decades and that's something that I imagine most of us will be tight-lipped about. You can do whatever you want with your money and this game. It won't match fluff, but as you've seemingly expressed, you don't care. Good for you. Enjoy the codex, enjoy the game, but don't expect Wolf players (or any player that prefers true fluff) to accept it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240329-new-to-40k-and-space-wolves/#findComment-2900942 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephos Posted October 15, 2011 Author Share Posted October 15, 2011 Then I won't play those players I honestly didn't expect wanting to make my own stuff being such a big dang deal my god. I could freaking sit here and make up a story that still fits into the fluff of making a successor chapter but no you or according to you everyone that plays 40k won't accept that. I could sit here and make a 4 paragraph story about my chapter that would fit into the fluff or it all but like you said apparently that is unacceptable to all 40k players. edit - It says in said fluff that their are no known successful ones not that their never will be. If I can actually make a good story, that fits alongside said fluff, that makes a successor chapter I don't see why I can't. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240329-new-to-40k-and-space-wolves/#findComment-2900958 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Like I said before you threw your temper tantrum, read this. It just might help. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240329-new-to-40k-and-space-wolves/#findComment-2900959 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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